AI2 or TI for solo adventure challenges?

I would like to enter adventure challenges such as those by Water Tribe. I plan to do them SOLO. Which is more competitive for such events, the AI2 (2015, 2016)or a new or used Tandem Island such as 2013 through 2016? And why do you have this opinion?

Thanks in advance for your comments or referrals.

Capt Bones

I'm a TI guy not an AI guy, my opinion of the previous version of the AI was it was a very very old design, and the TI design was way superior, so that's what we ended up with (the TI).
I usually go out every Saturday and unfortunately my wife works saturdays so I'm typically out there solo pedaling my TI mostly for exercise every weekend 10-15 miles a week, Though I have it tweaked just a little to overcome the typical low winds we have around here, I much prefer traveling 8-10 mph over the normal 2-3 mph when pedaling in no wind.
Over the last 6 yrs owning TI's (we are on our 3rd TI) I've learned a lot about them.

From my understanding the new and improved AI-2 is way better than the AI-1 and most of the improvements that made the TI great were incorporated into the AI-2, making it a darn nice boat.

Of course the TI is large and heavy, however a long time ago my wife and I switched to tandem kayaks vs singles, and accept the fact the tandems are always larger and heavier vs singles. It would take me less time to rig our old Oasis sailing kayak than it did to setup two revo kayaks. Also there is a big difference between mine and my wifes physical capabilities, with solo kayaks pretty much everytime we went out I had to tow my wifes kayak 5 miles back to launch because she was exhausted. With the tandems I just pedal us home and she rides along pretending to pedal (I don't mind I enjoy the company).
As a kayak the TI is by far the fastest kayak in Hobies fleet (mostly because of it's length) and glides along effortlessly even with just one peddler better than any Hobie I have owned (we have owned 8 now).

Solo with no gear or additional weight both kayaks (AI2 and TI) are very capable, however when you start loading them down with people and gear they slow down quite a bit.

My opinion is if you load down an AI-2 with enough gear for a big expedition like the EC, or you load down a TI with the same weights and loads, the TI will do better based on my own experience.

The max weight capacities on these boats is pretty accurate 400 lbs for the AI-2 and 600 lbs for the TI. Yea you can exceed those weights a little but the boats become slugs when overloaded.

The weight of the AI-2 has increased quite a bit over the older AI-1, so there is not a lot of difference in weight between the AI-2 and the TI, not enough to notice anyway.
My feeling is if I had an AI-2 I can't ever bring any passengers, with the TI I can always bring other people (up to 4), making the TI the perfect family boat when not being used solo for expeditions. My opinion is the tramp option is a must have option (we have never had our TI's out without the tramps mounted in over 6 yrs now).

You can't load an AI-2 down like this (5-6 people), of course the boat is overloaded, and is not going anywhere fast, but it's still great fun in calm conditions.



Of course if you plan to travel great distances it' might not be a bad idea to soup it up just a little for when in light winds (under 7 mph winds). I typically pedal mine 10-15 miles a week 15 miles at 2mph comes out to 8 hrs on the water in the hot 90+ deg sun here in Florida with no wind on you to cool you down (heat stroke). I much prefer to average 8-10 mph, so I have a nice breeze on me and can get my 15 miles done in a couple hrs. THis video was taken on the same day as the photo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk2-5Upi_Dk


If your pretty fit and have these fins you don't need the motors.



All just my opinions
FE

FE,

Thanks for taking the time to respond, I appreciate your time and effort. I recently found class results for the EC and there seems to be many more TI's then AI's. Your info has helped me understand why. Thanks again.

Bones

FE,

Thanks for taking the time to respond, I appreciate your time and effort. I recently found class results for the EC and there seems to be many more TI's then AI's. Your info has helped me understand why. Thanks again.

Bones

Whoa FE where did you get thiose massive fins from?! What have I missed?

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Simon

I believe those are for the new Mirage Eclipse....

Sneaky! How do they perform on a Hobie Island? More/less efficient?

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Simon

You have to be careful with them, way more force required if they are your only means of propulsion (if peddling only forget it). However I'm into tri-power or tri-bred propulsion so my pedals only provide 20-25% of my propulsion needs at way higher speeds. With the regular fins I'm exceeding their usable range, with these fins I'm hoping to still get some propulsion at faster speeds, hopefully still within the abilities of my legs. With the eclipse you are using your body weight to aid with the peddling effort. I'm planning to use my sails and supplemental propulsion to decrease the peddling effort. Basically I don't ever plan to start up peddling from a dead stop, or just use those pedals only. When the need comes up, I'll just jump into the other seat and use the regular mirage drive. Well thats the plan anyway. there is give and take with everything.
FE

FE, are you getting better propulsion at higher speeds? How much more do they cost than our turbo fins? Wonder what it would feel like with a mix of one eclipse and one turbo fin.

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Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

I have both a 2014 TI & a 2015 AI (AI 2). The TI is a heavy boat & much heavier with camping gear & supplies. If you are young (? <60) & strong, you can probably handle it. Remember, you have to get it above the high tide line frequently. Personally, I would never consider taking my TI solo on a WaterTribe Challenge. I'm truly a senior member of any trip I do. I am going to take my TI in the 2017 Everglades Challenge because I will have a 2nd, experienced person in the boat. As FE says, just my 2 cents.

