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 Post subject: New AI2 almost perfect
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:59 am
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Every time I walk past the AI2 I cannot seem to find anything I want more( :lol: missing side handle. Hobie we need that back)
It seems everything is thought of. I add engine mount, Fish finder mount and proprietary bilge pump. The rest is stock.

Have anyone done anything meaningful to it? I want to hear. I am out of ideas at the moment.


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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:50 pm 
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Location: Annapolis MD
I've recently seen someone mount an Adjustable H-Bar behind the seat on a TI. They then ran the main sheet to a block attached to the H-Bar to keep the main sheet from hitting your head. Thought it was pretty cool, but not sure if the H-Bar is made to take that kind of load from the sail.

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2011 Hobie Mirage Adventure
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:36 am 
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Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 8:53 am
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Location: Paoli Pennsylvania - East Coast USA
Tech wrote:
Have anyone done anything meaningful to it? I want to hear. I am out of ideas at the moment.

  • Ama Keep-Out Lines - so the boat does not capsize when an aka shear pin breaks.
    .
  • Aka Keep-In Lines - so the akas do not spontaneously separate from the boat if/when an aka knuckle assembly separates
    .
  • Upgraded sealing so the fore and aft hatches do not take on so much water in choppy conditions.
    .
  • Replacement of fore & aft grab handles whose innards are not SS and which rust/fail (broken foot, anybody..?)) with PVC pipe.
    .
  • Re-mounting/relocating mainsheet cleat so the sheet can be quickly cleated/uncleated.
    .
  • Add carrying strap at balance point of mast bag
    .
  • Larger-diameter furling line.
    .
  • Larger-diameter mainsheet at 3:1
    .
  • Leash and attachment point to hold Mirage Drive.
.

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2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:14 pm 
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Great info thanks PeteCress!

Sounds like some lessons were learned the hard way...Ouch.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Location: Paoli Pennsylvania - East Coast USA
XamaX wrote:
Sounds like some lessons were learned the hard way...Ouch.

Learned one lesson with the aka keep-out lines late last summer: although you need enough stretch in the system for shock absorbtion, too much stretch lets the akas fold in far enough to capsize.

I the el-cheapo Home Depot 1" wide bungees and 1/2" line I was using worked fine for awhile and I was getting pretty smug about my newfound immunity to capsize.

But it seems that they got stretched with use over the season.... and, guess what?

Dunno what the fix is, but I am looking for some way to introduce enough "Give" but not too much.

My current setup allows me to pull the ama eight inches aft before I hear creaking and groaning sounds and that seems about right stability-assurance-wise.

The trick is finding materials that will stay that way over time.

I am open to suggestions...

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2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: Confirm@FatBelly.com


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:15 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2722
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Get Hobie bungie cord. They claim it to be far superior

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:42 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2744
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Interesting thoughts on the safety lines. We have actually ran into a bunch of crap with our adventure boats, sometimes at excessive speeds, ( ie... sand and oyster bars, coral heads, several mooring balls, channel markers, and a couple million dollar boats, oops). And have had many rough surf launches/ landings that go very bad. In any rough seas or boat wakes, the nylon pins break from just water force, we have broke hundreds of those pins.
The breakaway nylon sheer pins in Hobies design are not a bad design, (actually clever). However the location of the brace system could not have been located in a worse location, as a designer, I would have told them, you can put the break away brace anywhere but here..., they selected here. Hobie is not flexible about their designs so we have to live with what we have. Everytime I have mentioned it, I get slammed relentlessly by pretty much everyone defending their stupid design, (8 yrs now and counting).
I doubt very much Hobie will ever change their design so it's up to users to come up with their own fixes, (not cool). The best work around is to keep the original (or slightly stronger plastic) plastic sheer pin system in tact, to prevent the rear aka bar from elbowing. But unfortunately when the sheer pin breaks and the ama folds in, the boat capsizes, (keiths insta capsize). The root cause of the problem is the location of the brace, any force applied to the ama is tripled at the brace, (because of leverage). The sheer pin is designed to break at a certain force, unfortunatly the force required to fold the aka bar, (elbow), or break the ball off the hull, or split the plasic hull is only slightly higher than the nylon sheer bolt break strength,,,, because of the braces mounting location, nothing else.
The only purpose for the safety lines is in the event of a sheer pin break, the safety line prevents the ama from folding in completely. So you can stop and make repairs without going over, or doing further damage.
Any light rope will do the job, (we use 3/16 or 1/4" dia cheap nylon rope). You shouldn't need a bungy. What makes the system work is the location of the attachment points, not neccessarily the type of rope.
Basically anything attached to any rigid point on the hull, and the other end attached directly to the ama, or the outermost areas of the aka bars removes the 3x amplified force.
In the event of a serious crash, or roll over in the surf, you want the aka nylon sheer bolt to break, and you want the safey rope to snap and allow the ama to fold in at the knuckles, ( the knuckles are very strong).

