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Torqeedo 403 Ultralight Motor / Hobie TI Application Guide
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Author:  pro10is [ Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torqeedo 403 Ultralight Motor / Hobie TI Application Gui

dammit wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone can help with this question.

I have a 530 watt torqeedo battery and I bought the USB adaptor to allow me to charge usb devices.

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I noticed you can't just plug in a USB and have it work, unless the remote trottle is connected. Also then it starts searching for GPS, potentially draining the battery further.

I'm going camping and need to conserve the Torqeedo battery as much as possible for emergency use on the water but was tempted to use it to charge go pros, iphone and power banks. I haven't figured out how to translate the 530 watts to mah to understand how much it drains to charge each device. I just turned it on at home to see what a full iphone charge does to the battery %. Update: it took 11% of my 530 watt battery to charge an iphone to 100% from flat, seems like it's not a good option to charge any devices using it unless you are really desperate.

If anyone can shed any light into whether I'd be better stocking up on more powerbanks, I have a bunch of 10,000 MAH ones, to keep the Torqeedo fully charged for its intended use (motor) or if it is hardly going to have an impact on that giant battery charging the odd iphone here and there, it would be great to know!

The Torqeedo batteries are not rated in Watts, but rather in Watt-hours (Wh). So, your 530 Watt-hour battery is capable of supplying 530 Watts of power for one hour.

Other batteries may be rated in Amp-hours (A⋅h) or Milliamp-hours (mAh).
For example, a 10,000 mAh battery can supply 10,000 milliamps (mA) at its rated voltage for one hour. Since 1,000 mA =1 Amp (A), this battery can also be rated as a 10 Amp-hour battery.

Amps or milliamps is a measurement of electrical current whereas Wattage is a measurement of power. To measure power (P) in Watts, you need both the battery's maximum rated current (I) and voltage (V). Watts = Current x Volts (P=IE).

So, a 10,000 mAh (10 Amp-hour) battery delivering 5 Volts could be rated as a 50 Watt-hour battery. (50 Watts = 10 Amps x 5 Volts)

The formula to convert Amp-hours to Watt-hours is: (Ah)*(V) = (Wh)
The formula to convert Milliamp-hours to Watt-hours is: (mAh)*(V)/1000 = (Wh)

We can also convert Watt-hours to Amp-hours (or Milliamp-hours) if we know the battery's rated voltage. The Torqeedo batteries are rated for 29.6 V, so the 530 Watt Torqeedo battery could also be rated for 18 Amp-hours (rounded) or 18,000 Milliamp-hours.

The formula to convert Watt-hours to Amp-hours is: (Wh)/(V) =(Ah)
The formula to convert Watt-hours to Milliamp-hours is: (Wh)*1000/(V) =(mAh)

The problem with comparing batteries using only Amp-hours or Milliamp-hours is that you can only directly compare such batteries of equal voltage, otherwise you will not get an accurate indication of the actual power a battery can produce. For example, if you compared the Torqeedo's 29.6 Volt battery using its 18,000 Milliamp-hour rating to a 5 Volt battery rated as 18,000 Milliamp-hour you might think they're the same, but the Torqeedo battery is a 530 Watt-hour battery whereas the 5 Volt battery is only a 90 Watt-hour battery. So never compare batteries of different voltages using only Amp-hour or Milliamp-hour ratings.

It's hard to estimate how much power is required to charge a smartphone because each uses different capacity batteries and you also have to calculate for charging inefficiencies such as heat loss. But a rough guesstimate would be around 5000 mAh at 5 Volts. So, a 5000 mAh smartphone power bank might be able to charge your smartphone once and a 10,000 mAh might be able to charge it twice. A 5,000 mAh power bank at 5 volts would be equivalent to a 25 Watt-hour battery.

To calculate how many smartphone charges the Torqeedo's 530 Wh battery could supply would be difficult because of the circuitry in both its USB converter and the Torqeedo's Battery Management System (BMS) which is not going to allow the battery to be fully depleted. But I would guess you could get 10 - 20 smartphone charges out of it, again depending upon the size and capacity of your smartphone's battery. Personally, I would not use it for charging smartphones on an extended outing and would conserve its power for the motor.

I hope this helps answer some of your questions.

Author:  dammit [ Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torqeedo 403 Ultralight Motor / Hobie TI Application Gui

Thanks pro10is, really great detail there!

Conclusion for anyone curious: the Torqeedo battery is not really worth it to charge iphones / USB devices unless you really are desperate and OK with it depleting the battery a lot (have juice to spare), it took 11% battery to fully charge an iphone 7. Minor top ups would be ok while you are already using it.