Most Hobie TIs did NOT finish the 2016 Everglades Challenge. 2 TIs, that did finish, traveled together. Triman, solo, did finish with his TI.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

The Eclipse's Mirage Drive is the same mechanism, right.... i.e. is there a breakage consideration with putting the bigger fins on an AI2' Mirage Drive?

If not, I might have to try it.... Cool as it is, I find the Mirage Drive wanting in the area of feelgood..... kind of like riding a bicycle with 155 mm cranks when the rider needs 180 mm cranks.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

hi. this post is some months old. I wonder if anybody have more experiences to report about using the eclipse fins on an Adventure Island. how much power do they give? how much heavier is to paddle? tx

I have a highly modified tri-powered TI, (pedal, sail, and aux propulsion) so my TI cruises at much higher than normal cruising speeds (8-10mph) in very light winds (3-7mph wind). Since it's a pedal boat I always pedal 100% of the time, (for exercise).
Once you get above 8mph the standard mirage drives no longer provide any useful propulsion, and they tend to flutter a bit unless you have spanking new fins, also the standard fins get all stretched out pretty quickly and have to be replaced often, (my boat tops out around 15mph (in decent winds)), but man oh man it's an exhausting handful at speeds over 9mph, so I don't do that much, (plus my 60-80mpg goes out the window at high speed). Also the strain on the boat itself is too much, (way outside the design envelope of the boat itself).
I have one set of turbo fins and one set of Eclipse flow 90 fins (they both cost the same and both fit on a standard mirage drive.
The turbo fins are TPE or TPV (stretchy rubber), and the flow 90 fins are likely a TPO (more plastickey (if thats a word), thus less likely to stretch out and fatigue at higher speeds and loads.
If used for primary propulsion you will likely go thru a lot more cables because the pedaling effort is considerably higher. I don't recommend doing that (you will kill your legs).
We also kayak a lot (without the AMA's, motors, and big sail sets), I only use the turbo fins when solo peddling.
I used to run a cable/pully setup so I could pedal both mirage drives solo from the front seat, the peddling effort of the eclipse fins is very similar (a real leg killer), when used for primary propulsion.
Like I said I don't use mine that way, what I have suits my unique purpose, (which is not normal).
Keep in mind on an Eclipse you have your entire body weight to power the SUP, (exploiting gravity). Clever Hobie Engineers.....

My next plan is to put my cable/pully setup back on (so I can power both mirage drives solo), mount flow 90 fins on both drives. Then add a second set of pedal arms mounted at 90 degrees to the current pedals. so I can stand up and pedal my TI (exploiting gravity with my immense body weight (lol)). Just got to remember to duck when I tack (lol). Obviously I'll be filling the crank arms with re-enforcing rods and epoxy, and replacing the stainless cables with custom built spectra cables, I will also likely need to fill my mirage pockets in the hull with silicone (to lessen the strain on the hull, (mirage pockets), basically spray the mirage pocket with mold release spray, pump in a bunch of fairly hard silicone caulk, then pop the mirage drive in and let the silicone setup.
Everything will be removable, so when it doesn't work, I can take it all back off and throw on the big pile of all my other useless inventions, (huge pile). Hopin to be able to pedal at 6-8 mph for hours on end, just using my body weight with just pedal power alone. When combined with my wing tech, and hibrid power I'm hoping for 12mph cruise speed at 120mpg (fingers crossed), It likely won't work but I always have a blast designing and building all this totally useless crap.

Having an 'extreme obese' BMI (what the higi machine at the grocery store says) has it's advantages (lol).
My correct height is supposed to be 6'7" according to my weight, I'm currently 5'6" (used to be 5'9"), been workin 40 yrs to get to my correct height.
FE

yes the origin of my question about the eclipse finns was that i am also a very big fellow height 6.3 weight 240 lbs. and i have very strong legs cause my previoys fav sport was mountain biking.
the mirage drive is probably designed for a medium size person cause it's the same for everybody, so i though that maybe i could have a leg strenght than could easily move a heavier pedal and give more power to the boat.
moreover i have a 2011 AI that is lighter than your TI
from what you say the eclipse is not good also for my situation.

when i sail at a speed faster than 6 knots i usually stop pedalling. i dot remove the drive from it's seat i just keep it open but since i dont have a second sail i rareky sail faster than 10 knots and when i reach that sppeed i prefer to furl.
i wonder if in your opinion this can damage the finns (that in my case have a not perfect border) maybe ut's better to remove the drive when u sail fast?

It can't hurt to try them, they are available from Hobie for the same price as turbo fins. Worst case if you push them too hard you will snap the cables, then you know to back off just a little. I don't try to win any races, I just pedal at a moderate pace, something I can maintain for ten hrs if needed (basically walking pace).
I never pull my drives either, I can't tell any difference in speed with the mirage drive in or out.
I figure my feet are right there anyway, might as well pedal lightly, even if it does nothing.
FE