The other weakness in the design is the plastic clips that hold the aka bars in, ours have fell out many many times, (just like the OP's first video at around 2 minutes in). Add any rope or clip you like to prevent the aka bars from popping out, (we use kayakbob's simple spectra loops, (costs about a buck)), so if the clip comes loose, and the aka bar starts to come out, the safety line prevent the aka bar from falling all the way out. Again Hobie is very inflexible about their original design, (feeling it's the greatest thing since sliced bread), well it's not, so the rest of us are forced to come up with our own work arounds, again I'll get slammed relentlessly by people defending a stupid design.
It is what it is.
FE

Edit: other than those couple minor annoying issues, the boats are pretty darn remarkable, better than anything else out there I know of. What I like most as a long time kayaker is the ability to use either as a kayak or a sailboat, depending on the day, it's not the best at either but gets the job done very well. There is no day you can't take an adventure boat out, (within reason of course).


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:27 am 
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Location: Benicia, CA
fusioneng wrote:
Everytime I have mentioned it, I get slammed relentlessly by pretty much everyone defending their stupid design, (8 yrs now and counting).
I doubt very much Hobie will ever change their design so it's up to users to come up with their own fixes, (not cool).


I take a different viewpoint on this...since all sailboats are compromises, I buy boats KNOWING that I will have to improve something and sometimes many somethings. in fact, I typically sell my boats after I've finished improving them since, for me, half the fun is playing with them OUT of the water.

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SeaRail 19
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Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:47 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Don't get me wrong, I love the boats, I wouldn't own anything else.
Probably shouldn't have been so critical, oh well...
FE


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:07 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 3100
Location: South Florida
PeteCress wrote:
XamaX wrote:
Sounds like some lessons were learned the hard way...Ouch.

Learned one lesson with the aka keep-out lines late last summer: although you need enough stretch in the system for shock absorbtion, too much stretch lets the akas fold in far enough to capsize.

I the el-cheapo Home Depot 1" wide bungees and 1/2" line I was using worked fine for awhile and I was getting pretty smug about my newfound immunity to capsize.

But it seems that they got stretched with use over the season.... and, guess what?

Dunno what the fix is, but I am looking for some way to introduce enough "Give" but not too much.

My current setup allows me to pull the ama eight inches aft before I hear creaking and groaning sounds and that seems about right stability-assurance-wise.

The trick is finding materials that will stay that way over time.

I am open to suggestions...

I'm now using 19” flat, EPDM rubber bungees. Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CCFCO0/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 You can see them here: https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=1020 Scroll down to the post "Keep-Out Lines Revisited."

Keith

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:20 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Pula - Sardinia
speaking again about the pins material choice I think that one of the things to consider is the sea u are sailing your boat. of course when Hobie design the boat they have to think at any kind of sea and any kind of sailor's body.
How easy or rare is the chance to hit something when u are moving fast and consequently break the bars if u should have a metal pin instead of plastic?
For example i sail in the Mediterranean (Sardinia). We dont have rivers here and it's pratically impossibile to go in a sand bank. Moreover here the water color is like crystal, not muddy and we can see clearly the bottom of the sea in almost every situation.
In Florida it's very different (i suppose). In spite of this I decided to mount the safety lines and not the metal pin, but sometimes i wonder if the metal pin should have need a easier and safer solution in the sea where i sail.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:56 am 
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Location: South Florida
Your logic for a metal pin in the waters you sail is fine; however, just the idea of it makes me nervous. Tom Lachner and I have simply suggested a stronger plastic pin. Initially we recommended 1/4" nylatron pins, but, after we suggested that the company that sells nylatron pin jacked the price up astronomically. Hence, I now suggest a simple 2"x1/4" nylon bolt that you can find at most ACE hardware stores. I described it here https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=930 Scroll down until you come to "Stronger AKA brace shear pins--the simple nylon bolt." You use only the unthreaded part of the bolt. Without serious tests, it is hard to say how much that ACE bolt will strengthen the pin over the original Hobie--maybe 10-20%.

When I broke a Hobie shear pin and capsized losing considerable expensive gear, I simply hit a wave. With the original Hobie pin sailing a TI or AI 2, that is all you have to do to break a brace pin--bury your ama/aka enough when hitting a wave at high speed. Think about it. Hobie has not changed the pin from the original one on the original (2006?) Hobie Adventure Island. That same pin is used on the Hobie Tandem Island and the AI 2. These newer boats are much more powerful and sail significantly faster than the original Adventure Island. I don't advocate a steel pin, but a stronger pin (10-20%) adds a significant safety factor.

Keith

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"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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