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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:12 am 
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rrcbob wrote:
pro10is wrote:
rrcbob wrote:
Great info, thanks. I ran across a mounting approach on FB where the 403 is attached farther up the side of the TI rather than right at the stern. I’m wondering what the performance differences might be for this mounting approach. This has some appeal to me as I can’t accommodate any more boat length at my storage location. I have a picture but don’t seem to be able to post it (or just don’t know how).

Before you go through the trouble of mounting the 403 on the side, please be aware that it very easily pops off the horizontal shaft for trailering and storing. So if you don't have enough room to accommodate any more length at your storage location, you can simply remove it. I did this for years.



Here's the link to pictures of the side-mount approach I saw on FB. Thoughts? It seems a little less exposed than hanging it off the stern.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WuZfm3poV9wHkPhM9

That looks great. Please let us know how it performs.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:26 am 
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maltrease wrote:
I wanted to give an update on my usage of the 403 with the solar panel charging. Everything worked great for about a month. I'd use about 2/3 of the battery on an 8 mile round trip to the gulf and back. The solar panel would fully charge the battery in about 2 days so as long as I waited a day between trip it was ready to go again.

I thought that my approach would greatly extend the life of the system, never having to disconnect a cable and creating opportunities for water and corrosion to mess things up. Unfortunately, there is something I didn't account for with the design... rain.

1.) I discovered the battery had water inside and wasn't charging properly. I contacted Torqueedo and said it was strange since I hadn't even taken it out on the water in over a week but there had been heavy rains. I also included a picture - https://ibb.co/kuMmsK - showing the setup which I thought was a good way to use the system.

2.) Torqeedo wrote back to say the battery is IP67 rated and if its exposed to water longer then 30 minutes, including rain, then it would be ruined. They sent me a box to return the battery so they could check for a manufacturing defect.

3.) Battery was returned to Torqeedo, no manufacturing defect was discovered so it won't be replaced under the warranty. They did offer to replace it for $30 less then it would cost me to buy a new one online...

4.) I asked for my broken battery to be returned to me, so an electronic friend of mine could mess around with it, maybe salvage some parts for his projects but Torqeedo had already disposed of my battery.

I'll end up buying a new battery vs. accepting their $30 discount. It was pretty disappointing that they were not more helpful and wouldn't even send me my broken battery back!

Since I have to buy a new battery I'm going to go ahead and get the 900 Watt version. That will give me a huge buffer of usage between when I need the power and the slow trickle recharge from the sun. Do you guys have any suggestions on how I can protect the battery from the deadly water in the sky? My current line of thinking is to get a medium size cooler and keep the battery in that. I'd cut a whole for the cables to come out and put some kind of rain cover over it. I'm definitely open to alternative ideas.

The 'silver lining' is that with the red tide I've not missed out on good sailing while waiting for Torqeedo to offer support and I'll proabbly have plenty of time get a new system up and running before the red tide clears out.

Wow, I never would have guessed that mere rainwater could possibly get inside a sealed battery rated to float in the water. I'm thinking that the battery was simply defective and that Torqeedo is perhaps not being fully honest with you. They have been reported to dodge warranty repairs with less than reasonable excuses. I would absolutely insist they return your property or provide you with another battery. They had no right to dispose of the old battery unless you gave them prior permission to do so. It was your property, not theirs.

Before you buy a 900 watt-hour battery directly from Torqeedo, check the current price from defender.com. I'm seeing a current price of $786 including shipping. This may be a better price than what Torqeedo is quoting you.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:26 am 
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maltrease wrote:
I wanted to give an update on my usage of the 403 with the solar panel charging. Everything worked great for about a month. I'd use about 2/3 of the battery on an 8 mile round trip to the gulf and back. The solar panel would fully charge the battery in about 2 days so as long as I waited a day between trip it was ready to go again.

I thought that my approach would greatly extend the life of the system, never having to disconnect a cable and creating opportunities for water and corrosion to mess things up. Unfortunately, there is something I didn't account for with the design... rain.

