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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:22 am 
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Hobie Pilot wrote:
pro10is wrote:
I will ask Torqeedo about this since I don't have plans to buy an 1103 AC myself. I've been very happy with my 403 and don't see a need to replace it. However, I do see a need for someone to retrofit one to a TI and then write a comprehensive report on the results. This way, other TI owners could then confidently buy one without having to risk the cost without knowing if it could actually work on the TI. I already know how I would mount it. The trick would be to make the setup easy enough so that anyone could do it without special skills.

Thank you for attempting this. We all wish you luck with Torqeedo!

Thanks. I'll keep you posted on the results in this thread.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:23 pm 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
pro10is wrote:

Even if you chose not to attach the 403 to the rudder, you can still steer the TI with the 403 by simply attaching two simple lines to the 403's steering mechanism and manipulating them by hand. I've tested this out too. This also works as a backup even if the TI's rudder lines fail.

The 403 is an excellent backup in the event that the TI's rudder breaks.


My experience with the 403, is that since "pinning" it into a fixed position, I have enjoyed the motor much more, relying only on the rudder to steer. It just feels better, less things to be loose or the motor to not spin out of control etc. It's hard to actually give a good reason, but I just prefer it locked in place. I often go in very shallow creeks/lagoons, which are no good for mirage drives. I find the torqeedo great in these situations, I have it down, rudder up, mirage drive up, and I simply use the paddle to steer from the rear seat of the TI "polynesian style". If the rudder ever breaks I know I can get back doing this (provided I have enough battery!).

My only downside is I have the 530 watt battery, its barely enough for an outing of half a day for me, unless I really conserve it. I wish I had the 900 watt. Do not buy a torqeedo unless you get the 900 watt battery (in my opinion). I'm thinking of getting an outboard petrol motor as I like to go away for multi-day remote camping trips, and would like a bit more grunt doing some offshore island hopping. But the torqeedo's best use is sailing late into the day and staying out as long as possible, wanting to get back before sunset, keep it as emergency in case you get tired, wind dies, you get injured, have a strong current, and then deplete the whole battery making your way back to the boat ramp at the end of a sail.

This motor is worth its weight in gold - I was out on the weekend and returning to the boat ramp which was at low tide on an inlet and water was gushing out bigtime with a really strong current. I couldn't even tell there was a current when I was pulling in and it flipped the boat around backwards and was about to drag me out to sea through the heads. I had 10% left on the battery and I put the motor on full ball, inch by inch it gained ground on the current and JUST got me back to shore safely. Moments like these make me think I was mad ever going out in this thing without backup of a motor. It is really fast, easy to setup, charge overnight, it reliably works every time.

It can be a bit glitchy with errors, I often get random E04 E30 usually something to do with the cable not being tight. I need to lubricate the cables somehow as they are corroding a bit.

I had a new issue in water droplets condensation appearing under the screen despite not getting the remote throttle any underwater action or splashes. Has anyone else experienced this??

Image

I'm about to send my battery back to the dealer to be inspected as part of the recall for water ingress, I will be without it for about a week, not looking forward to that wait!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:31 pm 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
pro10is wrote:

1. now that I've locked the motor in straight position and not turning with the rudder, it is marginally too close, and when under full speed, the rudder can't freely move side to side, it gets 'caught' by the torqeedo. Currently I need to slow down the toqeedo if I want to swing the rudder across the other side when the Torqeedo blocks that direction till it bumps its way past.

I've never had a problem with this. Mine clears the rudder by a very comfortable margin. If you could provide some photos at different angles, I might be able to diagnose the problem and offer a solution. What is the length of the horizontal tube? Perhaps the previous owner may have shortened it.

Image

2. In reverse, the Torqeedo thrusts back, out of the water. I tried tightening the clamp-down bungee/rope, but if I have it too tight, my cleat doesn't hold the thin rope and it slides through. I guess in reverse I could hold the clamp-down rope manually to stop it doing that...must try this.

Did you use the cleating method I detailed with the same hardware that Hobie uses? There's no way that should come loose. When going in reverse, use less throttle to minimize the problem.

