Return to Hobie.com

Hobie Forums

It is currently Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:34 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:36 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:35 am
Posts: 5
I am seriously considering buying a TI for use from home. The problem is that the "beach' behind my house in Key West is covered by mangroves. My only water access is via a 5' wide 40' long floating dock (with vertical support poles 11' apart). The water is only 3' deep, but has a very soft mucky bottom. So my question is: Could the TI be rigged up while sitting cross-ways on the dock, presumably with the amas folded in, and then slid into the water when ready to go. I'd have bow and stern lines ready to bring the TI alongside the dock after sliding it into the water. Then I'd hop over the dock-side amas and into the seat, ready to push off. I assume the amas can be extended and folded in while on the water? Maybe I should extend the far side amas out while still on the dock (for more stability when in the water)?

To dock it, I'd come alongside the dock with the dock-side amas folded in. While beside the dock but still on the water, I'd remove the mirage pedals, and lift the centerboard and rudder. Then hop out and push the stern away from the dock until the TI is at 90 degrees to the dock, then drag it onto the dock. Then once cross-ways on the dock, I'd remove the mast and any other components. The top of dock is 12" above the water level. With the dock only 5' wide, I'd have to grab the main hull relatively quickly to drag it across the dock.

I do have limited room onshore to store the components, so on dock storage of at least the main hull might be preferable.

I have never physically seen the TI (just seen it on you-tube). So the above is my best guess. Hearing of any experience launching a TI from a dock or returning it to dock would be appreaciated.

Thanks
Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:45 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:14 am
Posts: 27
The method you described should work just fine.

Use some sort of caddy or wheels to get it out to the dock's end, then slide it into the water with one of both amas folded and the mast and seats already installed. No sweat to unfold once launched

You are on the right track and after you've done it once, figuring out how to make it yet easier, will be, well, easier.

Let us know how it went.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:37 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:35 am
Posts: 5
Thanks for the reply tomthouse. Maybe it is easier than I thought. With a caddy, I could complete all rigging on shore where I had full access around the TI (as opposed to rigging up with TI balanced cross-ways on the dock). The challenge is to find or make a caddy with wheels within the 5' width of the dock. The Hobie caddies (less than 5' wide) don't seem rated for the TI's weight.

It seems that the TI is very stable, even with the amas folded in? Stable enough that I could pull the entire TI onto the dock from the end of the dock (vs pulling it up cross-ways to the dock with the amas out). Is the hull flat enough that the TI won't tip while pulling it onto the dock? A plus .. by pulling it up from the end of the dock, I'd have more room to step back and pull on a bow line.

Thanks for confirming that the amas are easily folded in and out while on the water.

Next step is to rent a TI (a 2.5 hour drive from here) to see if the wife likes it, and if our 17# dog likes the trampoline.

Thanks again
Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:19 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2774
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Hi Dave,
Yes, the TI is very stable with AMA folded and yes it would not tip while pulling it onto the dock ...but are you able to haul the entire boat with its 240lb+ mass back up and onto the dock?
You might neede a roller system and winch assist? Would a Davit be out of the question?
Re the cart, any of the Hobie dolly carts are rated for the TI. Or you can make one yourself from their cradles: https://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/view ... 73&t=40346

The C-Tug would work as well and can be modified easily to suit different purposes: https://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/view ... 1&start=90
Doing up the tramps while on the water could be tricky if you can’t stand in the water but it can be done. It would be better to assemble/rig on shore but would dock post/railings prevent this?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:49 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2818
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Further to the excellent advice given above, I have been thinking on fleshing out stringy's comments.

If you were to add a wide roller across the middle of the dock end, along with rubber edging, you would have a ,TI-friendly first contact point.

If that pontoon has a rubber mat (or even linoleum or similar, although it's relative slipperyness could be a mixed blessing), you protect the hulls from excessive repeated scraping from multiple trips.

To help cope with the heft, I could envisage adding a pulley in the middle of the pontoon back to (say) the next joint between pontoons. Distance is not critical, as long as it at least about 12-15 feet, so you can get the TI past the balance point. You could then assemble a block and tackle arrangement, with enough purchases as you need to make hauling your TI up onto the pontoon easy

Lifting the TI onto a trolley completes the job.

Good luck!