I noticed even having mine turned on in 'standby' mode, not actually running, just to track the boat speed/gps, after an hour or so it went down 4%.




I've had three new problems with my Torqeedo 403:

1. now that I've locked the motor in straight position and not turning with the rudder, it is marginally too close, and when under full speed, the rudder can't freely move side to side, it gets 'caught' by the torqeedo. Currently I need to slow down the toqeedo if I want to swing the rudder across the other side when the Torqeedo blocks that direction till it bumps its way past.

I imagine the solution is to try and extend the 403 out slightly, but I only have about 5mm left of pipe not used to mount it further back down the pipe, or twist it to be side on slightly rather than dead down/straight, to help it clear the rudder.

2. In reverse, the Torqeedo thrusts back, out of the water. I tried tightening the clamp-down bungee/rope, but if I have it too tight, my cleat doesn't hold the thin rope and it slides through. I guess in reverse I could hold the clamp-down rope manually to stop it doing that...must try this.


3. my throttle control all of a sudden is no longer "stopping" when I pull the handle into the neutral position, it used to have a distinct bit of resistance between forward, neutral and reverse, now it just flops around a bit. Any ideas how to fix this?

Author:  pro10is [ Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torqeedo 403 Ultralight Motor / Hobie TI Application Gui

dammit wrote:
I've had three new problems with my Torqeedo 403:

1. now that I've locked the motor in straight position and not turning with the rudder, it is marginally too close, and when under full speed, the rudder can't freely move side to side, it gets 'caught' by the torqeedo. Currently I need to slow down the toqeedo if I want to swing the rudder across the other side when the Torqeedo blocks that direction till it bumps its way past.

I imagine the solution is to try and extend the 403 out slightly, but I only have about 5mm left of pipe not used to mount it further back down the pipe, or twist it to be side on slightly rather than dead down/straight, to help it clear the rudder.

2. In reverse, the Torqeedo thrusts back, out of the water. I tried tightening the clamp-down bungee/rope, but if I have it too tight, my cleat doesn't hold the thin rope and it slides through. I guess in reverse I could hold the clamp-down rope manually to stop it doing that...must try this.

3. my throttle control all of a sudden is no longer "stopping" when I pull the handle into the neutral position, it used to have a distinct bit of resistance between forward, neutral and reverse, now it just flops around a bit. Any ideas how to fix this?


1. now that I've locked the motor in straight position and not turning with the rudder, it is marginally too close, and when under full speed, the rudder can't freely move side to side, it gets 'caught' by the torqeedo. Currently I need to slow down the toqeedo if I want to swing the rudder across the other side when the Torqeedo blocks that direction till it bumps its way past.

I've never had a problem with this. Mine clears the rudder by a very comfortable margin. If you could provide some photos at different angles, I might be able to diagnose the problem and offer a solution. What is the length of the horizontal tube? Perhaps the previous owner may have shortened it.

Image
Image

2. In reverse, the Torqeedo thrusts back, out of the water. I tried tightening the clamp-down bungee/rope, but if I have it too tight, my cleat doesn't hold the thin rope and it slides through. I guess in reverse I could hold the clamp-down rope manually to stop it doing that...must try this.

Did you use the cleating method I detailed with the same hardware that Hobie uses? There's no way that should come loose. When going in reverse, use less throttle to minimize the problem.

Image
Image

3. my throttle control all of a sudden is no longer "stopping" when I pull the handle into the neutral position, it used to have a distinct bit of resistance between forward, neutral and reverse, now it just flops around a bit. Any ideas how to fix this?

That sounds like a mechanical issue with the throttle lever. If your Torqeedo is out of warranty and if you have decent mechanical skills, you can take it apart to investigate what's causing the issue. You might be able to fix it. It might be as simple as tightening down a loose screw.

Author:  paul857 [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torqeedo 403 Ultralight Motor / Hobie TI Application Gui

@pro10is: Thanks very much for all of the information you've posted on this thread over the last four years. I intend to install using your guidance. I've got a 2019 TI and an 2016 11' Revo and plan to put mounts on both for a new 403 I'll buy this winter. We live on the Appomattox River two miles from its confluence with the James, where the sailing is best. The 403 will help us get back and forth faster and will be helpful on those days the wind dies many miles from home, and on those days the tides are working against us. We routinely pedal in those conditions, but having a motor backup will be nice.

Author:  HobieTI [ Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torqeedo 403 Ultralight Motor / Hobie TI Application Gui

If I am not going to integrate into steering, why not put the ball mount just behind rear hatch and to port side, and have Torqeedo side mounted using the supplied hardware? This eliminates any interference issues with the rudder, does not extend the length of the boat, and provides easier access to the motor if needed. Putting it in rear as discussed in this string can interfere with rudder when rudder is partially kicked up.