3. my throttle control all of a sudden is no longer "stopping" when I pull the handle into the neutral position, it used to have a distinct bit of resistance between forward, neutral and reverse, now it just flops around a bit. Any ideas how to fix this?

That sounds like a mechanical issue with the throttle lever. If your Torqeedo is out of warranty and if you have decent mechanical skills, you can take it apart to investigate what's causing the issue. You might be able to fix it. It might be as simple as tightening down a loose screw.


Finally had a chance to look into this.
1. Examining your photos your horizontal tube length looks much longer than mine. Mine is 405mm (16"), end to end when its not connected to the ball mount, just the total length of the tube (e.g. I ignored the two brackets connected to the motor, and measured exactly the tube beyond that.

I ended up loosening the ball mount and moving it to the other side, do you see any issues with this? I have now got the pole off to the port side and a bit further away from the rudder. Bonus that I can now raise the rudder easier.

Image


Image
Having it point to the port side of the boat it now clears the rudder with a good distance, straightened it to lock it in place again using a different hole, should be good to go, I hope ??


2. Still have not solved the reversing issue. The propeller just kicks up out of the water. I have the exact cleats/mounting method you depict. I feel there is not enough pinning the motor into the "down" position. Any other ideas??

3. the throttle 'click' has suddenly came good. But I asked them to check this when I send it back for warranty check of the battery recall..



I'm seriously contemplating a gasoline outboard motor (Suzuki 2.5HP) as I feel the range and speed is lacking what I want to do with the boat now... The torqeedo definitely has its place though for quick, easy, quiet day adventures. I'm wondering whether I'll leave it at home more and more after I get a gasoline outboard or if I will want to take both for redundancy!

What I like about it:
It is very quiet!
The range GPS calculation so I can easily manage my battery to go as fast as possible and end up back at the car with the battery all used.
Convenience of charging, bring it inside, plug it in overnight.
No maintenance/servicing.

What I don't like:
Slightly underpower, can't help in very rough conditions, swell, glitchy errors, bad support from torqeedo/dealer network, VERY VERY expensive, scared it may break at any time!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:27 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:38 pm
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Location: Pennsylvania - Philly Area
Dammit,

Agree with your overall conclusions and what you like and don't like on the Torqeedo 403.

I can confirm that the Suzuki 2.5 HP outboard is powerful, excellent range, rugged and reliable (and relatively low cost).

I have been kicking around the Florida 10,000 Islands / Everglades area the past few weeks and the Suzuki 2.5 HP has been wonderful. Mostly getting me out of jams...opposing tidal currents and winds. Definitely adds a safety margin when sailing in coastal areas with waves and currents.

Enjoy a few pictures below.

ImageHobie Tandem Island Outboard Motor Mount by Jim Powers, on Flickr

ImageHobie Tandem Island Outboard Motor Mount by Jim Powers, on Flickr

ImageHobie Tandem Island by Jim Powers, on Flickr

ImageCape Romano - from above by Jim Powers, on Flickr

_________________
Jim
Hobie TI 2022 - Offshore rig - Outboard - having fun!
Hobie TI 2021 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:13 pm
Posts: 656
dammit wrote:

Finally had a chance to look into this.
1. Examining your photos your horizontal tube length looks much longer than mine. Mine is 405mm (16"), end to end when its not connected to the ball mount, just the total length of the tube (e.g. I ignored the two brackets connected to the motor, and measured exactly the tube beyond that.

I ended up loosening the ball mount and moving it to the other side, do you see any issues with this? I have now got the pole off to the port side and a bit further away from the rudder. Bonus that I can now raise the rudder easier.

Having it point to the port side of the boat it now clears the rudder with a good distance, straightened it to lock it in place again using a different hole, should be good to go, I hope ??

2. Still have not solved the reversing issue. The propeller just kicks up out of the water. I have the exact cleats/mounting method you depict. I feel there is not enough pinning the motor into the "down" position. Any other ideas??

3. the throttle 'click' has suddenly came good. But I asked them to check this when I send it back for warranty check of the battery recall..

