Aka extensions.

I did Fusioneng aka bar extinsions two days ago and I am very happy with the results with only one test trip in light winds. My T I is a 2016. I am posting some pictures to show other members the numbers of my modification extension pipes. They are make of marine grade aluminum and they fit perfectly. I tapped the underside for SS 3/4” machine screws. I used 100% clear silicon to glue them in place and then covered the Akas with black gorilla tape ( no picture )running long ways. It takes three strips.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Well done and quality metal work. I can imagine stability is greatly improved. Let us know what effect it has on pointing and tacking.

Looks so good I don't think I would cover it up with anything!

_________________
Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

Pretty identical to what I did, been running this way for quite a while now with no ill effects, makes the boat pretty much un capsizable. Ended up being one of the best mods (who knew ( lol)).
I recommend using safety lines on the AMA's because the mod puts even more stress on the AKA nylon sheer bolts, ( more leverage).
FE

Nice work!! I will considering this in the years to come. I goto try getting "plashed" a couple of times first. I have not yet had the "satifaction" of capsizing! LOL!
Thanks for sharing!
/ Gustav

_________________
Sailing my TI and fishing.... thats bliss!!

I do use safety lines. I took it out today with around 9 or 10 mph winds. The boat handled better than normal. I had a few gust that would have sunk the amas but this time they never sank more than half. I am looking forward to trying it out in 15 mph winds. Thanks for your ideas. My next project will be your stearn modification. You think it up and I will copy. Your winged jib has me thinking.

Understand that this modification will void the warranty coverage for akas, crossbars, connectors, mast, receiver cup... anything that would be stressed at higher levels due to the ability to add more power due to this increased stability.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Thanks for the info but I assumed complete responsibility when I made this modification. I am not so much interested in more speed I want my TI to be turtle proof. I have been a helicopter instructor pilot for over 40 years and I always assume if something can go wrong it will.
Thanks again
Bill

This is a safety option that I feel Hobie should endorse and perhaps even manufacture and sell themselves rather than distance themselves from. Anything that makes a product safer should be embraced.

I had a very frightening experience this summer where my TI almost flipped in a sudden, unpredicted storm. I was extremely fortunate it didn't because I don't think I would have had time to right it in such harsh conditions before I was washed onto nearby rock cliffs by four foot waves. For the first time ever in nearly four decades of boating I felt that my life was in danger. This modification probably would prevent a capsize in such conditions.

From reading this forum I think it's clear that most, if not all, TI owners would like better protection from capsizing.

Is the TI's propensity to capsize actually considered a fail safe for ensuring the safety of components such as the mast? If so then that's absurd and I have a hard time believing that would intentionally be integrated into the design. I'll gladly pay for a new mast any day if my life and/or the life of my passenger was saved.

I think the safety of the crew is clearly more important than the safety of components which might be more stressed. I don't understand Hobie's priorities here unless they place warranty issues over the safety of their customers, which I simply cannot believe to be the case. Hobie is an excellent company and would never do that.

If the TI can be designed either by Hobie or its customers to be considerably less likely to capsize, then that is a most welcome change.

Put me down as one who feels the TI is just fine as it is.
Seven years of TI sailing without capsize, in all weathers and on both enclosed/open waters, tells me that the TI does not have a propensity to capsize. It would have to be one of the most stable sailing boats available and whilst capsizes can happen they are extremely rare.
Any design is a compromise between safety, cost, size, weight etc and Hobie have got it pretty much right with this most versatile of designs.
Whilst I applaud the quality of this mod to me it is completely unnecessary. I certainly don’t want a wider boat. As it is now some narrower boat ramps, creeks etc can only just be negotiated. What happens when you collapse the longer aka bars? Do the AMA extend past the rudder?
The extra weight, bulk, increased forces, higher possibility of aka pin breaking and voiding of warranty to solve a problem that doesn’t really exist makes no sense to me!

The modifications are beautiful and your workmanship is amazing CoralIP. Great job !!! I love modifying my boat but have to agree with Stringy that the TI or AI does NOT have the propensity to capsize. Extending the akas is not something that most people I sail with would request pro10is. There is no problem with these boats capsizing if you pay attention to the conditions and appropriately reef the sail and/or hike out on hakas or your tramps. I've been sailing islands for 10 years in some extremely bad conditions. Most capsizes happen when the aka folds in because the pin breaks. Keep out lines will prevent that.

Today my wife and I were out in our TI with winds gusting to about 25mph. We had a blast but I always had my hand on the sheet ready to spill air if it gusted too wildly. We stayed reefed most of the day and I spent a lot of time hiked out on hakas. The sail was bent way over and I knew we were on the edge of the limits but I felt confident we were absolutely safe and would not capsize. When the rudder starts getting soft because the ama is buried in the water is your wake up call to reef more. By extending the akas, you probably won't bury the amas as easily and realize you're pushing the limits because the rudder was overpowered. Maybe more apt to stress out the boat, especially the mast as Matt mentioned.

Just make sure you use keep out lines and lines to keep the akas from disconnecting. These boats are engineered well so I don't worry about capsize. Not like those poor souls sailing catamarans.

Without engaging in politics and ethics ..........EVERYTHING...... we own or use has the potential for injury. As conscientious, thinking adults we (should) weigh our personal risk/reward options of cars, motorcycles, boats, roller skates, scooters, bicycles, swimming in the ocean etc., etc., etc. If due diligence does not satisfy your personal criteria - then don't purchase or use that specific item.

What we should not accept or allow is the 'safety police' legislating 'belt and suspenders' for everything in life or threatening litigious liability for every product manufactured. Even space craft fail...............

