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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:53 am 
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I recently brought a new Adventure Island complete with spinnaker kit and there's one major problem I have with furling the sail. I'm finding the top of the sail continually tangles with the spinnaker backstay and halyard when furling the sail particularly when the spinnaker is in the snuff bag. The only successfully way I can manage it is to furl the sail very very slowly. I've noticed other comments about this and I would be really grateful if someone out there could help me out either with some practical sailing tips or a modification of some sort.
Pete


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Location: Houston, TX
Common issue now fixed with a new part you can order. See the following thred..

https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 5&start=15

Once purchased, it should solve the problem without the need for further modification. I have yet to get mine so I can not comment on how effective it is.

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2016 AI - Spinn & Jib

“Out of sight of land the sailor feels safe. It is the beach that worries him.”
– Charles G. Davis

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
The rotating mast topper is the key component to expanding your TI to it's full potential. Once you have a mast topper it's really easy to add all kinds of sails, (jibs, spinnakers, wings, and multiple sails).
We bought our first TI in april 2010 on a Thursday and got washed out to sea that same afternoon and couldn't get back in. The culprit was the lack of performance of the boat, and the inability to point and sail upwind, from offshore. Pointing 50 degrees off the wind was un-acceptable. Sure the boat sails, but your vmg ends up being negative.
The spinnaker kit doesn't fix that severe problem, a jib is needed for upwind performance.
Fortunately once you get a nice mast topper that works and is reliable, it's pretty darn easy to also add a nice jib for upwind performance. We found out by very hard knocks that if you improve the downwind performance you must also increase the upwind performance if you want a well balanced boat.

I got lucky when I designed and built my mast topper on the second day I owned the boat. Been using the same exact mast topper for 8 yrs with never any issues.

It never dawned on me until recently why my mast topper worked fine and hobies didn't, (similar designs).
The key difference is my mast topper is seven inches taller than Hobies, (above everything).
Sorry I didn't realize this until recently, I'm pretty confident Hobies recent fix will fix most issues.
FE


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:43 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Just sharing here,,,
Another thing we did for a while is the pulleys for the sail control lines and the spinnaker stay line all tie to the stainless clip about 15 inches from the stern of the boat, all that stuff makes that area very busy. Also when sitting in the back seat that sail control line ends up right at neck level, (the main reason I hate sitting in the back).
For a while we added a pvc H bar to our motor mount to raise the sail control line, but discovered when raising that control line very high, it kind of messed up sail performance, (pulls from wrong angle).
What I did was to run a couple loops of spectra rudder string around the rudder gudgeon, then attached the sail control pulleys and the spinnaker stay line about 15 inches further back on the boat.
Didn't seem to effect sailing performance, but did give me a little more room under the sail control line when sitting in the back. It also raised the spinnaker rear stay line so it's less likely to get tangled in the sail.

Obviously nobody will try it , (nobody ever does), I'm just sharing because it worked well for us. The only downside is if you have outboards, it's now possible to get the sail control lines tangled into the outboards if you don't also add a goal post to the motor mount, (shaped in an 'H'), to kind of guide and keep the sail control line centered, so it can't tangle into the motors.
On our goal post we mounted our removable night time white running light on one side. When we were operating our boat at night sometimes, because when running the outboards, ( in get out of dodge emergency mode),the boat could easily cruise at up to 15mph we pretty much had to have full night time running lights, (red, green, white). We had two complete sets of removable LED running lights, mainly because they are seldom used, and when stored inside the hull in salt water environments, they tend to be extremely un-reliable, (internal corrosion). We mostly operate in salt water, and everything pretty much corrodes quickly.
I also highly recommend having at least a couple really good flashlights when operating at night, you cannot see channel markers at all, (we find them using the brail method, (lol, yeah we have hit several). We have also got lost and couldn't find our launch spot and car several times now, ( it all looks the same at night). We now always mark a gps way point when pulling out, and also turn around and look for landmarks as we are pulling away. We often launch inland, go thru bunches of canals to get out to sea, then come back in say 8-10 hrs later, (sometimes after dark), and literally can't find the right inlet, (yep this really happens), even once in a while in our home waters, embarrasing,,,lol.
FE


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:19 pm
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fusioneng wrote:
Fortunately once you get a nice mast topper that works and is reliable, it's pretty darn easy to also add a nice jib for upwind performance. We found out by very hard knocks that if you improve the downwind performance you must also increase the upwind performance if you want a well balanced boat.

