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 Post subject: Defy's TI build
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:23 pm 
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Posts: 283
It's official I brought the TI home today. Had to rig the trailer in the rain but worked great.

Image

Already have tons of mods for it mostly trailer mods to start as that thing is too high. Plan to have a single trailex (looking for a used one now) as a dolly/trailer and only use my 2 up when i need both boats.

Will add a Lowrance 5TI, torqeedo 403, tramps, ama stays (need to find that post), bow support for the trailer.

Few questions:

1) Do most people sail from the rear? I want to rig it to a 3:1 and set the rear up with the finder.

2) Do you need gloves? In my H16 days i never sailed without them but that boat went alot faster and more weight swinging around on the sheets (no wires on this mast will be nice).

3) Why does hobie give you a nice ama bag but not the mirage drive bags? Nice bag though.

4) How do people store their drives? Now i have 4 i need something better than in my shelf.




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 Post subject: Re: Defy's TI build
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
I think it's half and half with the TI crowd, half solo in the front and the other half in the back. I keep both my control lines setup so I can drve from either seat. With tramps you can only paddle from the back, (lol as if anyone does paddle ever).
I like the front because I hate that sail control line on my neck.
FE


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 Post subject: Re: Defy's TI build
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:16 pm 
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You're going to have fun setting up your new TI and even more fun using it. Enjoy!

Your questions:
1) Do most people sail from the rear? I want to rig it to a 3:1 and set the rear up with the finder.
Some like the front seat, some like the back better. I think the view is better from the rear because the sail is not in your view as much. After a few times out you'll know which you like best but if you want to know ahead of time so you can set up your controls, try to get a feel for it on land by sitting in both seats with the sail raised. I knew right away I liked the back seat bettter.

2) Do you need gloves? In my H16 days i never sailed without them but that boat went alot faster and more weight swinging around on the sheets (no wires on this mast will be nice).
I don't use gloves, even on the roughest days, but there have been times where it would have been a good idea because sometimes my hands do get sore.

3) Why does hobie give you a nice ama bag but not the mirage drive bags? Nice bag though.
Good question, I've never used the ama bag (who ever removes their amas in season?) but could really use the drive bags. Probably a matter of cost.

4) How do people store their drives? Now i have 4 i need something better than in my shelf.
They're sure awkward to store. They don't seem to store well on anything. It's on my to do list to design and build a storage rack for them off season.


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 Post subject: Re: Defy's TI build
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:03 am 
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Thanks for the thoughts.

Anyone have a pic of their ama stays/safety lines? I am not visualizing it and everything i search had Photobucket pics that no longer work.

Do i just tie lines from the front of the ama (add padeyes) to the bow? One of FE's posts sounded like his were parallel with the akas?

While i wait for parts what other easy mods should i be doing?


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 Post subject: Re: Defy's TI build
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:49 am 
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Defy wrote:
Thanks for the thoughts.

Anyone have a pic of their ama stays/safety lines? I am not visualizing it and everything i search had Photobucket pics that no longer work.

Do i just tie lines from the front of the ama (add padeyes) to the bow? One of FE's posts sounded like his were parallel with the akas?

While i wait for parts what other easy mods should i be doing?

I saw that you had tramps on your list. If you use tramps, you don't need ama safety lines. You can prove this to yourself by trying to collapse an ama by hand on land while you have the tramps deployed.

However, you should still use lines which prevent the amas from disengaging from the boat.