1.) I discovered the battery had water inside and wasn't charging properly. I contacted Torqueedo and said it was strange since I hadn't even taken it out on the water in over a week but there had been heavy rains. I also included a picture - https://ibb.co/kuMmsK - showing the setup which I thought was a good way to use the system.

2.) Torqeedo wrote back to say the battery is IP67 rated and if its exposed to water longer then 30 minutes, including rain, then it would be ruined. They sent me a box to return the battery so they could check for a manufacturing defect.

3.) Battery was returned to Torqeedo, no manufacturing defect was discovered so it won't be replaced under the warranty. They did offer to replace it for $30 less then it would cost me to buy a new one online...

4.) I asked for my broken battery to be returned to me, so an electronic friend of mine could mess around with it, maybe salvage some parts for his projects but Torqeedo had already disposed of my battery.

I'll end up buying a new battery vs. accepting their $30 discount. It was pretty disappointing that they were not more helpful and wouldn't even send me my broken battery back!

Since I have to buy a new battery I'm going to go ahead and get the 900 Watt version. That will give me a huge buffer of usage between when I need the power and the slow trickle recharge from the sun. Do you guys have any suggestions on how I can protect the battery from the deadly water in the sky? My current line of thinking is to get a medium size cooler and keep the battery in that. I'd cut a whole for the cables to come out and put some kind of rain cover over it. I'm definitely open to alternative ideas.

The 'silver lining' is that with the red tide I've not missed out on good sailing while waiting for Torqeedo to offer support and I'll proabbly have plenty of time get a new system up and running before the red tide clears out.

Wow, I never would have guessed that mere rainwater could possibly get inside a sealed battery rated to float in the water. Rainwater is not that intrusive. I've been caught in some intense rainstorms out on the water with both my Torqeedo batteries fully exposed and thoroughly drenched for far longer than 30 minutes and have never had a problem with either. Are you talking just rainwater or were they ever submerged at any time?

If they were never submerged, then I'm thinking that the battery's seal may have been defective and that Torqeedo is perhaps not being fully honest with you. They have been reported by others to dodge warranty repairs with less than reasonable excuses. In any case, I would absolutely insist they return your property or provide you with another battery. They had no right to dispose of the old battery unless you gave them prior permission to do so. It was your property, not theirs.

Before you buy a 900 watt-hour battery directly from Torqeedo, check the current price from defender.com. I'm seeing a current price of $786 including shipping. This may be a better price than what Torqeedo is quoting you.

To protect the new battery when not in use, the cooler is a good idea. Also a dry bag could work, or even a decent, sealable plactic bag.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:11 am 
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pro10is wrote:
Wow, I never would have guessed that mere rainwater could possibly get inside a sealed battery rated to float in the water. Rainwater is not that intrusive. I've been caught in some intense rainstorms out on the water with both my Torqeedo batteries fully exposed and thoroughly drenched for far longer than 30 minutes and have never had a problem with either. Are you talking just rainwater or were they ever submerged at any time?

If they were never submerged, then I'm thinking that the battery's seal may have been defective and that Torqeedo is perhaps not being fully honest with you. They have been reported by others to dodge warranty repairs with less than reasonable excuses. In any case, I would absolutely insist they return your property or provide you with another battery. They had no right to dispose of the old battery unless you gave them prior permission to do so. It was your property, not theirs.

Before you buy a 900 watt-hour battery directly from Torqeedo, check the current price from defender.com. I'm seeing a current price of $786 including shipping. This may be a better price than what Torqeedo is quoting you.

To protect the new battery when not in use, the cooler is a good idea. Also a dry bag could work, or even a decent, sealable plactic bag.


The battery was never submerged in the water. Rain was absolutely the last thing on my mind as well when I was planning out the system. Particularly because of how the battery is shown strapped to the top/back of kayaks in pretty much every picture I've seen with it. In a later exchange the tech even said that from my picture the kayak looked flat on the beach and the scupper hole wouldn't drain out water fast enough, thus leaving the battery sitting in an inch or two pool of water which would compromise it if its over 30 minutes. I asked what would happen if you got caught in an unexpected squall while out on the water but that question got lost in the ongoing exchanges.