I'm seriously contemplating a gasoline outboard motor (Suzuki 2.5HP) as I feel the range and speed is lacking what I want to do with the boat now... The torqeedo definitely has its place though for quick, easy, quiet day adventures. I'm wondering whether I'll leave it at home more and more after I get a gasoline outboard or if I will want to take both for redundancy!

What I like about it:
It is very quiet!
The range GPS calculation so I can easily manage my battery to go as fast as possible and end up back at the car with the battery all used.
Convenience of charging, bring it inside, plug it in overnight.
No maintenance/servicing.

What I don't like:
Slightly underpower, can't help in very rough conditions, swell, glitchy errors, bad support from torqeedo/dealer network, VERY VERY expensive, scared it may break at any time!

I don't know why your horizontal shaft is shorter than what I received, perhaps you could inquire to Torqeedo about this and request a replacement. It should clear the rudder. However, having it off to one side should work just fine as well.

When using reverse, throttle up gradually. Too much throttle too soon might be causing it to thrust upward as you say. Also, shortening or removing the shock cord from the tie-down line should help. The reverse on mine works very effectively, I use it every time I go out, especially to maneuver out of the dock area.

Don't worry about breaking the Torqeedo, it's far more rugged than people may think. Mine is now five years old with a lot of hours on it and it's still working as if it was new. It's been considerably more reliable than any gas outboard I've ever owned and a lot easier to take care of.

I own and use both the Suzuki 2.5 HP outboard and the Torqeedo on my TI. Both have their pros and cons, neither is clearly better than the other at everything. The Torqeedo wins hands down for ease of use, weight, convenience, having a reverse feature, and almost no noise. The Suzuki wins for price, power, and economy of range since gasoline is still cheaper than lithium-ion batteries. Which one anyone should choose depends upon what factors they consider most important. It's nice to have a choice, don't believe anyone who declares either selection not good.

When I use my TI on a calm day where the sail can't supply enough power, I generally always use the Torqeedo most of the time. It's sooo much quieter than the Suzuki which gives me a headache the longer I use it. It's also so much easier to use with its instant-on/off remote throttle. I only use the Suzuki when I want to get somewhere as fast as possible or if I run out of battery power, which is rare. I like and appreciate my Suzuki, but I do like the Torqeedo better.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:56 am 
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Hi,

Just took delivery of my Torqeedo. Arrived before the TI which is currently

My horizontal tube is also exactly 16".

pro10is I'm going to follow your instructions to the letter and thanks for providing a great review.

Do you have a shopping list of what I would need to buy? I started looking to buy a few things online but was unsure... for example diameter of shock cord and diameter of turnbuckle... anything else that does not come with the Torqeedo?

If too time-consuming just ignore... just want to do it right

:-)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:11 am 
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Redskyatnight wrote:
Hi,

Just took delivery of my Torqeedo. Arrived before the TI which is currently

My horizontal tube is also exactly 16".

pro10is I'm going to follow your instructions to the letter and thanks for providing a great review.

Do you have a shopping list of what I would need to buy? I started looking to buy a few things online but was unsure... for example diameter of shock cord and diameter of turnbuckle... anything else that does not come with the Torqeedo?

If too time-consuming just ignore... just want to do it right

:-)

All the parts are readily available online or from West Marine.

Use the exact same Harken MicroCam cleats and blocks that Hobie uses on the TI. West Marine has them in stock in their stores or you can get them from a Hobie dealer. You'll also need a couple of Hobie Cleat Support Wedges, Part # 79531111. Use the same Hobie Up and Down handles as used by the rudder up/down lines. These all can be purchased online from places like Austin Kayak or from a Hobie dealer.

The hardest part is carefully drilling and tapping the aka supports for the cleats. If you don't have experience doing this, have someone experienced do it. Use the exact same screws that Hobie used on the other side for the mainsheet. The screw length is critical.

I have some modifications from the original design after using the 403 for many years:

Use a very thick shock cord for the tie-down line and use a length only what is necessary for the drive to kick up if it hits something. This is a modification from the photos shown and greatly helps reduce any kickback when using the motor in reverse.

