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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:30 am 
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Defy wrote:
Wow, thanks guys for the great discussion.

I have been eyeing the evolve for 3 years now and since i just moved back to the east coast and the ocean (Nebraska lakes...errr ponds did not work the mirage drive let alone require a motor). Now on the ocean I can justify it and a TI.

So here is my use case and i think an electric motor is the way to go. I live off the Chesapeake Bay , back river branch to be exact and if you look at it on a map its right in a spot that is not very sheltered from the Atlantic. Next i am about 3 miles from a sand bar that is the closest place to beach and let the kids play. Most of the time will be just leisurely putzing around with the kids on the tramps.

Probably can get away without one but peace of mind is worth 2k with kids.

So the real question is has anyone fit the 403 to the drive well? I think i want to have both options. I have a PA 17T that i would put it in the unused drive-well and then the TI it will be mixed use in a drive well and off a railblaza mount that will have my powerpole.

Why make things complicated for yourself? Since you want to use the motor in the drive well in both boats you should simply get the Evolve rather than the 403. It would be quite difficult to use the 403 in a drive well since you would somehow need to find a way to attach it. Anything can be done but you would really be going out of your way when the Evolve is already perfectly designed to fit into a Hobie drive well.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:38 am 
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Mixed use on the TI. On longer adventures I would like both drivewells open and have my wife help. But on short kicks to the sand bar for the kiddos i will probably be pedaling solo while she takes care of the kids.

I am thinking it shouldnt be too hard to drill a hole in the drive blank or make a bracket with a rod.

Also that 700 dollar difference is another battery!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:10 am 
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Thinking about mounting something like this on the TI.

Image

That is the back of my PA and i use if for my power pole. If i install some Hrails on the TI i should be able to do the same. Then i wouldn't have to put it in the drivewell.

Does it work better if its on the centerline of the hull? Or is that insignificant?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:56 am 
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Defy wrote:
Thinking about mounting something like this on the TI.

That is the back of my PA and i use if for my power pole. If i install some Hrails on the TI i should be able to do the same. Then i wouldn't have to put it in the drivewell.

Does it work better if its on the centerline of the hull? Or is that insignificant?

This should be doable. The motor does not need to be centered so don't worry about that.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Thanks, i am going to try that first before i drill holes. Really don't like drilling holes ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Location: Gulf Shores, Alabama
I've had the Hobie Evolve for about 4 years now. However, the throttle lever was never very tight ... it was hard to feel any click or indication that you were in the neutral position. Very sloppy but I thought that was just how it was made. So on a recent trip we brought our evolve and the throttle completely lost all tension. It basically would just flop down with no friction at all.

I contemplated sending the throttle to torqueedo for repair but then thought why not try to take it apart and try to figure out what's wrong. I removed the ball mount from the underside and then used a star screwdriver to remove the little screws from the stainless housing underneath. After removing the housing and then re-installing it, the throttle was fixed with a nice consistent tension and a defined click when you hit the the neutral middle. Not sure what exactly happened to make it better but wanted to post this in case anybody has a similar problem with their throttle. Easy fix

Jim


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:51 pm 
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CaptnChaos wrote:
I've had the Hobie Evolve for about 4 years now. However, the throttle lever was never very tight ... it was hard to feel any click or indication that you were in the neutral position. Very sloppy but I thought that was just how it was made. So on a recent trip we brought our evolve and the throttle completely lost all tension. It basically would just flop down with no friction at all.

I contemplated sending the throttle to torqueedo for repair but then thought why not try to take it apart and try to figure out what's wrong. I removed the ball mount from the underside and then used a star screwdriver to remove the little screws from the stainless housing underneath. After removing the housing and then re-installing it, the throttle was fixed with a nice consistent tension and a defined click when you hit the the neutral middle. Not sure what exactly happened to make it better but wanted to post this in case anybody has a similar problem with their throttle. Easy fix

Jim

Good to know. Mine always was and still is tight, but now I know what to do if it ever becomes loose. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:48 am 
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Anyone know the diameter of the 403 shaft?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Defy wrote:
Anyone know the diameter of the 403 shaft?

The prop shaft is 44mm (1.75").

Correction: The prop shaft is 30mm (1.18") in diameter. Apologies.


