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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:18 am 
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Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Another reason I can’t trailer (since I will be a full time nomad and want the boat with me all the time) is that free camping involves dispersed camping in BLM land or Walmart parking lots and the like. A 20 foot boat trailer on the back of a 24 foot motorhome is gonna be really noticeable and also makes for a 40 plus foot rig.

This would reduce the number of national parks I can get into from %93 to just %7!

Very few national parks have room for 40 foot rigs and it’s not like many of them have double wide camping spots so I can put the trailer next to my RV.

This is why the box truck solution is appealing— I get the boat and an RV all in under 25 feet!




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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:21 am 
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I am not sure what is the classic wave. Going from the one in the Hobie site, I could fit it in the rig, but I would have to put the mast in the box diagonally. Looks like it would be more hassle to rig and deploy, but OTOH, better sailing performance. Have to think about it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:35 am 
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Sailorv wrote:
1) It would really benefit you to go to a kayak shop that has both the AI and TI and try them out.

However, from my observation, because I have a sailing background it has been no issue but for some they may get intimidated.

3) From what you have divulged as your sailing ownership views and the kind of sailing you want I would get a TI and just tow it. Besides, most box truck conversions have the bed in the loft to best utilize space anyhow, unless you do a hydraulic bed at the door like a TH. Why not buy a truck and TC and tow it?.


Thanks! I have finally doing a TI and AI in Texas and spent a good hour checking them out. Unfortunately I can’t rent them, but I’m not in the least bit worried, I know I will enjoy whichever one I get.

I have raced monohulls a fair bit on long races and single handed my 30 foot sailboat and lived aboard for years. I’m not sure how much I’ll like getting more wet with the TI, but not too worried about it.

Absolutely going to get a spinnaker.

In your message you talked about getting a “TC” and a “TH” and I’m not sure what you mean.

I could put the bed up in the peak next to the boat, actually and have been exploring that but the ladder to get up there would be right by the cab access door so not sure it makes sense— but putter no the bed under the boat works fine.

A 16 foot long box (3 feet for the peak) that’s 8 feet wide is a YUUUGE amount of space to work with. So even with the boat in there I have lots of room to make this as luxurious as I want, or not.

I don’t see a problem or downside it being in the box truck — so I don’t get why so many are advising me to tow it on a trailer— which has lots of downsides.

Probably because my situation is so different— traveling full time with no set schedule, no home for the trailer— and I don’t think everyone figured out that I was putting it in the box truck and probably difficult to imaging the rigging I’m planning because nobody has done it before.

Im not worried, I’ve worked with winches and extruded aluminum before, used to build combat robots and this boat is so light it will be way over engineered just using my default materials.



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:48 am 
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Totch wrote:
Get the trailer! :)


Thanks for mentioning trailex. That’s a very minimalist trailer.

Alas another forum member has shown how to attach wheels to the TI itself do that’s even more minimalist... but I like the trailex 8” wheels, might just use those as the wheels.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:56 am 
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By the way, went and looked at my original post— my question was/is all about whether I should get a TI or an AI for a single person.

I mentioned offhand that I wouldn’t be trailering it, and this has sparked some debate about whether I should car top it or trailer it— but those are not the two options. I have a solution for having the boat with me all the time.

I want to know whether I should get the TI over the AI as I’m considering.

Also one of the reasons I was considering the TI is I wanted to have powered propulsion as well as my own leg pumped mirage drive.

Recently a Hobie dealer was suggesting I get a small outboard for it, rather than the electric mirage drive.

I’m leaning towards electric, because less Internal combustion engines in my life the better.... but the Hobie evolve is really expensive, very nice, but expensive.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:00 pm 
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jay2018 wrote:
I am not sure what is the classic wave. Going from the one in the Hobie site, I could fit it in the rig, but I would have to put the mast in the box diagonally. Looks like it would be more hassle to rig and deploy, but OTOH, better sailing performance. Have to think about it.


Wave masts are 2 piece: a 12' aluminum extrusion, and a 7' composite top that slips into the lower aluminum section.

There are two Wave models: The "Classic" and the "Club." The difference is the trampolines. The Club tramp, in order to break down the boat, must be unlaced.
The Classic tramp is a One piece that is designed for quick assembly/ disassembly.
The Club may come standard with a jib, which is an option on the Classic.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:38 pm 
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Pescatoral Pursuit wrote:
The Classic tramp is a One piece that is designed for quick assembly/ disassembly.
.


Thanks. The local Hobie sailboat dealer is nearby, and now I see they sell islands too so maybe they actually have them in stock (unlike the big name in town.)

I’ll look at a wave this weekend.




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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:00 am 
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Sorry Jay, my bad, a TC is a Truck Camper and a TH is Toy Hauler. A TC being the most compact style with full amenities RV (which you can unload and then go launch your Island) or Toy Hauler is a big trailer with a raised roof and garage door like how you wanna use a box truck. A TH is what I would roll with if I had the bucks and frequented places for RVs. A TH is what we would get if we didn't have our large dog (small footprint and no large trailer drama).

Good to hear you have that sailing experience and liveaboard too. You are no doubt well qualified for making the plans you are making.

Regarding the box truck living and Island storage......I guess, no offense here, but maybe apart of me suggests you tow, besides the obvious, because it may attract more company. :) Being sandwiched between my guy and a kayak in a loft bed doesn't exactly sound appealing. Although maybe I am the last kinda gal you would want next to you anyhow, ha!. We are rather experienced and well versed in the liveaboard/sailing community and I know some guys wishing they had ladies in their lifestyle and, my observation, is some most likely don't, despite being great men because their boat is too small or not enough amenties or are too dirty a lifestyle (bigger boat and more amenities usually fix this issue). Just keeping it real here.

We actually considered converting a box truck ourselves, so trust me I have a glimpse of what you are looking at. This is just my opinion and we all know the saying about opinions and a$$holes....everyone's got one. ;) So here's more of mine...

Schedule and freedom galore does not make up for a busted back from wrangling it up on top of an suv let alone higher in a box truck. The only way I see it as being doable is by electric winch. I remember a dock neighbor taking off to go cruising, fit guy about 50. It gave us the chills seeing him take off with a 15hp o/b on the rail with no o/b hoist or anything to help singlehand it off. He was pretty macho and cavalier about it but a neighbor with many thousands of cruising miles along with mine gave him a speech about getting an o/b hoist stat, otherwise his dream, his 3 year cruise could end very quickly, very fast. Suggesting the trailer is a bit like that, unless you get an electric winch (which you could) And/or a block and tackle with a lot of purchase, plus big wheels or a dolly.

We actually bought our TI with the intent of car topping it on an RV with an electric winch. We ditched this idea once we owned a TI (and together we have well over 30 years sailboat experience so we really talked it over).
You're an engineer, you know how much heavier it will be elevated and trying to move it over your head and getting it there in its spot. That's why everyone keeps saying trailer, it's a total pain, like a major pain, even for us with two people. I guess worse case you try it, if it doesn't work get a trailer so no big deal.

Good luck!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:07 am 
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Location: Northern California
We have an electric motor, not even very robust either, I think 35lbs.We use a motorcycle battery, half the size of others and enough for our needs. Can push out 4kts for about 45 mins, or 1.5 hrs around 2 kts. Super light, green and stealthily quiet. Easily clamp on an aka.
If you want get guests, sometimes, get a TI. Want an extra kt of speed and more capacity get a TI. Want none of that get an AI, especially if you want to stow it in the box truck.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:14 pm 
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Two new questions:
1. Does anyone have length measurements for the Amas for the TI and AI?
2. Is there a particular curve to the hulls that need to be conformed to by the PVC pipes in the pvc cradle method? I’m thinking about maybe putting the pvc a little higher along the hulls, so the boat sits lower in my cradle. Then the cradle plus boat is shorter overall.

SailorV—

Glad to hear you have considered this. I have been planning to use an electric winch— two in fact. One to lower the back of the cradle to the deck of the box, and a second connected to the bow to slowly lower the boat down its cradle until its stern is on the ground/the boat is on its beach cart (Or I have deployed its wheels).... with that method I should be able to use the winch to lower the boat completely out of the truck with no effort on my part.

By the way, the plan is for the bed to go under the boat in the floor not in the attic. This gives a space for the cradle to come down into during launch.... since vertical space over the bed isn’t used when you aren’t sleeping in it. But the boat will have to go in dry or I’ll have to have some water mitigation. Fortunately unlike every RV out there there will be no wood in this build. All aluminum, UHMW and some steel fasteners.

I have been looking at Truck campers too. Big advantage of them is shorter total vehicle length. Downside is inefficient use of space by having to conform to the Truck bed.

If I were to trailer it I would get an enclosed trailer to fit an electric bike and maybe any other toys too— keep the boat out of the elements and away from road debris. (With same launching mechanism I’m considering for the box truck.)

Either way the only exertion at launch I’m contemplating is pushing the boat to the water.

Sounds like you’re saying that towing a boat will attract women? Like a lure? LOL! Haha, anyway been there done that, happy being single now and not going to make any plans with attractiveness as a goal—- too many variables to solve as it is!

Did you know that once you get over 20 feet total vehicle length the fares on the Alaska Marine Highway double? Another argument for a truck camper.

Those toy haulers are nice and some allow you to open the garage into the living space, so I could have the boat sticking all the way thru. (Most garages are only 10-15 feet by themselves). They are good value for the money, but would still cost a lot because I’d have to buy a truck to tow it. Well I have to buy a truck anyway.

But the zero effort winch based launch system is easy for me to build. I know everyone is imagining man handling the boat on top of a 11 foot rig, but I’m not interested in that at all— plus I could fit up to 4kw of solar up there! Valuable real estate!

The space under the boat should be totally usable. In theory I won’t have to even stoop to get under the boat, but if that doesn’t work out it’s primarily Bed, a sitting area and shelves. Shower and fridge go on the other dude.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:20 pm 
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Also, hadn’t been planning an o/b so didn’t think of an o/b hoist. But an outboard attaches to an aka means I don’t need the second person spot of the TI, and getting an AI would make for some flexibility in the choice of box trucks. They will build me whatever box I want but there’s limits on size for size of vehicle. I do find myself looking at Freightliner a with 24 foot boxes occasionally but don’t want the 37 foot LOA it comes with.

At any rate will have to store the outboard separately and will build a hoist for it.

Truth is, I’m lazy, and want all of this to be as convenient as possible... and stress free. Towing us stress, a second set of wheels to think about, cuts my ability to go to national parks significantly, etc.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:46 pm 
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OMG Just watched a video of s Guy winter sailing in lake union (Seattle) in a TI. Loved it. Will have to get a dry suit though.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:28 am 
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Sailorv wrote:
Sorry Jay, my bad, a TC is a Truck Camper and a TH is Toy Hauler. A TC being the most compact style with full amenities RV (which you can unload and then go launch your Island) or Toy Hauler is a big trailer with a raised roof and garage door like how you wanna use a box truck. A TH is what I would roll with if I had the bucks and frequented places for RVs. A TH is what we would get if we didn't have our large dog (small footprint and no large trailer drama).

Good luck!


So previously all the Toy Haulers I had seen were trailers, like you said, very nice but garage is only 10 feet and I don’t want to tow.... but tonight I happened to stumble across the Thor Outlaw - which I had seen before, but was a Class A— and I don’t drive things without airbags!

But now I discover they have a class C version—. Would mean disassembling the TI more than I would have to jn the box truck and running it thru the garage door into the living area somehow, and also giving up 5 feet of extra length (about %9 of the National Park campgrounds.)

But I wouldn’t have to build it all out myself.

And as much as I want to be innovative, at this stage I don’t need that big of a project... so thinking this might be a good solution for the next ten years or so. By then my needs will have changed, I bet.

Anyway, thanks for bringing up Toy Haulers again.

Will go look at some of these outlaws this week, see if it seems feasible. (Price is certainly right.)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:00 am 
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Jay:
We do pretty much what your taking about doing, and have around 200k road miles pulling our camper with hobies on the roof of the tow vehicle. We were out about 6 months this summer and visited 41 of the 59 national parks this summer.
We currently have a keystone outback 298re, which is 29 ft long with 3 slideouts, (slide out's are pretty important for comfort). We put the TI on the tow vehicle. It all works, but is not ideal.
If you go to rvtrader.com you can see lots of pics of the thor class c c29j toy hauler, that's the one we have been scoping out trying to figure some way to get a TI in there. Suspending from the ceiling might be doable while traveling with the nose over the bed over the cab. However getting thru the doorway going back to the cargo area, the boat would need to be slid thru on it's side, then laid down and pulled up to the ceiling on an electric platform of some sort.
I think you are underestimating the amount of work it takes to convert a box truck into a viable RV. You need the toilet, frig, water tanks, stove, oven, heating and air conditioning systems if you plan to live in the thing, that's a whole lot of very expensive work and planning.
At most parks the length restrictions are for the camper itself, and doesn't include the tow vehicle, this goes both ways, including trailers and class C and A or homes, if you are towing a car, the car is separated before you go into the park, then driven to the campsite. Personally I think it would be really awkward to not have a separate vehicle to go out to eat and grocery, sightseeing , etc. It's pretty awkward driving any big rig or truck thru town.
We just returned from a week long off the grid dry camping trip at Juniper springs (florida), off the grid camping is harder than it sounds. We tend to not normally stay in the national parks, (though we do on occasion) we prefer nearby private parks with full hookup and electric/water, and most important wifi and good cell service, most of the big national and state parks have little to no cell service.
Our camper has the arctic package, and is insulated (kinda important).
Don't count on many walmarts allowing you to park in their lots overnight, especially in the south, most no longer allow that.
If you planning to be in the south west or anywhere south (ie, texas, florida, etc) when it's hot, AC is almost a must, so you need to think that thru also, most PV solar systems can't do AC well, and most parks don't allow generators at night, besides generators are expensive to run, and very annoying.
Since our TI is our only family boat and we use it for boat offshore, (we live near the ocean), and inland (mostly as a kayak). Yea we have massive sailsets, and outboards on ours, and the boat is hardened for offshore (because our favorite pastime is scuba diving). We always bring all that stuff along but seldom use all the extras when inland, (all the extras stay bak at the campsite).
I'm not recommending anything here, (do what you want), I'm just sharing some of the stuff we do and think about. We are not satisfied with what we have and are also thinking about a better solution.
FE


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:14 pm 
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Jay,

I think your plans on the box truck sound good, actually. One of the reasons we ditched that idea ourselves was as soon as you add a window to a box truck conversion there goes your stealth camping and anonymity. No way we would be windowless. Also, it still could be a pretty expensive endeavor so we said why not just get an rv?

We also realized, maybe down the road with a different lifestyle, being in a more urban environment roof topping a TI on an RV may be just too ridiculous in the Bay Area. Being long time sailors we try to take the kiss approach (keep it simple) and went with a camper van. It feels a lot more comfortable driving it than some 24' rv. For us and what we want to do it makes sense.

Regarding TH Class Cs, my partner is really talented, has restored and customized countless boats and cars, he talked about moving things around on a class c and adding his own TH door. Really, if you are single (don't mind the cabover bed) why not consider that? You definitely sound capable of doing it. Just a thought.....

The less of a project plan, instead of a TC door, was thru a model with a large rear window, rear dinette models seemed to work, making it into an opening one and stowing the Island thru there in slings and removing the head door and putting in a drape in so we could still access it. We measured it and found we would need one too long an rv for us to be able to fully stow the TI, AI would have worked in the 22' we had in mind.

What's wrong with a class b? Under 20 (usually 19'), perfect for a single person and trailer the island. Or are you saying AK will charge you that higher fee because they measure a boat trailer too?

Last thing. Having read what you said, imho, it sounds like an AI is for you. If weight isn't an issue and money is a plenty maybe the AI2? The TI will definitely give you more floation and space for expedition gear. I definitely feel more confident in heavier wind and seastate knowing I'm at 18.5 vs 16.5 and heavier. From what you say though I would be looking at an AI if I were you. Once you try both and get pretty solid in your vehicle plans no doubt the decision will be obvious.

Sailirv

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