I got lucky when I designed and built my mast topper on the second day I owned the boat. Been using the same exact mast topper for 8 yrs with never any issues.

It never dawned on me until recently why my mast topper worked fine and hobies didn't, (similar designs).
The key difference is my mast topper is seven inches taller than Hobies, (above everything).
Sorry I didn't realize this until recently, I'm pretty confident Hobies recent fix will fix most issues.
FE


FE, do you have any pictures of your mast topper and the way you rig both extra sails on your hobby?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:56 am
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zorzal wrote:
fusioneng wrote:
Fortunately once you get a nice mast topper that works and is reliable, it's pretty darn easy to also add a nice jib for upwind performance. We found out by very hard knocks that if you improve the downwind performance you must also increase the upwind performance if you want a well balanced boat.

I got lucky when I designed and built my mast topper on the second day I owned the boat. Been using the same exact mast topper for 8 yrs with never any issues.

It never dawned on me until recently why my mast topper worked fine and hobies didn't, (similar designs).
The key difference is my mast topper is seven inches taller than Hobies, (above everything).
Sorry I didn't realize this until recently, I'm pretty confident Hobies recent fix will fix most issues.
FE


FE, do you have any pictures of your mast topper and the way you rig both extra sails on your hobby?


I would also like to see that.

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2018 Tandem Island -


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:29 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Here is a pic of our TI, notice how tall the mast topper is, we have never had any tangling issues in 8 yrs of heavy use.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aqL6rlXgtsFMBoPj2
Image
We have two halyards on the boat, one for the jib, (which we run 99% of the time, (wing jib shown in pic), The other halyard is for our big spinnaker, we we didn't bring along that day.

FE


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:31 am 
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FE, I hope I am not too pushy... It would be GREAT if you find the time to take a good picture of your mast topper ... Performance of the TI (and even worse on the AI) is bad when even remotely close to the wind, effectively around 60 degrees (i think even chinese junk boats with their square sails do better than that :) )

I personally am biting at the bit to get a good jibe and a spinnaker, but I don’t want to deal with snags...

And Oh-by-the-way... love to see the picture of you with the kids, all enjoying a day out. :D


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:50 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
No problem, unfortunately I had to sell the boat last fall, (doctors orders, (I'm handicapped from a severe back injury)) and all the mods went into the dumpster, so I don't have anything anymore.
However is did post everything on the ultimate Tandem island thread a long time ago.
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic. ... &start=165
If you look on page 12 of the thread pretty much all the details are there. Keep in mind the whole works was designed and built back in April 2010, (took about 1-2 hours to build and cost about $20 bucks), I was kind of frustrated after being washed out to sea the first two times I took the boat out so I built the whole works on a Saturday. Basically picked up the boat on Thursday, got washed out to sea, so that night I ordered an outboard, then went out again Friday got washed out to sea again. Basically we went out the passes into open ocean then couldn't get back to shore.
I was so frustrated I drove up to St Pete and picked up the outboard first thing Saturday morning, then went home and built everything in the garage Saturday.
I designed everything while walking down the isles at Home depot and built everything with a hack saw and drill in the garage on Saturday.
Who the heck knew it was going to last forever, and work without any issues. Pretty much everything is the same exact stuff, like the brass drain tube, is the exact same tube, (8 yrs old when I tossed it). I still had the original mast topper hangin in the garage, but a couple yrs later I made a new one, (using the same basic design, from a fiberglass pultrusion, the new mast topper only weighed about 2 lbs, and was about ten times stronger than the original, to test it out I made a rope swing tied to each end, and sat on it, the fiberglass pultrusion easily supports 250 lbs. Both the mast topper and the 2 ft bowsprit are fiberglass pultrusions, ( I can stand on the bowsprit). The fiberglass pultrusions were like $13 bucks at Home Depot, just shave off the polypropylene skin. (highlighted on page 12).
Yea I probably should have used delrin ball bearings at the top, (like Hobie did). But just putting a sleeve filled with grease ( a sleeve bearing) worked just fine, so I never bothered changing the design to roller bearings.
The whole key to the design is the distance between the point bearing at the bottom, and the spinning bearing at the top, (about 6-7 inches). I followed the exact same design Hobie used at the base of the mast, (which withstands lateral stress really well).
Point bearings are similar to watch bearings in watches, (jewel movement), it's basically a very small diameter spinning (just like point bearing at the base of the mast), all really simple stuff.

