I think that you had posted before that you had thoughts of an EC (So do I) in your future. I also went with a TI so that my wife and or kids could join me. My wife is also waiting for warmer weather. So based on thoughts of an EC or ultra-type race\event I can see where weight and heft of the boat come in to play if you are doing the event solo.
Has anyone tried adding 40-60 or so pounds of water ballast in the nose? I was thinking about using a 5 gallon water bag in hatch and pushed forward with something (the big pool noodles?) when I am out solo. That way the new wave piercing bow can do its job instead of smacking the hull on tops of the waves. In one of my sea kayaks I am faster with a little weight in the forward hatch. Of course that doesnt make the boat any lighter.
I got the TI to take the wife out as well. She goes about 1 time out of 10 so I solo it a lot.
I like the front seat and like to hike out on my Hakas.
I find some ballast in the stern tie down area helps minimize nose diving, I tie down a construction cinder block there about 35-40 pounds that far back is about right for me.
Gives me front seat control with balance easy to put on and off and didn't even loose it when I turtled!
Rob
_________________ Rob
2014 TI Papaya Aussieonyak Haka mods GaryInWI seat mod Yangler tiller extension KayakingBob Aka tether Polytarp Jib
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:30 am Posts: 429 Location: Gulf Shores, Alabama
hawk232 wrote:
One of these days I need to accept that my wife will never sail with me as much as she says she will
We just bought a TI a few months back, since then she has been out in it three times and keeps telling me she is waiting for it to warm up. I know her idea of a good day... light winds, clear skies and HOT. pretty much my worst kind of day!!
This got me thinking that I might be better suited to an AI2 (with tramps for when she may want to go).
Would love to hear thoughts of those with both or who went from an TI to an AI2
After years of owning an AI, I purchased a TI for my wife to be more comfortable and to camp with me in the Everglades occasionally. However she did not like the camping and only would go occasionally with the TI. While the TI was a good boat, I really missed the AI. And since the newer AI has the beautiful seats, the bigger hull and wider hatches, and especially the bigger sail and dagger board she finally told me one day that I should get myself a new AI and that she'll be content sitting on the tramps and hakas. A week later I had a new AI and while I liked the TI, I absolutely love the new AI. It's an amazing boat. It seems every bit as fast as a TI and then some. I've raced quite a few TI's and haven't lost yet but I pedal like crazy plus it's common knowledge the red AI's are much faster. The AI2's lighter weight and shorter length, plus the bigger rear cargo area are more positive reasons for me. I never liked sailing in the rear seat of the TI (other than less splashing in the face).
hawk232 wrote:
maybe I need to try to find someone with an AI2 and swap rides for a day...
Maybe half a day : ) I can meet you on the Dunedin causeway sometime. But I'm still working like mad on modifying the Hobie Spinnaker to work 100% tangle free which will be complete by the end of this week. Hopefully successfully but we'll see. So in a week or two I'll be up for a sail around honeymoon island if you're interested and you can try the AI2.
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:19 pm Posts: 98 Location: Crystal River, FL
gotta love forums, I had a whole reply typed up, submitted it and it disappeared!
I prefer sailing from the front too but one time I was running back in 4-5' seas (couldn't see over the next wave when at the bottom of a wave) when I got to the top of the wave and lost control (rudder came out of the water). luckily the boat only turned 10 or so degrees and I didn't broach!! I now sit in the back seat and this has not happened again. It is also easier to fish from the back seat (to fold the amas in when landing a fish).
Jim, I will definitely take you up on that! Let me know when you are ready and I will try to make it happen.
_________________ 2015 Outback- dune with sail kit 2015 TI- dune- sold 2015 AI2- Hibiscus- should probably sell... 2018 AI2- Dune
A new AI weights as much as an old TI. I can handle and rooftop my 2008 AI. I cannot handle and would not rooftop a new AI or old TI. I roll my old AI across a campground, across a street, up a board walk, and across soft sand on 42cm beech wheels to the beach for setup by myself. My wife also uses the AI without all the extra's as just a kayak. I read that the newer models are to high and tippy for this use. A heavier boat that requires a trailer and launching ramp opens up a lot of bigger boat options, also parking a car and trailer vs just the car restricts many launching options. I transport, when needed, on the roof of my 4 door Ford Focus hatchback. I do not need a 60k SUV. Now for a Carbon Fiber 90lb AI with Foils !!! until then, I keep my old AI
2016 AI Fully Rigged Weight: 185 lbs / 84 kg 2010 AI Fully Rigged Weight: 115 lbs / 52.16 kg 2010 TI Total Rigged Weight= 190lbs. / 86.18kg
Last edited by 1776 on Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:33 am, edited 3 times in total.
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm Posts: 3323 Location: South Florida
Last Nov or so, I bought a new TI. I had a choice, a 2016 TI or a new, out of the box 2014 TI. I bought the 2014 TI because of the weight and handles (the 2016 does not have side handles.) I and my wife use the Hobie i-cushion with the 2014 bucket seats--they are fine. I have the 2015 AI 2 with the new seats. I don't feel I'm missing anything with the 2014 bucket seats. Of course, the 2014 cloth seats weigh much less than the new 2015 seats. Weight is everything with these boats, especially when camping.