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 Post subject: Re: Defy's TI build
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Sorry:
I have no means to post pics any longer, and all my old pics are lost forever.
Imagine if you will.....
The simplest safety line setup (Keiths keep out lines), is just simple 1/8 or 3/16 polypropylene or nylon rope (walmart) and a couple 2" stainless clips (Home Depot).
What I do is make a cinch knot on one end of the rope, wrap the rope around the front AKA hull brace (on the gunwale), and feed the end into the loop of the cinch knot pull it tight and you have a slip knot or hangmans noose,(seriously any knots you know will work fine). Now open the AMA and lock it. Now attach the clip to the lifting handle strap (should be plenty strong for the purpose, the older boats had a stainless padeye you could attach to in the center of the AMA, but that's gone on the newer boats). Now just run the rope to the clip and tie it to the clip. If your uncomfortable clipping to the carry strap, just wrap around the rear AKA bar where it enters the AMA (that works just fine also). It takes all of two minutes to do just one time, and you only need to do it once in the entire life of the boat. When I break down I just unclip the clip and throw the line into a mesh pocket, (my clips and lines are 7 years old now, never been replaced). Takes all of 30 seconds to clip on when setting up, and if I'm going out on a calm day with no risk, I don't even bother connecting the clips, or if I plan to fold in the AMA's that day (skinny rivers), I'll just leave the clips in the mesh pockets.
You can also do exactly the same from the rear AKA brace only run the rope forward to the handle with a second clip attached to the back of the lift handle. I have this one also but it just stays stuffed in the mesh pocket 98% of the time, (seldom used, unless I'm far offshore in rough conditions, or out in conditions the boat shouldn't be in).
To test the setup just disconnect the AKA brace and try to fold in the AKA, if it folds in more than halfway, then you need to tighten the rope a little, it's ok if it's springy (springy is better).
Doing this helps 3 things, in the event of a boat wake or wave breaking the AKA nylon brace pin, or hitting a channel marker ( I do that all the time), the nylon pin still breaks, but the safety ropes prevent the AMA's from folding in (insta capsize, as Keith calls it). The other benefit is once in a while when you lock the AKA bars in they don't latch, and the AKA bars fall out (again insta capsize). The line prevents the aka bars from coming out, even if unclipped. The third problem solved is when you are sailing, the AMA that's up in the air rattles around and makes a lot of noise as the bungys stretch, and relax, and if one bungy breaks, the AMA falls off, the ropes hold the AMA tight on the posts so they don't rattle and bounce making a lot of noise (which drives me nuts).

I always joke about sailing by the brail method, and have hit a lot of stuff, sometimes at high speeds (especially channel markers at night (they hide them I swear)), and anchor bouys (you would think you could plainly see a big white ball). Typically the AMA hooks them, the AKA nylon pin breaks, the line stretches and obsorbs the energy stopping the boat, then the boat bounces back. Then theirs the occasional multi million dollar yacht (turn your lights off and back away quietly as possible). LOL if you hit something too hard and the line breaks, you deserve to go for a swim. Actually I've hit a lot of stuff and never snapped a line (stretchy line acts like a shock obsorber). My opinion this simple fix sure beats the alternative of switching the nylon sheer bolt with a stainless bolt, which will for sure elbow your $200 dollar AKA bar, or tear you hull, ending your sailing career for a couple weeks till you get parts, plus you have to do the walk of shame walking your broken boat back to launch, then home. Though I see nothing wrong with Keiths idea of a slightly stronger nylon shear bolt, (just not too strong), the problem being on the standard nylon bolt, the impact hits the threads of the bolt, so a dozen or so much smaller hits (like from boat wakes), also takes the shear bolt out.
Of course you can go as fancy, or simple as you like, if you fish and fold in your AMA often, just don't clip that side that day. If the weather turns and I start getting in trouble, I'll scurry out on the tramp and clip the clip, (security blanket, hopefully helps you stay upright in white knuckled 30 mph winds and 5 ft waves with a broke rudder, (yea that's another potential issue)).
FE
Edit: yea if you have the newer tramps with the now stronger clips, you might get away with no safety straps (BTW the new clips fit on the older tramps), the old clips just snapped off like a zipper, then you end up capsizing anyway, then you have to replace all the clips again and again and again (the clips are around $13 bucks ea, I swear I've bought 30-40 of those darn clips,,, or if you ever try to sit on the dang tramp, yep they pop like a zipper). In 7 yrs I've never gone out not even once without my tramps on, I still have the safety lines because they do so much more, I've had quite a few people fall off my boat as the AKA's popped out, or the tramp straps broke, of the AMA's just flat fell off. Some of that stuff has been improved upon recently, but I lost faith in all of it a long time ago, and that faith will never come back, I prefer to spend the 30 seconds clipping the darn clips, (just sayin).