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:19 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:35 am
Posts: 5
stringy wrote:
Hi Dave,
Yes, the TI is very stable with AMA folded and yes it would not tip while pulling it onto the dock ...but are you able to haul the entire boat with its 240lb+ mass back up and onto the dock?
You might neede a roller system and winch assist? Would a Davit be out of the question?
Re the cart, any of the Hobie dolly carts are rated for the TI. Or you can make one yourself from their cradles: https://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/view ... 73&t=40346

The C-Tug would work as well and can be modified easily to suit different purposes: https://www.hobie.com/au/en/forums/view ... 1&start=90
Doing up the tramps while on the water could be tricky if you can’t stand in the water but it can be done. It would be better to assemble/rig on shore but would dock post/railings prevent this?


Good point stringy about lifting that weight. The dock sections are poly-something (plastic) made by http://www.ez-dock.com. I might be able to bolt a roller to it and/or a pulley/winch, but these modules are not really suited to bolting things to . They do make modules with rollers for jet skis to glide up onto that might help.

There are 4' high posts along each side of the dock so a davit system to lift the TI while it was along side (parallel to) the dock would not work (if I could even attach davits). I think I have to pull it onto the dock, bow first, either from the end of the dock or cross-ways in the middle of the dock.

In your links, the full TI '5 dip' cradle with balloon tires would exceed my 5' dock width. But the video with balloon tires and '3 dip' scupper cradle would work, and might be easy to insert while the TI was near its balance point off the end of the dock. Hmm, hard to use scupper wheels if TI is cross-ways to the dock.

I have a picture of my dock, but not a website to host the pic.

I could assemble the trampolines while the TI was cross-ways to the dock, but I can't extend the amas if I push off the end of the dock (because of the vertical posts on each side of the dock)

I will look further at those cradle links
Thanks
Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:51 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:35 am
Posts: 5
tonystott wrote:
Further to the excellent advice given above, I have been thinking on fleshing out stringy's comments.

If you were to add a wide roller across the middle of the dock end, along with rubber edging, you would have a ,TI-friendly first contact point.

If that pontoon has a rubber mat (or even linoleum or similar, although it's relative slipperyness could be a mixed blessing), you protect the hulls from excessive repeated scraping from multiple trips.

To help cope with the heft, I could envisage adding a pulley in the middle of the pontoon back to (say) the next joint between pontoons. Distance is not critical, as long as it at least about 12-15 feet, so you can get the TI past the balance point. You could then assemble a block and tackle arrangement, with enough purchases as you need to make hauling your TI up onto the pontoon easy

Lifting the TI onto a trolley completes the job.

Good luck!


Hi Tony, I think you may be right about needing a roller. I will ask EZ-dock if they make one. The TI rental place (booked for next Tuesday) say there is a dock I could attempt to pull the TI on to. That will tell me how much of the weight is taken by the water and dock, and whether a pulley is needed.

The dock is 'plastic' so not too abrasive. And very little dragging if I can insert the scupper wheels at the balance point. I suppose I could simply loop some rope between a pair of dock support posts (as you say, 12-15' back from the end of the dock) for one end of a pulley then find appropriate pull points on the TI.