Maybe I could have kept pressing for a better offer but I was getting tired of it. Their first offer of a discount would still cost more then what Defender was selling them for. Expressing my disappointment I got another offer $30 cheaper then the Defender price. From their side, water got into the battery, the seals checked out (according to their tests) so that makes it my fault. At this point I've tired of dealing with it, accepted I won't get a replacement and moved into sharing my story to hopefully help other people make more informed decisions about Torqeedo purchases.

Maybe Torqeedo would have offered a better deal on the 915 but I didn't even try. I'd rather it be clear that I'm not happy vs. accepting some token discount. I bought it from Marine Defender for $700 including the shipping and hazmat fee. They had a sale which I guess just ended.

What I'd like to do is protect the battery both in use and out. Specifically I don't want to have to break it down or move it when I'm done. Does that change your thoughts on what would be a good solution?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:34 am 
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maltrease wrote:
pro10is wrote:
Wow, I never would have guessed that mere rainwater could possibly get inside a sealed battery rated to float in the water. Rainwater is not that intrusive. I've been caught in some intense rainstorms out on the water with both my Torqeedo batteries fully exposed and thoroughly drenched for far longer than 30 minutes and have never had a problem with either. Are you talking just rainwater or were they ever submerged at any time?

If they were never submerged, then I'm thinking that the battery's seal may have been defective and that Torqeedo is perhaps not being fully honest with you. They have been reported by others to dodge warranty repairs with less than reasonable excuses. In any case, I would absolutely insist they return your property or provide you with another battery. They had no right to dispose of the old battery unless you gave them prior permission to do so. It was your property, not theirs.

Before you buy a 900 watt-hour battery directly from Torqeedo, check the current price from defender.com. I'm seeing a current price of $786 including shipping. This may be a better price than what Torqeedo is quoting you.

To protect the new battery when not in use, the cooler is a good idea. Also a dry bag could work, or even a decent, sealable plactic bag.


The battery was never submerged in the water. Rain was absolutely the last thing on my mind as well when I was planning out the system. Particularly because of how the battery is shown strapped to the top/back of kayaks in pretty much every picture I've seen with it. In a later exchange the tech even said that from my picture the kayak looked flat on the beach and the scupper hole wouldn't drain out water fast enough, thus leaving the battery sitting in an inch or two pool of water which would compromise it if its over 30 minutes. I asked what would happen if you got caught in an unexpected squall while out on the water but that question got lost in the ongoing exchanges.

Maybe I could have kept pressing for a better offer but I was getting tired of it. Their first offer of a discount would still cost more then what Defender was selling them for. Expressing my disappointment I got another offer $30 cheaper then the Defender price. From their side, water got into the battery, the seals checked out (according to their tests) so that makes it my fault. At this point I've tired of dealing with it, accepted I won't get a replacement and moved into sharing my story to hopefully help other people make more informed decisions about Torqeedo purchases.

Maybe Torqeedo would have offered a better deal on the 915 but I didn't even try. I'd rather it be clear that I'm not happy vs. accepting some token discount. I bought it from Marine Defender for $700 including the shipping and hazmat fee. They had a sale which I guess just ended.

What I'd like to do is protect the battery both in use and out. Specifically I don't want to have to break it down or move it when I'm done. Does that change your thoughts on what would be a good solution?

What I would do to protect the batteries while in use is to place them inside a covered plastic box, much like a typical plastic battery box for conventional marine type batteries. Plastic boxes alsp come in many sizes, such as plastic storage boxes. Of course, you would need to make a provision for the cable.

I don't care for the way Torqeedo treated you in this matter, I feel they should have replaced the battery as a measure of good will, unless there was any possibility that it was indeed submerged fully or partially in water for more than 30 minutes. Rainwater alone should have not breached the seal.

At least now you have a better battery which you purchased at a very good price.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:53 am 
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pro10is wrote:
What I would do to protect the batteries while in use is to place them inside a covered plastic box, much like a typical plastic battery box for conventional marine type batteries. Plastic boxes alsp come in many sizes, such as plastic storage boxes. Of course, you would need to make a provision for the cable.

