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 Post subject: Prioritizing Accessories
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:46 pm
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My wish list includes:

Beach Dolly ($1000)
Spinnaker ($600)
Splash Guards (Bob's for $200)
Cover ($250)
Trampoline ($400)

Yikes it sure starts to add up.
The Beach Dolly is practically a done deal. I had a new Seitech Dolly ($475) from a prior boat and bought the Trailer Cradles, Trailer Extension Tube and 2nd Axle Tube.
I'll be able to keep the boat on this because it will have the same support as a trailer.

Trampoline seems a no brainer. We want our dogs with us, but will probably never sail with them, unless maybe if it's a really light wind. We'll see.

I bought the cover but might return it. If the Dolly handles really easy I could wheel the boat under a protected structure very close by.
Wheeling it there and back might take as long as taking the cover off and on. Not sure how heavy boat will be to wheel around with Amas only on.

My priority is ease of get in and go (that includes sail and no sail). But will probably always have Trampoline on for dogs when not sailing.

We have never typically sailed out all that far on prior boats because it involves some turns and dead zones so we might venture out further with mirage powered sailboat.

So the real question is Spinnaker and Splash Guards.
I'm concerned with extra setup and extra lines taking the fun out of it.

Also we'll probably only run the boat till Mid October. But the water can start getting fairly cold soon.
I want things to be as pleasant as possible for the wife and that includes being simple.

If she has a bad experience, like freezes her butt off by being drenched she may decide to never sail again.
But she hates things complicated too.

Any thoughts.

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2017 Tandem Island in Red. Lake sailing/kayaking in NH only.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:27 pm 
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The splash guards are only necessary for the front seat. They work well enough not to be without them, but you will still get some splashing.

The Spinnaker is nice but has limited practical usage (i.e. running and reaching only). At $639 it's not cheap. For only another $150 more or so you could buy a Suzuki motor which would really add to the versatility and safety of the boat, but only if you're inclined to want a motor. The farther you sail out the more you will need a motor. The TI is a fantastic boat except when difficult weather conditions overwhelm it. If you only sail short distances close to shore you should be ok, but if you venture somewhere where you can get into trouble if the weather suddenly turns bad, you will need a way to get to safety fast. Don't count on pedaling through heavy head winds and waves for any appreciable distance, and you'll need to be quite experienced and fearless if you plan to sail back in really bad conditions.

For cool weather sailing invest in some quality watertight jackets and pants if you plan to sail until October.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:32 pm 
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That’s great advice.

The lake it’s on is “only” 7 miles long by 3 miles wide.

But unforcasted, sometimes severe, storms can still come up quickly over the mountains.

Would any of the electric motor options make it nearly as safe as a gas option.
I really have no temptation to add a gas motor. But I have considered the electrics (but wasn’t thinking of a weather emergencies but more of just being too pooped to pedal if we lost wind we were planning on).

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Yeah the torqeedo option would work fine for that size lake. But its expensive.


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 Post subject: Prioritizing Accessories
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:04 pm 
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Yeah the torqeedo option would work fine for that size lake. But its expensive.

I have only used mine 2 times but it got me back 3 miles full speed (5-6mph) and only used 50% of the stock battery. My guess is about 6 miles at full speed. But where it really shines in using it with sailing. Put it a like 60w usage (throttle control tells you) while you sail and it gives you a little 1-2 mph boost and will go for a couple of hours like that.


That being said, i will still get the spin eventually just to play with it and make myself a better sailor. I figured i could find a used one eventually.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:25 am 
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mswlogo wrote:
That’s great advice.

The lake it’s on is “only” 7 miles long by 3 miles wide.

But unforcasted, sometimes severe, storms can still come up quickly over the mountains.

Would any of the electric motor options make it nearly as safe as a gas option.
I really have no temptation to add a gas motor. But I have considered the electrics (but wasn’t thinking of a weather emergencies but more of just being too pooped to pedal if we lost wind we were planning on).

The Torqeedo 403 will get you out of all but the worst conditions where a maximum amount of thrust is required, such as trying to head into very strong winds and/or currents for a length of time. In these extreme conditions a gas motor would work best. If you plan to use a 403 in these extreme conditions, you will need an extra battery so you can use maximum thrust for as long as it's required.

Use of any motor on a TI is far better than nothing in adverse conditions. I personally would not go out in a TI again without a motor, especially with the safety of my passengers as my responsibility.

Unless you're an experienced and excellent sailor, use of the sail in high wind conditions can actually considerably increase the danger on a TI because the boat can flip over if you're not very careful. Even large sail boats often choose to furl their sails and use a motor to get to safety in a storm.