Lots of good ideas
Thanks
Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:14 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2981
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
We travel a lot with our TI's and have had to launch and retrieve from several docks, (not fun). We have also thrown the boat over several sea walls to get to the water. We have slid the boat down 100 ft grass slopes, (near a big dam somewhere in the Upper peninsula (MI), big mistake lol.
One dock was at Blue Water resort at mm13 near key west. We were there a couple weeks and the campsite had a dock about 4 ft above the water on a really long canal that led to the ocean. We rolled the hull itself out to the dock, removed the scupper cart then slid the kayak into the water, (more like tossed). We then carried the AMA's separately and attached everything in the water, AMA's, tramps, twin outboards, and the 3masts for the massive sailset we have for the boat. It took about an hour, but we were there for two weeks, and just left the fully rigged boat in the water tied to the dock for the duration. We are mostly divers and snorklers and mostly go out in open water, (ocean). We went out a couple times a day typically, it was a good mile out the canals out to open water, (not hard with motors).
When it came time to go home we removed everything from the boat, leaving just the hull (100 lbs) tied a rope to the bow and lifted the bow up onto the dock, and dragged the hull the rest of the way. Once up I tipped the boat on it's side inserted the hd cart, then walked the hull over to the car, where we put it on the roof for the trip home, (takes about an hour). We typically stay at most places a week or two so we typically only take the boat down when we arrive, then put it back up when we leave for the next resort. That's only when traveling with our camper, (the camper uses the trailer hitch, so we have to cartop). When local we keep the fully rigged boat on our trailer and tow to launches, just like any other boat, we store the boat on the trailer in our garage typically when home, way quicker and easier from the trailer IMO.
I always do all loading unloading by myself and only ever try to lift only the empty hull, and only ever try to lift half at a time (about 50 lbs). I don't even attempt to move the fully rigged boat around, way too heavy for me.
For many years prior we ran canoes, and an Oasis, the TI is no more difficult to car top than either. Actually I feel the TI hull is easier to load than our old Oasis was, because it's slightly longer, making it easier to lift half, and had many more handholds.
If I owned a dock, and wanted to haul my TI regularly I would mount a cheap boat winch to a dock post, so I could winch the front of the hull up onto the dock, then drag the hull onto the dock. I would assemble everything down on the water. We have kept our boats beached, or tied to docks, or moored on mooring balls just offshore for up to a couple weeks at a time with no ill effects. Not sure I would leave in the water much longer than that though.
But we used the heck out of our adventure boats (TI's) most weekends all year round and wore out 3 of them. Doing every fantastic adventure you can possibly imagine, we truly had a blast.
FE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:09 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:35 am
Posts: 5
Hello FE, thanks for the reply.

I can't begin to imagine 3 masts on a TI (or do you mean three different length masts used one at a time)?

Yes, a dock 4' above the water would be a drop. Luckily, my dock is only 12" above water.

Its sounds like extending and retracting the amas can be done while on the water. Is it hard to install the tramps while on water?

When you were tied to the dock, were amas in or out?

I saw a video where a TI was rolled sideways on a dock, with all the weight on the (retracted) ama, so the scupper cart could be inserted. The amas are designed to handle that?

I am leaning towards your idea, to pull the TI, bow first, onto the end of the dock with a pulley or winch, with a roller on the dock end if I can find one. I'm thinking everything (mast/sail, seats and retracted amas) left on board for the pull onto the dock. At the balance point, I'd insert the scupper cart, then wheel everything ashore to disassemble. But maybe everything on board will be too heavy - time will tell.

Hmm, are there beavers in the Keys? Then I could blame them if a 5' strip of mangroves suddenly disappeared to give me shore access.

Thanks for the tips.
Dave Z


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:51 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2981
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Keep in mind this is our only family boat, replaced our searay 24 ft, and we mostly dive and snorkel offshore in the keys an swfl mostly, (our fav thing to do). And underwater visability goes down to zero in wind and waves.
We mostly only go out in very flat water and very light wind. I'm sure you have tried to use your sail in 3-5mph winds, it basically does nothin, and peddling gets you 2mph, if ya got 30 miles to go, that makes for a long day.
So we added spinnaker and jibs to the boat along with twin outboards a long time ago. All the sails are rotofurling so we can put up some or all as needed depending on the conditions at the moment. I'm not suggesting anyone do all that, our requirements are very specific.

Yes you can put the tramps on in the water, you clip them from the inside outward.
I'm not suggesting anyone do what we do, I just described what works well for us.
And yes you can assemble the boat on the dock if you like, then just toss it off, we do that too.
We tie a line to the bow so the boat doesn't get away.
Watch out for the barnacles on the doc posts, they scratch the crap out of your boat.
Our big automatic anchor system, ( for diving offshore) is in the stern of the boat. We sometimes toss that out to the side of the dock, then tie the bow to the dock, so the boat never touches the dock. We just leave the ama's out and the tramps on for up to a couple weeks at a time,(we pull the boat up to the dock and walk on our tramps to get on board).
However no way no how could I ever get the fully rigged boat out of the water, (too dang heavy). We remove everything and throw it all on the dock, then lift only the bare hull out.
Obviously all our boats look like they gave been thru WW2, because we use the heck out of them. The hulls are nearly indestructible.
Just tryin to give you ideas
FE


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
© Hobie Cat Company. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group