Author:  pro10is [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torqeedo 403 Ultralight Motor / Hobie TI Application Gui

HobieTI wrote:
If I am not going to integrate into steering, why not put the ball mount just behind rear hatch and to port side, and have Torqeedo side mounted using the supplied hardware? This eliminates any interference issues with the rudder, does not extend the length of the boat, and provides easier access to the motor if needed. Putting it in rear as discussed in this string can interfere with rudder when rudder is partially kicked up.

The rudder interference is nothing to worry about, the rudder can always be raised to a horizontal position which is good enough. To raise it all the way, you simply turn the rudder so that it doesn't contact the motor. It's no problem at all. I've been using this setup for many years now.

You can certainly mount a 403 on the side of the TI and it will work. The reason I didn't is very simple. When you mount a motor on the side, there will be a slight torque applied which will try to turn the TI in the opposite direction of the side where it's mounted. This slight torque is easily overcome by moving the rudder to compensate. No big deal except for the fact that the 403 is a tiny 1HP motor running off of a battery. When you're dealing with such a small motor and limited power supply, you want to ensure maximum efficiencies and not waste a milliwatt of what little power is available. It's the same principle as with a road bike. Since you're the bike's motor and you have limited energy, strength, and power, you don't want to do anything that might unnecessarily take away even a slight fraction of the available power.

So, if there is no other advantage of mounting the motor either directly in the back or to the side, in theory at least, mounting it in the back should provide the most efficient use of the limited power available.

Author:  HobieTI [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torqeedo 403 Ultralight Motor / Hobie TI Application Gui

thank you! I also noticed you did not use the rubber rest that comes with Torqueedo as a secondary resting point for the boom. Did you just not want to drill an extra hole in the boat, or is there another reason for not using that?

Best,

Author:  pro10is [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torqeedo 403 Ultralight Motor / Hobie TI Application Gui

I didn't use it because there was no need for it and there wasn't enough room. It has never been an issue.

Author:  HobieTI [ Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torqeedo 403 Ultralight Motor / Hobie TI Application Gui

If I never plan to use the reverse on my torqeedo do I need to use the bottom line to cleat it down? I like the idea of drilling fewer holes in my boat, and I don't plan on using the reverse function.

Author:  pro10is [ Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torqeedo 403 Ultralight Motor / Hobie TI Application Gui

HobieTI wrote:
If I never plan to use the reverse on my torqeedo do I need to use the bottom line to cleat it down? I like the idea of drilling fewer holes in my boat, and I don't plan on using the reverse function.

Believe me, you probably will want to use the reverse function. I use it all the time and I don't know what I'd do without it.

Yes, when in reverse it needs to be held down. Drilling a few small holes is not going to hurt the boat.

Author:  HobieTI [ Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torqeedo 403 Ultralight Motor / Hobie TI Application Gui

Three quick questions.
1. Some have expressed concern trailering with torqeedo mounted. But I sail in coastal conditions with large swells. It seems like that will be much more bounce than trailering. Is anyone having trouble with the ball mount coming loose or hurting the hull in choppy conditions?

2. Is it best to keep the 403 in down position when sailing to reduce stress on the hull?

3. Is it ok to keep the 403 mounted on the boat during storage? I sail about once per month. Can I just leave the motor mounted on the boat or is that too rough on the hull?

Thanks for the help!

Author:  pro10is [ Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torqeedo 403 Ultralight Motor / Hobie TI Application Gui

1. Some have expressed concern trailering with torqeedo mounted. But I sail in coastal conditions with large swells. It seems like that will be much more bounce than trailering. Is anyone having trouble with the ball mount coming loose or hurting the hull in choppy conditions?

Once the Torqeedo mount is properly secured, even coastal conditions won't make it come loose. It does need to be tightened properly though and I do recommend adding a through bolt on each end of the horizontal bar. This is very easy to do.
Image

A trailer puts a lot more stress on the mount because road bumps are much more jarring than swells. However, securing the Torqeedo in the downward position with a simple bungee cord easily makes it trailerable.

2. Is it best to keep the 403 in down position when sailing to reduce stress on the hull?

Up or down, the Torqeedo simply cannot put enough weight on a TI hull to stress it. A Suzuki 2.5 HP motor puts a lot more stress on a TI hull, but people have been using those for years without damaging a TI. So, the 403 is certainly nothing to worry about.

3. Is it ok to keep the 403 mounted on the boat during storage? I sail about once per month. Can I just leave the motor mounted on the boat or is that too rough on the hull?

It will cause no damage to the hull at all. The 403 motor itself, not including the battery's weight, is incredibly light. Don't worry about it hurting the hull in any circumstance.

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