I don't care for the way Torqeedo treated you in this matter, I feel they should have replaced the battery as a measure of good will, unless there was any possibility that it was indeed submerged fully or partially in water for more than 30 minutes. Rainwater alone should have not breached the seal.

At least now you have a better battery which you purchased at a very good price.


Thanks! That is a great lead and I think will work much better (and easier) vs. hacking up a cooler. :)

I imagine the battery was partially submerged in water an inch or so during the heavy rain if the scupper hole didn't drain it fast enough.

From Torqeedo:
"The battery is IP67 meaning it can exposed up to 3ft of water for 30 minutes. After 30 minutes the fiber membrane will get saturated and allow water to enter the battery. The battery sitting in 1” of water for 30 minutes will get water inside just like a battery in 3ft of water."

There is pin hole on the bottom of the battery. I'm guessing that is where it got in past the fiber membrane. When you were in the downpours was the water pooling at all? Not that this was on your mind at the time I'm sure. ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:26 pm 
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maltrease wrote:
pro10is wrote:
What I would do to protect the batteries while in use is to place them inside a covered plastic box, much like a typical plastic battery box for conventional marine type batteries. Plastic boxes alsp come in many sizes, such as plastic storage boxes. Of course, you would need to make a provision for the cable.

I don't care for the way Torqeedo treated you in this matter, I feel they should have replaced the battery as a measure of good will, unless there was any possibility that it was indeed submerged fully or partially in water for more than 30 minutes. Rainwater alone should have not breached the seal.

At least now you have a better battery which you purchased at a very good price.


Thanks! That is a great lead and I think will work much better (and easier) vs. hacking up a cooler. :)

I imagine the battery was partially submerged in water an inch or so during the heavy rain if the scupper hole didn't drain it fast enough.

From Torqeedo:
"The battery is IP67 meaning it can exposed up to 3ft of water for 30 minutes. After 30 minutes the fiber membrane will get saturated and allow water to enter the battery. The battery sitting in 1” of water for 30 minutes will get water inside just like a battery in 3ft of water."

There is pin hole on the bottom of the battery. I'm guessing that is where it got in past the fiber membrane. When you were in the downpours was the water pooling at all? Not that this was on your mind at the time I'm sure. ;)

The scupper holes are very large in the TI storage area. I can't say that I've ever seen water pool there at all, even in a storm. How could it possibly pool there for over 30 minutes? Unless the holes were plugged.

Image


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:55 am 
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It happened at some point while the kayak was on land so maybe the holes would have been partially blocked. Everything was dry when I returned and discovered it wasn't working. Honestly, before all this happened I wouldn't have thought the battery sitting in an inch of water would hurt it, regardless of how long.

Torqueedo did reach out last night and offered me a free replacement battery. I believe this is because Memory Maker (another user on this forum) reached out to them about my situation. I had a nice chat with him today and if anyone has a problem with Torqueedo he may have some advice on how best to resolve it.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:12 pm 
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Too little too late from Torquedo, in my opinion. Their warranty manager would never get a job at Hobie...

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Location: Cleveland, OH
I'd say not too little or too late: they made good for the man even if it took a bit for the clue bird to land.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:14 am 
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maltrease wrote:
It happened at some point while the kayak was on land so maybe the holes would have been partially blocked. Everything was dry when I returned and discovered it wasn't working. Honestly, before all this happened I wouldn't have thought the battery sitting in an inch of water would hurt it, regardless of how long.

Torqueedo did reach out last night and offered me a free replacement battery. I believe this is because Memory Maker (another user on this forum) reached out to them about my situation. I had a nice chat with him today and if anyone has a problem with Torqueedo he may have some advice on how best to resolve it.