Keith
_________________ 2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am Posts: 3059 Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
1776: BTW what does 1776 mean (I'm canadian (just kidding).
The reason we have a TI vs an AI is a complex and sad story. We almost always when we go to get together's have way too many people, and too few boats (like flies attracted to honey). Here is a pic from a recent outing (nine people that day, I could only get 5-6 on board at a time, I was in submarine mode most of the time (boat underwater,,, (what I call Nautilus mode)).
We also have a place in Key West and always take our boat along, same problem always way too many people wanting to go out snorkeling than what I have boat for. We used to have a 24 ft Sea Ray but could no longer afford to keep it up (gigantic money pit in Florida, just dry storage is $400 bucks a month, not even mentioning the $80 grand for the boat and maint, and filling that 80 gallon tank every weekend). We took up kayaking many years ago, we started out with an Oasis and two Revo 13's all with the Hobie sail kits. Problem was my wifes and my abilities vary wildly, with separate kayaks she would run out of gas (energy), and I would typically tow her the five miles or so back to launch. Plus it always took me twice as long to get two complete kayaks off the car (by myself), and get them all setup and ready to go vs one tandem. Yea we know all tandems are always bigger and bulkier than any single (doesn't matter what brand or type, they just are). We are trailer campers and travel all over the country with our camper at times (always with kayaks), actually we wore out 3 GMC Yukon Denali's doing that. The problem with trailering is the trailer uses the hitch, so you can't use a trailer, your stuck with car topping. Here are a couple pics of some of our setups:
This is us on our way to our other house in Key West (350 miles away), there is no place to park a trailer anywhere in Key West unless you want to pay $2.50/hr for parking (just the trailer, you have to pay $2.50/hr for your car too), plus our property has no room for a trailer, so we gotta car top (the boat is up there for sometimes a month at a time while we are there (just goes along for the ride, doesn't cost extra for parking when it's on the roof). We had to use the same setup when pulling the camper (less the beach bikes of course).
Previous to getting our TI we had 3 kayaks on the roof (one Oasis and two revos), for around 250,000 miles traveling around the country with our camper dropping in any body of water we could find and some we shouldn't have been in. One in particular was near a dam on a small lake, down a 40 degree grass incline maybe 200 ft long, yep we just jumped in the kayaks and slid down the grassy hill (it was a hoot, but probably very dangerous). What goes down must come up (didn't think about that one in advance), we ended up hooking a rope to the bumper and towing the empty kayaks back up the hill, (just a funny story).
Here is our most recent setup, we only buy GMC Denali's, this is our new Sierra Denali with our new camper on the way to Lake Hartwell GA for a week vacation recently.
Keep in mind we gave up on single kayaks a long time ago because I got tired of setting soooo many boats up and having to tow them all back to launch in a line because everyone else was pooped out (yea the kids too (the internet generation (lol)). Truth be known it's in my opinion easier to load my TI onto the cartop than it ever was to load our old Oasis (the TI hull alone is maybe 10-15 lbs heavier than the Oasis and a couple feet longer), I think because it is longer with more hand holds, it's easier to load (always by myself (because all the kids are in the camper in the AC, on their Ipads)). I got hurt loading the Oasis a few times (strained muscles, but never with the TI's).
Yea I'm out there alone most of the time (because the kids are in the camper on their Ipads in the AC), but once in a while I get takers. Eventually we sold all our other kayaks (basically because they sat in the garage unused), and only have the TI now. Comically I have had as many as 8 people along wanting to go out offshore snorkeling, obviously we didn't go out very far, I have a 4 person inflatable dingy that I tow behind the TI (for people and gear (things like giant beer and food coolers, scuba tanks, and a kitchen sink). Then I have the extra kayaks either hold onto the dingy, or tie to each other in a long line behind the dingy (the most kayaks we have towed was 4 at a time plus the dingy). I also quite often end up towing other TI's (the most ever was two at a time). Once we get to the destination everyone breaks off and does their own thing. I know of no other complex sailboat out there that you can cartop (try getting a 450lb Windrider 17 up on your roof (lol). All just my opinions, it's the TI that pushes all our buttons. I can't think of anything you can't use the darn thing for (including solo, for when my kids and wife are in the camper with the AC on with their Ipads, missing out on real life (lol)) FE
Here is a recent video of us up in Lake Hartwell GA, the lake is huge and 40 miles long, crystal clear and the water was around 84 degrees, personally I had a blast, went out sailing twice a day exploring, we parked the boat right at the campsite on the beach for the week 30ft away.
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am Posts: 2893 Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
I don't know about 1776, but here in Australia, there is quite a large town up in Queensland called 1770, named after the second occasion British explorer Captain James Cook called in to that spot during his exploration of the east coast of the country. Plenty more useless bits of info available, you only have to ask!