Last edited by pro10is on Thu May 10, 2018 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
How Torqeedo increases you're popularity..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56NyhGIQ7mE

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Fair Skies, Max.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:01 am 
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As a rule I do not like to cross post between threads but I have to make an exception here because this information pertains to this thread as much or more as where it was originally posted.
pro10is wrote:
walt wrote:
...There is one valuable peice of info that I think anyone considering electric would want and I see from a picture you posted that it would be very easy to get. I have posted this before.. maybe sometime someone can take the time and get these numbers.

The display in the picture posted gives both the boat speed in mph and watts being used (last two rows)

You may have noticed that battery capacity is specified in watt hours. Ie, 915 watt hours for the larger battery. How much actual capacity you get out of a battery is somewhat influenced by the rate you use the power but this should be a good indication of what range you get out of an electric motor.

For example, in that picture, the speed is 4.5 mph and the power being used is 273 watts. If you had the larger battery (915 wh), you can expect that at 273 watts, you would use up that 915 watt hours in 3.35 hours (simple math: 915 watt hours / 273 watts = 3.35 hours). At 4.5 mph, you would then go 15.1 miles (also simple math.. 4.5 mph * 3.35 hours - 15.1 miles).

Simple math involved here. no snake oil and exactly what I would want to know before buying electric as this result in not clouded by sail or pedal power. Add in all three at the same time you have no idea exactly what the electric contribution is.

So what would be interesting is to get the power vs speed readings for each of those electric motor setups. It would then be easy to compile a table showing what the range vs. speed would be for a given battery capacity.

Anyone with electric willing to get some simple data? Just note the power display for say 1 mph, 2 mph, 3 mph.. etc up until peak mph. Post results here.. it would be very interesting.

I'll start bringing a notebook with me and attempt to provide you with this data.

I apologize that this took so long, but it literally took all season to find a day were conditions were perfect enough to obtain this data without any other factors interfering. These numbers were taken on a day where there was virtually no wind, calm seas, and no water disturbances from other boats, as close to perfect as it ever gets.

    1.0 MPH - 13 W
    1.5 MPH - 31 W
    2.0 MPH - 44 W
    2.5 MPH - 66 W
    3.0 MPH - 97 W
    3.5 MPH - 155 W
    4.0 MPH - 199 W
    4.5 MPH - 296 W
    5.0 MPH - 410 W

These values are the average of the data sets repeated ten times and are as accurate as possible given real world conditions.

Here is the data in chart form:

Image

Using this data we can determine the Speed vs Run Time with each Torqeedo battery available for the 403: the 320 WH, the 533 WH, and the 915 WH.

Image

And also the Speed vs Range for each battery.

Image

Disclaimer: I'm ok with people using this as a general baseline, however I've mentioned many times before that these figures are theoretical only and that real world conditions can and will change them radically. If you were using the 403 in unfavorable conditions such as against a strong headwind and strong currents or waves, the results would decrease significantly. Whereas if you were in favorable conditions such as running with the wind, current, and waves, or using the sail or pedals along with the motor, the results would increase significantly. So please keep that in mind. Also you rarely travel at the same speed, at any time you may choose to go slower or faster.

If you own a 403 then you already know that the onboard computer will continually calculate your remaining run time and range in real time given the current power consumption, battery charge, and speed. This will be your most accurate data. If you don't own a 403 then you can use the charts above for a general idea of what to expect.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:56 am 
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The cool thing that stands out is at 2mph with a 45wh or greater solar panel you could run all day if the sun/sea plays nice. I have been looking a solar panels as the tramps look like a perfect place to mount them.

Thanks for the info.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:20 am 
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Awesome.. that looks very useful! Hobie's "other and way downwind" engineering dept did a nice job here...

Yep.. this is also interesting data if someone were designing a solar powered TI.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:38 am 
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Thanks for putting together these charts pro10is! This is really beautiful work. The quiet of the Torqeedo is hard to beat and I continue to use my Torqeedo when I sail, and my Suzuki for scubadiving/long distance fishing.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:55 am 
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Excellent post, pro10is, and great contributions by all. I just ordered a 403 for my TI, and couldn't/wouldn't have done it without this resource. Kudos to all.

My ideal setup would be to
* Mount the motor laterally (on the side of the hull) - No drilling, no collision with other design elements
* NOT use the 403 to direct the boat for simplicity (also retired from software, I don't trust redundant systems)

Several forum members have mentioned that they use the PVC setup, including @front_wonderland (who also seems to be a neighbor of mine :) and @sangorei (who gives all the right reasons to select this setup in this post: https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic. ... do#p297985)

My request: Would any of you who have selected such a setup mind uploading a couple of pictures, for that thing about "better than 10,000 words? Thanks in advance


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