Actually if you look at page 30 of the ultimate tandem island thread, I tried like crazy to help CaptnChaos get his Hobie mast topper going.
My opinion is a good mast topper design is the key to everything on these boats, once you have a working one, you can add sails to your hearts content, (we have tried out dozens of different design and concepts).

Here is a video taken the same day as the pic above with 6 people on board. that's pretty much what we did most weekends is hang around sand bars with our powerboat friends, (and also stop at pretty much every bar/restaurant we pass, (lol)). Our fav place was Egmont Key, (which is 50 miles by water round trip). I could make it there faster by water than driving up there with the truck and trailer, (like a 90 minute drive, and 1/2 tank of gas, ($30 bucks gas plus about $5 bucks in tolls, plus $6 bucks parking, then sail 9 miles from the launch on Ft Desoto to Egmont key). Sailing there and back from Sarasota only costs $2 bucks in fuel, and takes less time. We like to scuba dive on the old sunken fort, and meet our powerboat friends, (who also launch from Sarasota), we sometimes stop at Paradise key, (just north of Anna Maria island, (everybody there is naked, not us...lol). We have gone up as far as Treasure Island to have dinner, (fun place). There are seaside bars and restaurants every mile or so, all the way up and back, (we try to stop at most).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk2-5Upi_Dk


I don't know a lot about the Hobie mast topper, or spinnaker kit, (I don't have either), so I can't really help much, plus I no longer have a boat either, so I'm not going to be much help to anyone here.

Actually my back is now much better, if I can afford it I might pick up another TI, (would be our 4th), it's no big deal to remake all the mods, (a few days work and a couple hundred in materials), most of the old stuff was was 8 yrs old and lookin pretty ratty anyway. However now being handicapped and fully retired, I doubt I will ever get the money together, (these boats are kinda expensive). But it was a fun run. I'm getting better at basket weaving.....

FE

EDIT:
This area is huge, and I did boring stuff like this video, all the time, pretty much every weekend, 80% of the time this is the wind I'm out in, (like 2-3mph). It's not for everyone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jFCfBMZKKU


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:12 pm 
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Sorry, FE, had not seen the thread, you are right, it has all the info plus the concepts behind it. Hope your back keeps getting better!