Last edited by fusioneng on Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Defy's TI build
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:16 am 
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Location: Blacklick, Ohio
Congrats on the new TI!

I sail with gloves.

I prefer the front seat because I'm too fat to sail solo from the rear.

I don't use safety lines because I use the tramps. I've recently added spine board hakas too.

I'll second what pro10is said about the lines that prevent the akas from disengaging. I had one disengage on me a couple of weeks ago out of the blue. luckily it was on the windward side. I wasn't sailing very fast and was able to wrangle it back in and re-seat it on the move. I guess I really need to institute that ama retention line. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Defy's TI build
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:45 am 
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FE,

Image

So you are saying tie it like the pink/green lines maybe put a padeye there as I think the handle straps have too much give.

I was thinking tie it like the blue line.


On a different note i think my daughter has named the TI "HeiHei" pronounced "hey hey". If you dont know who that is you obviously don't have little girls. And have not seen Moana. She calls it her Moana boat.

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 Post subject: Re: Defy's TI build
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:58 am 
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Location: Blacklick, Ohio
Defy wrote:

On a different note i think my daughter has named the TI "HeiHei" pronounced "hey hey". If you dont know who that is you obviously don't have little girls. And have not seen Moana. She calls it her Moana boat.

Image


Now that's funny.

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 Post subject: Defy's TI build
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:03 am 
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TI_Tom wrote:

Now that's funny.


Yeah better than my other hobies

Battleship - PA 17T
2k - Outfitter (friends couldn't believe i spent 2k on a kayak)
Grandpa's Pension- old sunfish my grandad bought me when I was 11

As soon as i find my vinyl cutter I'll design up a logo with the name. Just have about 2 more rows of boxes before i can get my trailer in the garage.

Image



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 Post subject: Re: Defy's TI build
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:34 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Defy:
Either will work just fine, the red/green adds a second and third purpose, of preventing the AKA bars from popping out, (if you didn't get them clicked in all the way), and stops the AMA that's way up in the air when sailing from flopping around, (on the older boats with just a single 1/4 bungy, that would get weaker with age it was a popular pastime having yor AMA's fall off and you would have to chase them down).
Anything is better than nothing at all, and the purpose is not to defeat the designed in safety feature of the break away bolt. The lines only prevent the AMA's from folding in unexpectadly while out sailing in less than ideal conditions to keep you from insta capsize.
These boats are really hard to capsize, but when they do it's kinda difficult to flip them back upright, (especially in high winds and 3ft chop, (offshore,,,something you don't want to do, just sayin...), and righting the boat is something you should practice.
Actually there is a third option that I didn't mention (not tryin to complicate matters). If you sit on the tramps a lot (like I do when hiking out), you get kinda tired of your butt dragging in the water, and we are often walking around on our tramps with full scuba gear on (300 lbs plus). If you use 3/16 paracord (which doesn't stretch and easily holds 500 lbs).
If you do the same cinch knot and slip it around the same hull brace on the gunwale, then run the paracord line over the front AKA bar (near the hull) back over the the rear AKA bar near where the little buttons that hold the bungy's on (far outboard on the AKA bar). What I did on the outer attachment is make a cinch knot on the end of a small piece of spectra line (the grey Hobie rudder line). Slip the cinch knot over the little mushroom button, but make sure the line is wrapped around the AKA bar at least once so it comes out on the top side. With the AMA's out and locked you want that line fairly taught. Don't worry about the button breaking off, as long as the line wraps around the AKA bar the button won't break. The reason spectra is used on the outer end is so you can still get the bungy on. Now do the same thing from the rear to the front forming an X. You could probably use the spectra rudder line for the whole thing as well if you like. If you did it right now you have two fairly taught, (non stretch) lines over the front and rear aka bars forming a big X that easily supports your weight. Now when you unroll your tramp over the top of the X the tramps don't sag in the water when you sit on them. This option is over the top strengthwise, making the AKA bar system into an extremely strong truss type structure.
As long as you use a cinch knot on the spectra and wrap the line around the AKA bars, you can hang all kinds of things on those crazy buttons. For example my front buttons have my spray skirts ( that are super heavy duty so we can sit on them), that X line, the tramp bungy plus the ama bungy all on one button. On the rear I have the X line, plus our rope ladder (for climbing in the boat with scuba gear on), the rear spray skirt set (same heavy duty as the front spray skirts, (you can sit on them), but are seldom used, I only use them in the winter), i also have my spinnaker pulleys, for the spinnaker control lines attached to the buttons on a tiny loop of spectra wrapped around the AMA), then of course the AMA bungy. In other words those crazy buttons come in handy, (lol).
Not tryin to complicate things, just describing what we have.
Also keep in mind we are scuba divers who dive offshore in the keys far from shore at times, (coral reefs) we have the boat heavily modified and hardened for offshore use with massive sailsets, and big ole twin outboards. And typically have two scube tanks lashed to the rear AKA bar on each side. Not really what the boat was intended for (just sayin).
As I always state, I don't recommend taking Stock TI's out in open ocean especially off the keys unless you have a ton of ocean sailing experience, and local knowledge of the area, ( we live here,,, it's very dangerous water there with coral heads, strong currents, many areas too shallow to sail, and really un-predictable weather. A stock TI is not capable of being able to sail/peddle back to land, (next stop Cuba). Always know your boats real capabilities, (not imagined). Standard disclaimer.
FE