I now recommend simply pinning the motor straight back. Having the motor turn with the rudder is really unnecessary and just complicates things. It works just as well pinned straight back. You can still rig two lines and stow them for a backup steering method if the rudder fails.

Image

Pin the horizontal shafts to their mounts to prevent them from rotating while trailering or in very rough seas. This makes the 403 trailerable. Simply bungee the 403 in the down position when trailering rather than always removing it as Torqeedo suggests. This makes it much easier to use.

Image

Let me know if you have any other questions. I'm happy to help.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:24 am 
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Thank you so much! I like the fact that I can just pin the Torqeedo - makes all seem a tad easier :-)

Do you ever think about whether it would all still work after a capsize? Still keep the battery exposed on the deck?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:22 pm 
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Redskyatnight wrote:
Thank you so much! I like the fact that I can just pin the Torqeedo - makes all seem a tad easier :-)

Do you ever think about whether it would all still work after a capsize? Still keep the battery exposed on the deck?

The 403 series motor, battery, and throttle are IP67 rated according to Torqeedo. They can easily withstand a capsize and continue to work.

I have always mounted the battery on the deck. The deck is often splashed by water and I've been in several downpours and have never had any problems.

Image

Some inexplicably think that the Torqeedo is fragile. It's anything but, it's very rugged and very well suited to the task.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:20 am 
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Di-electric grease: do you just do the threads or fill the connections so it splurges out when you tighten? I have read a lot on this but views conflict somewhat...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:27 am 
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Redskyatnight wrote:
Di-electric grease: do you just do the threads or fill the connections so it splurges out when you tighten? I have read a lot on this but views conflict somewhat...

I don't use di-electric grease on the 403 connectors, but in saltwater applications, it would be a good idea. I would suggest a light coating on the pins and sockets.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:48 am 
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Just outfitted my Ti today and yesterday (including Torqeedo) :-)

A few pics here:

I added loads of beautifully written text but the forum booted me out for a password and I lost it all so gave up the will to live...

Image

Image

Main gist was:

Had to work really hard to tighten bracket onto metal ball for Torqeedo - hope it does not move!
Used 4x 15mm washers under ball bracket. Hope deck is strong enough.
A lot of leverage at the back and it all wobbles around a fair bit when moving the beach trailer around... a bit disconcerting (hence the probably unnecessary bit of foam).

First outing tomorrow... why am I so nervous ;-)


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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 11:30 am 
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Worth knowing: if your rudder pin breaks then the 16 inch horizontal pole will prevent adding a new rudder pin without loosening the clamp around the ball mount and moving the bar to one side.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:22 pm 
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Update:
Now that the boating season is finally underway where I live, I've asked Torqeedo for access to a 3HP Ultralight 1103 AC motor so that I can devise a mount for it that will properly work on the Hobie AI/TI.

Please watch this thread or my other Torqeedo thread for the results. If Torqeedo allows me access to this motor I will devise a mounting interface that others will be able to replicate and then test the motor's operation on the Hobie TI as I did with the 1HP 403 series.

Many of you have requested both a mounting interface for the 1103 AC motor as well as a comprehensive review before you consider buying one. I hope to be able to provide this shortly if I can get Torqeedo to help with access to one of them. Normally I would just buy the motor myself, but I already own a 403 and these units are costly, so this time around I need to ask for help.

I think this 3HP motor will be ideal for the TI once a proper mount interface is designed and tested. This is vital since Torqeedo has now gone exclusively to their new mount for all of their Ultralight series motors, not just the 3HP model. You can still buy the original-style mount for the 1HP model but at a considerable extra cost. So, if the Torqeedo Ultralight series of motors are to be used going forward, a new mount interface for the AI/TI is critical.

I'll let everyone here know the results, whatever happens.

Update: I finally did hear back from Torqeedo on this. Please see this post for their response.


Last edited by pro10is on Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:01 am 
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To anyone following this thread, I've received no response yet from Torqeedo.


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