Having sailed multiple Hobie models, as well as other brands, I choose to sail in open water with Hobies for enjoyment, durability, and safety.

What Stringy, CaptnChaos, & Cooldude said +1

In years of sailing the AI, AI2, and TI's, I've never heard of a TI capsizing. Fit them with keep out lines and there should be very little danger...approaching zero possibility. What other small sailing craft can claim this?

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Wow, I'm perplexed by some of the overconfidence here. Words like "absolutely safe" and "approaching zero possibility" are an overreach when you are out on the open water and exposed to changing weather conditions in any small craft, and should not be in any safe sailboater's vocabulary, yet I too will admit to some overconfidence with the TI up until this year.


You've never heard of a TI capsizing?? This is simply not true Keith, you know that. Right here in this forum there have been several reports of TI's capsizing, mostly from aka shear pin instances, but some without. All anyone needs to look at is the sticky thread at the head of this forum posted by Hobie themselves entitled Island Safety - Righting an Island where the first line is "This video could save a life...". That thread is all about recovering from a TI capsize. And I can tell all of you first hand from recent personal experience that there is a much more than a zero possibility of a capsize even without a shear pin failure and that you can never be absolutely safe on the water. My near capsize occurred in 25-35 mph gusting winds and 3-4 foot waves with the sail furled 75% and with no aka issues. It happened very suddenly, due to a bad, unpredicted storm. I was teetering at a 45 degree angle for what seemed like an eternity, and one more wind gust or wave in the right direction could have easily had me upside down. Up until that point I too was (over)confident like some of you that a capsize was not a concern with keep out lines, but now I know better and will plan accordingly. Maybe it was a once in a lifetime occurrence, but it did happen and can possibly happen again. Consider yourself fortunate if it has never yet happened to you, but someday you also may have a story to tell. I do credit the design of the TI for the fact that this was only a near capsize, the boat recovered once I was able to regain control. However, no one should be so emboldened to think that their sailing skills and/or the the TI's design, or keep out lines will ensure their safety and make a capsize of little or no concern in dangerous conditions. This can happen to anyone given the right conditions, make no mistake about that, your life and the life of your passenger may depend upon it. Anyone here telling people anything else otherwise, especially to inexperienced TI owners, could potentially cost someone their life.

I'm heartened that many of you are loyal to the TI, as am I, it's one of the best and most enjoyable boats I've ever owned, and I've owned many. I always highly recommend it to all who approach me to inquire about it. It is well designed and seaworthy as long as conditions do not exceed its capabilities. However, like most small sailboats, it is certainly not immune to a capsize. The sea and bad weather can capsize any size boat, everyone knows this or certainly should know this. When I used the word "propensity" it was not intended to mean the TI is not well designed or likely to capsize, only that a small, lightweight sailboat, even with amas, is more apt to capsize in bad conditions than a larger, heavier boat. The TI is considerably more resistant than other small sailboats because of its amas, but a capsize still can and does happen, and can happen to you. When it almost happened to me I was not being unsafe or using the TI in unsafe conditions, I have nearly four decades of boating experience with many kinds of watercraft and with bad weather at sea. I was not far from shore nor did I intentionally take the boat out in bad conditions, I always check the weather before heading out. I found myself in this situation quite suddenly and unexpectedly. Nor did it have to do with sailing skills, I was rammed by a large wave during a very strong wind gust, this is not always preventable during a storm when swirling winds and roiling waves can come at you from all directions very violently.

If you feel this particular safety and stability modification is not for you, then of course that is fine, but I feel it has merit and any modification that improves the safety of the TI, such as keep out lines and aka pull out preventers, deserves due consideration by both the manufacturer and the owners.

I took my TI out yesterday in small craft warning conditions near Orange Beach, AL. I launched from a very protected launch (Josephine) near Perdido Bay and thought that I would be able to sail in the lee of a point of land; however, the winds were more out of the south than reported. I found myself in three foot waves and very gusty winds, up to 25 mph. The boat handled perfectly but I soon furled half the sail and sailed for about fifteen minutes watching everything very closely. The ride was fairly ruff and wet but amas never went more than halfway under water. After my brief shake down cruise I decided to return to the launch. I don’t enjoy getting slammed around in large waves anymore. I have owned many boats ranging from Houseboats too Twin engine jet boats (Seado Speedster). I sail most of the time by myself from the back seat; therefore, I am unable to hike out to stabilize my TI in strong gust. I am also not as nimble as I use to be so my aka extensions are there to give me a little safety edge. I never sail without safety lines. My safety lines run from the rear aka mount to the rear eye on the amas. I do this because I can undo them from my seat if I need to swing them in when returning to a narrow launch site. When fully folded the amas are about one to two inches behind the stearn and do not enter fear with the rudder. When I sail I carry one paddle and one extendable boat hook. I use the boat hook to lower and raise the digger board and it comes in very handy when I launch and recover the boat. I have soft shackles on the front eye and on all four ama eyes. I can grab any of them with the boat hook as necessary and I can use the boat hook to push the ass end of the boat around when I am loading it on the trailer. I have enjoyed reading all the comments on my post. I wasn’t quite expecting them since Fusioneng aka Bob has already done the same thing. I was just showing the dimensions in case anyone else was interested and I wanted to save them sometime. Thanks for all your thoughtful comments.
Bill

Extra stability makes for a much more enjoyable sail. When I substituted TI amas on my AI, I never went back. More stability means using tramps in higher winds, showing more sail to go faster and just relaxing more.

Today I feel that same level of stability with the AI2. I don't feel it the same way in the TI. I've had a few close calls in TIs in higher winds. Although I would not do the mod, I understand why someone would.

_________________
Greg

2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis