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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:28 pm 
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First off, I’m not rushing into this, cause when I sold my sailboat years ago I vowed to never buy a sailboat again! It was a great boat, I loved it and still miss it, but the maintenance exceeded my The fun threshold for me.

Secondly, I’m borderline retired. My job lets me work from anywhere and so I’m going to start living the #vanlife soon. That’s the current project.

But I think an Island would be a good addition to this new lifestyle— gives me something to do with bodies of water other than just look at them.

So my first question: I had planned to get a tandem Island (I’m single) and put an electric mirage drive in the second location. I love the idea of three modes of power, and want to sail in waters that I know well and know I want to be ready for anything (namely puget sound area).

But I’m thinking I That might be just too much for a solo person. I won’t be trailering it, I want to avoid that hassle or it will live out its days on the trailer in storage— I want to have it with me all the time so I can use it spontaneously.

Is there a big difference in handling / launching and stowing the TI and AI for a single person?

For ocean kayaking in fall and spring weather (lots of wind but chop and occasional unexpected rain) is there a difference in performance?




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:24 pm 
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Welcome!
Since you would be solo the majority of the time and you want to car top I would recommend going with an AI vs a TI. I've launched my TI solo quite a few times and without a trailer it would be too much for one person (unless you're Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson). The islands won't be anything like you're previous sailboat with regards to maintenance. I've had mine for almost 3 seasons now and the trailer has needed more maintenance than the boat. Good luck with the van life!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:35 am 
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Unless you really must have the sail option, you would be better off purchasing a smaller, lighter Hobie kayak with a mirage drive for your stated purpose.

At 18.5 feet and 240 lbs the TI is way too large and heavy to car top and handle by one person in my opinion, especially on a van or a camper. Yes, people have done it, but they must be very, very strong and agile or they have invested quite a bit of effort in devising a loading/unloading rig. If you're concerned about the "fun threshold" or what I call the "hassle factor", then you definitely don't want to car top a TI, that'll suck all the fun out of it and you risk injury. The TI should be trailered, and then it's very manageable.

You can try an AI but these too are quite large and heavy in comparison with a smaller kayak. They weight 185 lbs and are 16.5 feet. Go to a Hobie dealer or a boat show and have a good look at one before you decide. I wouldn't try to car top that either unless I was much younger and stronger. If you're near retirement you could end up hurting your back or something else trying to muscle such a big kayak on and off of a van roof every time you want to go out on the water. If you're hell bent to try, search this forum for the rigs people have come up with to car top AI's.

Hobie offers a great range of other kayaks with mirage drives that are significantly smaller and lighter and very capable of using in the Puget Sound. Some weigh only 65 lbs. These would be much better suited to your purpose. They too will take the electric motor. Hobie even offers a sail kit for them if you must have a sail, although of course, they won't sail as well as a TI or AI. Take a good look at all the Hobie kayaks before you decide.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:43 am 
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Try both and see, then make the decision. I prefer the tandem even when solo, as it is faster and more stable. But I use a trailer, even the single is tough to put on a rack. You may need to modify the plan to transport these. Or move to a smaller. lighter yak. we have an island, single, no sail and it is pretty easy to load on the roof. But nowhere near the fun or range. If you have any sailor left in your blood, you will end up in the TI. An amazing boat that can bring performance sailing back to the older population.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:07 am 
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Having started in sailing dinghies, I wouldn't classify the Island series as sailboats. Some may disagree.
I have an electric motor mounted to my Adventure Island. Not in the mirage well, but side-saddle behind the rear crossbar, which allows for the mirage drive to be used in conjunction.
The main hull of the older Adventure Island weighs 80#. I believe the new one is over 100#. I can imagine the main hull of the Tandem weighs between 120 and 160.
It sounds like you are looking for the stability of a trimaran in big water. You won't get that, combined with any kind of performance with any other sail-rigged kayak.
Maintenance compared to a sailboat is near zero unless you just like to beat up and abuse your boat. No shrouds, or stays. Don't drag the plastic across pavement or concrete, or thousands of yards of sand, or beat up the mirage drive and well by over stroking. Don't over power the sail. (You know this when the leeward pontoon is submerged.)
Every few years you may or not, have to replace rudder lines, or fins, but hobie kayaks really are built tough and durable.
I would recommend you tubing folks car topping and sailing both models if you can't get your hands on one or both.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:56 am 
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We have a motorhome and tow a Jeep Wrangler with us. So we have to car top our Tandem Island. Neither my wife or 2 daughters have much upper body strength. With all 4 of us we have been able to load the Tandem Island. But, instead I purchased a Rhino Rack side boat loader which uses a drill to load the boat up a ramp. This way I can do everything myself.

I have had Hobie cats before and when I was a kid my parents had larger sailboats. Anyhow, the cats were much faster and more fun, but they can't be cartopped. And the Islands allow much more flexibility including fishing, and better for exploring.

There are a couple of other times that the extra weight of a Tandem Island comes into play. By yourself, it will be harder to drag the Tandem Island around even with wheels. And you need to make sure any rack you have can handle the weight.

I haven't tried the single Island, but if it were just be, I would get it instead of the Tandem Island. If I could, I would certainly prefer trailering instead of cartopping.

If you want more of a sailing experience, you can get the spinnaker kit. We just tried our a couple of weeks ago, but there was barely any wind. Then one time we had enough wind to put up the spinnaker, it was much more fun and speed increased from 1.1 to 2.4 mph.

David

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:14 pm 
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jay2018 wrote:

But I’m thinking I That might be just too much for a solo person. I won’t be trailering it, I want to avoid that hassle or it will live out its days on the trailer in storage— I want to have it with me all the time so I can use it spontaneously.



We bought a TI. I have done many solo trips. We Car top. Took a lot of planning and work on the car roof rack and the addition of DYI custom wheels to the boat.

Have a look at my posts.

https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=59743

and

https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=62019


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:22 am 
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paranoid wrote:
We bought a TI. I have done many solo trips. We Car top. Took a lot of planning and work on the car roof rack and the addition of DYI custom wheels to the boat.

The key word there is "we". With two people to share the load most of the time it's more manageable. He said he was single which means he'll have to muscle it himself every time.

Yes, you said you solo and it can be done with one person, but is it really worth risking your back? Once you throw out your back you can also throw out your entire boating season. I speak from experience. Even if you're in excellent shape you can still throw out your back solo loading a TI onto a roof. This should be a key consideration for most people.

He also said he has a van which is significantly higher than an Outback, making the task even harder.

For most people, if you want a TI you'll be so much happier with a trailer. If I've learned anything it's this: Always consider the hassle factor when choosing your recreational equipment, it's vital to your enjoyment.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Pescatoral Pursuit wrote:
Having started in sailing dinghies, I wouldn't classify the Island series as sailboats. Some may disagree. SNIP

OK, Well I will...
You have a ridiculously narrow definition of "sailboats". Evidently, your definition covers lightweight off-the-beach sailboats, and excludes everything else.
What are the features of Islands that disqualify them?
Furlable sail
Miragedrive
Multiple hulls (all of the above removable of course)

Nope, these are significant advantages, rather than defects

Perhaps you also disqualify high performance cruising catamarans (look up La Vagabonde on Youtube) capable of 25 knots while on autopilot from your definition.

SXorry.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:02 pm 
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TI_Tom wrote:
Welcome!
I've launched my TI solo quite a few times and without a trailer it would be too much for one person (unless you're Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson). The islands won't be anything like you're previous sailboat with regards to maintenance.


First off I want to thank everyone who has replied. My first post left out some pertinent details.

I'm a software engineer whose in the past had mechanical engineering hobbies. I built combat robots, had a machine shop in my garage, etc.

I have a remote work position that I can do from anywhere, and I'm on the verge of retirement, which means, if I lost this job, for instance, I wouldn't look for another one.

I've decided to exploit this situation by changing my lifestyle from the sedentary one of a programmer to someone who is traveling full time. I have experience traveling full time (did it world wide for half a decade) and living in small space and going on long journeys.

So, what I'm in the process of doing right now is designing my rig. My land yacht, so to speak.

The current plan is a 16 morgan box with a 3 foot peak on a Ram 4500 Cab Chassis-- that is to say, a box truck with a roof that is 20 feet long. This was designed specifically to house the Hobie Tandem Island. I would build a cradle to hold the hobie up at the roof, with living space below it (I've been measuring everything and making sure things fit.)

The TI cradle will have a short slide and be hinged, the TI will rest either on the hobie cradle mounts, or the PVC pipe DIY version I've seen on this forum.

Let me show you what the box looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcEvXuWU-2c

Now picture, after lowering that ramp, a cradle lowers from the back (via winch) almost to the bottom of the box. The Hobie has landing gear (wheels) mounted on it / or is on a portable dollie. The bow of the hobie is held in place with another winch at the front of the cradle.... and so when this is loosened the hobie slides down off of the cradle onto the ramp, rolling on its own wheels/dolly.... it could be lowered all the way to the ground-- I would just have to catch the nose of it before it left the cradle.

Maybe a little hard to describe this in words that make sense.

But the TLDR is that I've designed a launching system and am designing my RV custom to support the hobie-- not on the roof -- that would be terrible because I need all that real estate for solar power! (Planning to be near self sufficient power wise- this roof has enough space for 2kw! Though I'm going to just put 1.6kw up there because the panels are a lot cheaper)

While this may seem amazing/absurd, solving these kinds of problems I do regularly, and I have a secret weapon: 80/20. 80/20 is brand name for extruded aluminum that is easy to work with and attach to. 8020.net is the company but there are knockoffs. Anyway, as a result of this, its easy to custom build an RV interior in a Morgan box truck-- build an 8020 box inside the truck, run bracers across, and then build cabinets and furniture and the like attached to the 8020 frame. One really nice thing about this method is that unlike with wood, you can just reconfigure things if you like doing it a different way.

But I digress. My point is that I am less worried about loading and unloading the kayak from the vehicle than I would be otherwise (and by the way, I started off looking at regular RVs and never liked them so half the reason for DIY is the hobie, but it's really the excuse, I just hate the way RVs allocate space and the amount they cost.)

I'm much more worried about whether I can manage a TI by my self, holding it from the bow with its stern sitting on a nice pair of wheels.... and roll it into the water at a lake at state parks and the like. Or even down a boat ramp-- those are pretty steep!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:07 pm 
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quattroguy wrote:
If you have any sailor left in your blood, you will end up in the TI.


This is the comment that got me- I looked at hobies sail kits for other kayaks and they are... well, not capable enough. I looked at WETA and TRIAK and Warren Little Boat and WindRider and everything else I could find... most of them are not in production anymore and the ones that are are too much like "real" sailboats with significant rigging--- not that there's a problem with that when sailing, but its' the transition between sailing and non-sailing that is the problem.

I have ZERO interest in anything without a "real" sail. Islands have real sails, but the sail kit for the kayaks doesn't do it for me.

I know my launch time for my old boat was about 30 minutes, but it was not a hassle, I just started the engine, warmed it up, etc. the hassle was it was 30 foot and 12,000 pounds and just too much for me to single hand, especially having to go between the boat and the dock -- it was a center cockpit and had a high wall.

If I can manage to roll a TI about 100 yards and down a boat ramp (and then later up, and back 100 years) it should work. It's just hard to tell from online research.

I'm not in great shape (part of the reason for getting the boat is to get me more active- this is an exercise form I love) but I'm in good health.

I would go and rent one or both, but I cannot, my local hobie dealer says "we sell a lot of them but they are too big to keep in the store" SMH.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:35 pm 
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paranoid wrote:
Have a look at my posts.


OMG, the sight of the TI on your subaru gave me a massive grin. LOVE IT. Of course I've always had a thing for Subarus so that might be part of it, but I love that solution. AND then I saw the wheels!

I had been planning on wheels, ever since seeing Steve Roberts add them to his "microship" in the 1990s. But hadn't worked out the design, yours seems a lot better than I was thinking.

Saving all your pictures-- thanks! Do love your design. I can replicate it in my way using extruded aluminum... and probably UHMW instead of fiberglass. I might do a different front design, cause I'm sure I will want to run a spinnaker.

One question-- would it be any less effective if the wheels didn't hold the kayak as far off the ground? Like the back wheels look like they could be a foot shorter-- but the rudder wouldn't clear then, but you would just have to pop it up.

With a setup like this, and the cradle I'm planning, I think launch and stow should be pretty quick-- just about dropping the mast and undoing the trampolines... and vehicle to ground process easy for me-- winches and ramps-- and ground to water process easy with your wheel design. Slotting the mast in and running the mast lines, plus, trampolines is about exactly the level of effort that's ideal for me.

The winches and wheels may be a bit... "lazy"... for being only 50 years old, but I can see that lasting for 10-15 years, or thru an injury, etc.

This is really great news. Merry Christmas to me! THANK YOU VERY MUCH paranoid!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:06 pm 
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pro10is wrote:
If I've learned anything it's this: Always consider the hassle factor when choosing your recreational equipment, it's vital to your enjoyment.


I agree completely, which is why I made the post. I'm trying to figure out the hassle factor.

All-in (fully rigged) the weight of the AI is 185, and the TI 240. Those 55 pounds are hard to quantify.... with winches to lower the boat to the ground, and wheels to wheel it to the water, is that 55 pounds (and 2 feet of additional length) going to significantly increase the hassle factor? Sitting here without having seen one in real life yet, it feels like it won't, but I'm not sure.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:38 pm 
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Been looking at the rotomolded Hobie cats. I think trimarans May be more my style, I don’t like the boat heeled over like that, but their hills are a lot shorter and thus would be easier to fit in a box truck. The masts are longer though and I’ve heard from a friend who has some older Hobie cats in his club that they take awhile to rig.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:58 pm 
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jay2018 wrote:
Been looking at the rotomolded Hobie cats.


Well, hassle factor is too much for the cats. The bravo would work but the mast would have to go on the roof (or break down between every use) and I’m concerned that even with a front of the vehicle support the wind forces would damage it— and more importantly the bars supporting the mast on the boat makes it too tall to hoist into the roof of the box.

Maybe a TI main hull could go on the roof— but that would take the vehicle height from 10’2” to 11’7”.


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