That's great, I'm glad they gave you the benefit of the doubt even if it took a nudge. Hopefully they'll realize that a little goodwill towards their customers goes a long way with people's perception of them and is well worth the cost of a few parts.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:25 pm 
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I got the new battery. Torqueedo recommended that it be elevated so it wouldn't have a chance to sit in a puddle of water. I used the PVC to create a little stand and now its sitting just above the top of the kayak. Even of the scupper holes are blocked the water will spill out the sides before reaching the battery. I also added a plastic cover to the top, this will keep rain from dripping along the cables and hopefully avoid any problems with the seals. Torqueedo said the plastic cover wasn't necessary but it wouldn't hurt.

Pictures are here - https://imgur.com/a/YDN82ER

The larger capacity battery is great. It is slightly over 4 miles from our dock to the gulf. It only took 15% of the battery to make the trip running at about 200 watts with the wind at our backs and a slight current helping us along. The few hours we went sailing the battery charged up 4%. Heading back we went from 89% to 68%, this time we were against the wind and a neutral current.

We should be able to manage 3 round trips with the battery and I expect the solar panel will be able to charge the battery 10-15% per day. So 2-3 days of charging for 1 round trip which should work out great. I doubt I'll be able to get out more often then that.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:16 pm 
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So many angles to ponder on your recent experience, maltrease ( :lol: my auto-spell checker changed your name to "maltreated"... I guess spellcheckers now understand the context of the post???)
* The reluctance to honor warranty by Torqeedo is really poor biz practice: the water-proof "feature" is aggressively advertised, without any qualifications
* My battery (915 Watts) has sat in water for many hours, and gotten rained on for hours on end. Scary thought that I gave it for granted so easily
* This forum remains one of the best places on the Web! Love the fact that another member helped you out.
I am very happy to hear there was a resolution, thanks for sharing your experience: it made us all smarter owners of the product.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:36 pm 
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rrcbob wrote:
Great info, thanks. I ran across a mounting approach on FB where the 403 is attached farther up the side of the TI rather than right at the stern. I’m wondering what the performance differences might be for this mounting approach. This has some appeal to me as I can’t accommodate any more boat length at my storage location. I have a picture but don’t seem to be able to post it (or just don’t know how).


RC, i don't know if you are still following the thread, but I just found your post quoted above, so let me reply even if late. For whatever is worth, I have the Torqeedo mounted laterally (A different set up, described in the previous page, using the scooper holes), and I don't think there is ANY performance impact on the motor due to the position. I have noted that the noise is slightly more audible (because the motor is closer), but then again noise from this motor is almost inaudible, mostly due to the turbulence produced by the shaft rather than the rotation of the propeller. Further, there is not a huge tendency for the motor to take the boat off course, possibly because you will auto-correct without even noticing it.

What DID make a huge difference was putting the Yakima Windjammer(s) on the shaft. Turbulence drastically reduced, and max power is now accessible (before, increasing throttle above 70% produced no increase in power). I feel lucky to have gotten the Windjammers on eBay, because they are a discontinued product. Bought them for $10 each (Stacked two on top of each other to cover the whole shaft). I think they still have them: https://www.ebay.com/itm/232824876773

Would love to see the pictures (even better a build description) when you install the motor on the side. Good luck on the project!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:34 am 
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zorzal wrote:
So many angles to ponder on your recent experience, maltrease ( :lol: my auto-spell checker changed your name to "maltreated"... I guess spellcheckers now understand the context of the post???)
* The reluctance to honor warranty by Torqeedo is really poor biz practice: the water-proof "feature" is aggressively advertised, without any qualifications
* My battery (915 Watts) has sat in water for many hours, and gotten rained on for hours on end. Scary thought that I gave it for granted so easily
* This forum remains one of the best places on the Web! Love the fact that another member helped you out.
I am very happy to hear there was a resolution, thanks for sharing your experience: it made us all smarter owners of the product.


Check your battery to see where the membrane is. My understanding is that this is needed so pressure can be released form inside the battery. On my ruined battery it was on the very bottom, thus exposed to the water constantly when the battery is sitting in a puddle, even a 1/4" deep. On my 915 the membrane is on the side of the battery about 2/3 of the way up. I doubt I'd have the problem if my original battery had it up there.


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