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 Post subject: Re: Defy's TI build
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:15 am 
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Thanks again. I will look at doing the x cross under the tramps. Also need to find some spray skirts.

Luckily i will not be doing huge off shore excursions. I just downloaded iSailor today and was playing with mapping out a route from my house to the nearest sand bar and its 3.2nm. So most of my time will be sailing from her to there. Let the kids play with mama while i putz back and forth trying to fly an ama (reliving my glory days with my old hobie). Then picking them up and heading home.

I will tinker with the TI but not really planing on crazy mods. Well that is unti you get your wing sail perfected and ready for the market ;)




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 Post subject: Re: Defy's TI build
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:52 am 
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Alright starting to rig the TI

Image

And i found this when inspecting the hull

Image

Where do they go? I felt around on the inside. To small for anything on the sail mast apparatus (i know very technical term there) only other thing i could find was maybe the screws that hold the plugs for the rod holders?


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 Post subject: Re: Defy's TI build
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Shakedown Cruise complete!

Sails great but i need to watch the tides more (didn't have to do that on the lake) until i get my fish finder installed. There are a few really shallow areas on my way out to the bay.

Got my new trailer so mods will start. Figured it would be easier to have them side by side instead of on top.

Image

Going to put the cradles on. Anyone use cradles and PVC bunks? Since i have 3 x-bars i figured use the cradles and then PVC pipe on third bar.

Side note Trailex is pretty awesome. Called and talked to them about getting some extra extrusion to extend the tongue (got the trailer on c-list and its the 450 setup for a small pontoon). The tech talked me through all the parts i would need and the prices were very reasonable. It's like big kid legos. With the extra pieces i will have i am going to build a rack for the sail and drives.


Image

Also need to open up the sail on the ground and cut the tell away it got sewn to the sail on one side.

Next need to add the h rails and wire it up for the finder.

More to come.



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 Post subject: Re: Defy's TI build
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:24 pm 
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Looking good! I switched to just PVC bunks last year and definitely don't regret it. The cradles made it hard to pull the TI on and off the trailer and they didn't last but 1 season before they were all busted up.

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  • Kayakbob's Sprayskirts
  • Spine Board Hakas


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