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:53 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
The only additional component not shown in the mast topper pics is the sleeve bearing, (similar to the crankshaft bearings on a car engine, (the way they work is a film of pressurized oil, instead of oil we are using just regular grease, ( a super simple concept..).
Yea I could have made delrin ball bearings, (like on Hobies mast topper) but at the time I had no idea if the thing was going to work at all, (I designed it all while pushing my cart thru Home depot on the fly, ( the orange sign in the pic of the brass tube is the Home Depot shopping cart, (lol).
The pin bearing is just a 3/8” dia stainless bolt ground to a point, glued on center in the upright, (the whole T and upright is several used drill bits dropped inside the T then filled with west epoxy, (make sure you get the 3/8” bolt on center). I just made it too long, then trimmed the length later.
The sleeve bearing is nothing more than a crest tooth paste tube with the end where the tooth paste squirts out drilled out to 3/8 dia, cut the bottom of the tube to the right length with scissors, then fill with grease and slide over the vertical part of the T. To hold the tube in place I just wrapped a few loops of electrical tape over the 3/8” shaft to hold the tube in place, (I could have used a hose clamp, but home depot was closed at the time).
The pin bearing spins inside a 3/8” thick polyethylene ( walmart cutting board) washer with a 3/8” dia hole drilled threw the center, ( the round washer fits loosly inside the brass tube). I dropped two if those washers into the tube, the washers sit against the 5/16” dia cross bolt inside the tube with a dab of silicone to keep them from falling out. The 3/8” dia pin bearing, (ground to a dull point) rubs against the side of the 5/16” dia cross bolt. The pointed end is the thrust component of the mast topper, (no different than Hobies setup at the base of the mast).
Sure I could have designed everything fancy and used real ball bearings, but why,,, I only planned to use it a couple times to test out the concept, (who the heck would ever know if the thing was even going to work, (nobody had done anything like this before, why spend alot of time and money on something you don’t expect to work at all). This was all on saturday, and I really wanted to go out on Sunday, And I still had to make the motor mount, (made from 1 1/2” pvc dropped in the rod holders, filled with epoxy). And still had to make all the rigging for the sails. For the jib I just used an extra Hobie kayak sail on a pvc roto- furler we had laying around the garage, (we had 3 or 4 extras just layin around the garage). For the spinnaker I used the 40sqft spinnaker I had on our old Oasis, ( they both pretty much sucked, but they worked, who knew). Later on I made a 135sq ft spinnaker, and made the jib bigger, (around 40 sq ft, which ended up being too big, I folded a hull) so I cut the jib down to 30sqft and added a bow sprit and re-enforced the front end of the boat, that was a big oops).
Also with the big sails I kept breaking the 1/4-20 stud at the base of the hull, I broke a bunch of them. Then one day in the front yard I opened the sail all the way, then gave the sail control line a swift tug, the 1/4-20 stud snapped as if it wasn’t there at all, (oops theirs the problem). That’s when I added a small plate behind the mast holder and epoxied it in, ( all easily removed), I put those plates in all the TI’s after that. A few yrs later Hobie went to a stronger ( rolled thread) 1/4-20 stud). The other issue was the bearing plate that the white delrin balls sit in. The plate was just mig welded to the front of the 1/16” thick cross brace, I ripped off several of those plates. Starting in 2012 hobie changed the bearing plate design, (with a thru weld to the back and front of the tube), that cured the problem. The rear stay line is kinda important when adding big sails, (just sayin).
Keep in mind 98% of the TI owners out there are perfectly happy with the stock boat. If your not happy with the stock performance it might be better to get a different boat, (H16’s and Getaways are really nice, the Windrider 17, or the Weta are also nice I hear).
However I feel Hobies optional spinnaker is a really really good sail, just came 7 yrs too late for us, ( hopefully they will soon get the bugs worked out on their mast topper design, ( really none of my business, since I no longer own a boat, and should probably shup up). It’s just too bad they didn’t look at the bearing design at the base of their mast, (with the point bearing), I don’t think the length of the cross member of their current design can be extended much, (wrong bearing type design)
It’s just we really loved our TI’s, and I wouldn’t want to own anything else, (checked all our boxes off with our mods as the perfect boat to fit our lifestyle). We will miss ours, good luck everyone.
Been kind of frustrating to me, took me 15 minutes to design the mast topper while walkin down the Home Depot Isle, and a couple hrs to build, then 8 yrs of explaining over and over again how it works, ( just frustrating that’s all). I kinda regret posting anything now.
FE

Here is a pic of the tooth paste tube:
Image

No need to follow my design in any way, anyone can design a mast topper anyway they like. However understanding how to design something that actually works is another story. Below is the basic concept of how my mast topper worked.
Image

As far as how the sails hook up you would need to scour thru the old ultimate island thread and look at videos and pics, (none of it exists anymore, so I can't provide any more).
Actually page 4 on the ultimate Tandem Island thread shows all the rigging and furlers on all the sails, I installed harkin cleats across the front AKA cross bar to handle all the lines and furlers, (like 5 cleats, all our TI's had all those cleat positions pre-tapped for adding cleats, ( I bought the cleats at West Marine), and used them for pretty much everything. Note: to be able to cleat overhead lines, (like halyard lines), you simply wrap the line around the AKA cross bar before inserting into the cleat.
There is a closeup of the top of the mast, (the old original mast topper), I just used round rings held onto to the mast topper with hose clamps. Note these early versions from (2010-2011) didn't have the dual halyards, (those came later).
Here is a link to the Ultimate Tandem Island thread for your viewing enjoyment, (lol).
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 0&start=45


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