_________________ Tony Stott 2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:19 pm Posts: 98 Location: Crystal River, FL
Well i thought i might revisit my old thread for anyone else who might find themselves with a similar question. I sold the TI about 2 years ago. I have since bought a sea pearl (and love it) but missed the fun of the AI. A couple of weeks ago i bought a 2015 AI.
my original question of AI2 vs TI- my opinion now: The AI2 is a way better suited boat for me. The convenience of everything being right at my finger tips, the boat feels so much better balanced (even with the ballast in the TI it would slam a bit). It may not be quite as fast,i cant say for sure yet (i did hit 10.4 mph my very first time taking it out though). Overall, i feel the AI2 is a better boat FOR ME solo, than the TI was.
_________________ 2015 Outback- dune with sail kit 2015 TI- dune- sold 2015 AI2- Hibiscus- should probably sell... 2018 AI2- Dune
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:38 pm Posts: 199 Location: Pennsylvania - Philly Area
Love the post!
As for the original question....AI vs TI..... I have owned both. Sold my AI 2015 and picked up a TI 2016. Main reasons....TI is a bit faster and handles the water that I sail in (offshore, waves, ports/rivers with tidal currents) a bit better. I found the AI nosed dived / submerged in waves a bit. The TI can "slap" on top of the waves when sailing from the back....but I much prefer this compared to sticking the nose under the waves with the AI. I have beefed up the TI for offshore sailing and added a small outboard (2.5 hp Suzuki) for added safety. Just got back from a nice frostbite sail in the Atlantic Ocean off Cape Helopen, DE - the TI performed well in the frigid Atlantic waters. I agree this is an individual preference and depends on what type of sailing you do.
_________________ Jim Hobie TI 2022 - Offshore rig - Outboard - having fun! Hobie TI 2021 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold Hobie Kona 2014 Hobie AI 2015 - sold Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am Posts: 3059 Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Yea we came up with the same conclusion, when solo in small water, (ie... lakes, rivers), the AI has the edge, (the TI kayak goin up a 12 ft wide river is a little gamely, but then again so was our old oasis, (or any tandem for that matter)). We ended up selling all our single kayaks, and only used tandems, our situation with our TI being our only boat, (our family boat), when desired we could take out 4 people when needed, or use solo, just making the boat that much more versatile to us. Making the TI our choice, the weight difference didn’t mean much to us. Either boat is too heavy to car top easily, and with a trailer the weight means nothing, (same effort to launch/retrieve either boat with a trailer). Just stuff to think about FE
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:19 pm Posts: 98 Location: Crystal River, FL
oh yea and trailering was something i forgot to mention. the TI was too long for the back of a truck, the AI fits in the truck with a bed extender just fine, so thats one less trailer to maintain, register etc... that is a HUGE perk for me!! (i have 6 other trailers i already have to "deal" with).
Just to be totally clear, this is my really old post. I am no longer trying to make the decision and only brought it back up since I was the OP with the question, and now i have had both...
_________________ 2015 Outback- dune with sail kit 2015 TI- dune- sold 2015 AI2- Hibiscus- should probably sell... 2018 AI2- Dune
Jumping on this thread a little late, but I can give you my perspective after switching between both TI and AI twice... and considering a third.
The first times, I switched between AI models, and finally moved to a TI. Loved the TI, nice boat, but... back got hurt. Since at the time I was launching exclusively from fine sand beaches, it was easy to correlate my back problems to hauling the TI around. Beaches have this "feature", by which after you get out of the water, you always have a hill of sand to overcome before you get to the parking lot (unless you live in the Maldives, or so . Doctor was not tentative: "get rid of the thing or you will have an imploded disk on your back"
So, sold the TI (more properly I gave away to a lucky buyer), got a new AI, and I have to say I love its much as I used to love the TI, and the AI before that: * Advantage - The AI much lighter, even launching from a beach * Advantage - AI is easier to store in the garage * Advantage - Fit to purpose: I sail alone (with a buddy who has his own AI) * Equally easy to trailer (Malone trailer) * Equally enjoyable to sail (albeit with a slightly different profile) * Equally enjoyable with my two grandkids (tramps-bound) * Equally robust platform for whatever I want to do (I don't camp on it, and I don't fish except occasionally) * Bonus: I moved, and my launching is now exclusively via ramp and trailer: almost boring with an AI, waaaaaay too simple. * The only disadvantage is if I ever got someone to sail with me... which has never come up since I have it.
BUT... There is a last twist to this story, however: a good friend, who used to co-pilot my 32ft sailboat with me (which I ended up selling short after he moved away), is moving back to my area! Of course, that has me now looking to sell the 2018 AI, only a few months old, mint condition and fully equipped (including Spinnaker), and get... yes, you guessed it... a *new TI*, so we can both sail it. Heck, since now I launch from ramps, the weight of the TI will NOT be a problem any more, even if I have to go it alone.
Is there a moral to this story? Absolutely: the moral is that it really doesn't matter, you will have the best times with either of them. They are both FABULOUS boats, design-improved to perfection, and robust as they come. Pure, unadulterated fun. I wish you luck on your decision, have TONS of fun whichever direction you go.
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