Once you choose to furl the sail on a motorless TI, you now are dependent upon the Mirage drives. I have found that it takes two people pedaling furiously for long periods of time to overcome heavy headwinds and currents. Forget about only one person pedaling in these conditions, you can't pedal fast enough, long enough to achieve an effective rudder. So unless you have two athletically fit people on board, I feel a motor should be seriously considered if you use the TI in areas where adverse weather or currents can occur and especially if you have children on board.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:32 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:16 pm
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Location: Colorado
I find that in Colorado where the lakes are smaller like 1 mile in diameter to even 6 miles by 1.5 miles, I prefer not to have the gas outboard along. If its very windy, I would rather be on the TI over any other sailing vessel I have owned (includes sailboats from 15 to 26 foot, H14, H16) just because of the huge wind range of the TI. No wind.. pedal. Extreme high wind.. pedal plus just a small triangle of sail. In about 8 years of owning first an AI and then a TI, I have never really felt like I needed the outboard as a safety item on these smaller lakes. On the other hand, the outboard is a major safety item on my 26 foot sailboat. Been sailing this summer in Colorado a few times, never really needed or wanted the outboard on the TI.

But.. when Im at a very long lake (like 40 miles), I almost always like having the outboard along as it allows me to do some "water hikes" in a day outing that might have taken several days without the outboard. The outboard extends your range, allows me to take some cool day trips I couldn't without the outboard.

When we went up to the San Juan Islands, I also very much liked having the outboard on the boat and in that case it was a combination of extending our range plus safety.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:59 am 
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I should mention that I sail on a very large body of water (140 miles) where conditions can be severe. If you sail only on small bodies of water where conditions never become severe, then factor that into your safety considerations and priorities.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:31 am 
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My first two accessories were:
The $40 beach wheels (they work fine where I live)
The Spinnaker kit.

You're right that setting up the spinnaker increases time required getting into the water.
For me it adds 20+ minutes.

That said, I find it well worth it.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:51 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:59 am
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Location: Cleveland, OH
Cover is essential. Dust and daylight happen in even covered spaces. There are good, fitted, inexpensive aftermarket cover choices available - check ebay etc.

I'm too cheap to Torqeedo, but an $89 Watersnake 24# thrust mounts directly to a spineboard haka and works quite well in protected waters, esp. with some lazy flips of the pedals.

Hakas are better than tramps, full stop.

I would not go into open water above 25kts- waves are more limiting to a TI than absolute wind. @25 Kts wind on protected water, using about 1/3 sail and pedaling aerobically, the TI goes 5.5 knots thru the water with a VMG over 4kts because the pedals put you at 35 degrees or better true wind angle.

It's underappreciated is how fast the TI can get upwind under combined sail and pedal power compared to virtually any Kayak or non-extreme sailing dinghy.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:23 am 
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 8:06 pm
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Location: Laem Sing, Chanthaburi, Thailand
pro10is wrote:
Use of any motor on a TI is far better than nothing in adverse conditions. I personally would not go out in a TI again without a motor, .


I absolutely agree. The outboard was one of my first accessories. I usually sail alone here in Thailand and never without the outboard. Should the weather deteriorate suddenly I want to be safely ashore as quickly as possible, regardless of whether or not the wind, seas or tide are favorable. I would prioritize safety.

Regards
John


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:47 pm 
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bluelaser2 wrote:
Cover is essential. Dust and daylight happen in even covered spaces. There are good, fitted, inexpensive aftermarket cover choices available - check ebay etc.



I think I’ve convince myself to go with no cover.

The reason is mice and similar creatures.
If I cover it the odds of making it their home increase dramatically.

It won’t get much sunlight or rain. But if it’s a driving rain it will get wet.

I’ve had mice ruin several sails. Moved into my Kubota tractor air cleaner twice (chewed wires).
And moved into covered barbecue often twice a year.
Lived in motor boat trailer tubing and ate trailer light wiring. (Same boat trailer that is in the photo below).
I’m worried about the sail too (also in photo).
It won’t be any safer in the boat house near by.

If it’s open they won’t bother it.

I think this is the best compromise.

Image

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2017 Tandem Island in Red. Lake sailing/kayaking in NH only.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:59 am
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Location: Cleveland, OH
mmmm Red absorbs the most UV of any colour. I'd tent the cover and add some mouse baits or traps- once a hull gets chalky there is really no bringing it back...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:55 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:12 am
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Location: Foley, AL and Enterprise, AL
I went sailing solo last week in winds that where forecast to be 12 to 15 mph. Everything went well for a while because I was in fairly protected waters. The weather suddenly started to gust up to 25 to 30 so I decided to head back to the launch. I had to furl over half the sail and was trying to work my way up wind. I discovered that even peddling as fast as I could I was making almost no head way, plus I was at risk of being pushed into docks full of expensive boats. I called uncle and cranked my Honda 2.3 hp and furled the sail and chugged to the ramp safely and in complete control. I was very glade I had that little outboard otherwise I am sure my TI and I would have some bruises at best today. Go for safety first. When you need an outboard nothing else will do.


Last edited by CobraIP on Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:35 pm 
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bluelaser2 wrote:
mmmm Red absorbs the most UV of any colour. I'd tent the cover and add some mouse baits or traps- once a hull gets chalky there is really no bringing it back...


It won’t see direct sun where it is.

I had an old town kayak in red that I just left out not even under the canopy (but also still sees very little sun) and it looked fine after a 8 years.

You can’t set mouse traps in the woods. They will endlessly be tripped and you’ll just attract them.

Part of the reason we have the boat is to kayak out into the sun !!!

Absolutely gorgeous sunset last night and I didn’t have my phone darn it.

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