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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 12:02 pm 
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hjdca wrote:
I just installed the topper upgrade, cheek block, & furler update on my 2015 Tandem Island. All were free, and all went smooth. Some tips:

1. Like previously said, be very careful with the resin bearing balls in the topper. Those are easy to loose.
2. The cheek block is harder to place on the tandem island because of the support pole for the Aka and the other stuff that is on the back side of the Aka. You also need to check your tramp straps and make sure you put it in a spot that does not interfere with them. I ended up putting the cheek black a few inches to the right of the support rod at a slight upward angle, so, I could still fold the support rod for storage and snap it into the holder on the Aka.

Trying the upgrades today. Loading everything up now. Will report back later on the results. 8-12 mph winds today.



I tried this upgrades yesterday, Memorial day at Marina Del Rey. We went out to Venice pier and offshore a bit. We saw a huge shark next to us not far from Venice pier and my girlfriend freaked out. That was fun ! The winds were about 10 mph, so, it was perfect for the Spinnaker coming in from the breakwater. Unfortunately, the new Topper does not totally solve the problem, but, there are some advantages. The rear halyard line still interferes with the long batten in the sail by about 3 inches or so, but, with the right maneuvering, you can get the sail under the batten, but, if speed is a concern, forgetaboutit, you still need the main sail partially furled to maneuver quickly. I also think with the new height, you might be able to furl your main less than usual -- TBC. In addition, with the cheek block, you can tighten up the halyard, so, that it resists tangling during furling. Honestly, I had a lot of problems with the Spinnaker yesterday.... I tangled up the sail while attaching the sail to the lines and I had to straighten it out on the water.... The sail frustrates me a lot and is a real pain, but, when it hooks up riding high , it really moves the boat. sigh...


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 2:54 pm 
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tonystott wrote:
I am a bit surprised by the almost deathly silence from users of the spinnaker over in USA... aren't anyone over there (apart from vetgam) experiencing issues?

Me too, though maybe like me they are prepared to put up with the problems which are outweighed by the spinnaker benefits?
I only revisited this because it irked me that Hobie went to the trouble of providing a fix, (and I went to the trouble of fitting it)...that fixes nothing! :?


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:32 pm 
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Location: new smyrna beach
Yes in 14 months I've tried twice to use the Spinnaker and each was a fail. That's why I asked earlier about the upgrades. I gave up even putting the topper on in hopes of any further attempts
Have considered just selling the kit and taking the loss.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 7:35 pm 
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I could never sell mine FG.
To me, the spinnaker advantages far outweigh the tangling problems, which can be avoided with careful furling and not having all the main out. I’ve had some great runs with the spinnaker which improves greatly the weak downwind sailing you get with a boomless main.
My complaint relates to Hobie responding that the problems are now fixed with the taller topper.
They aren’t!


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 10:14 pm 
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stringy wrote:
I could never sell mine FG.
To me, the spinnaker advantages far outweigh the tangling problems, which can be avoided with careful furling and not having all the main out. I’ve had some great runs with the spinnaker which improves greatly the weak downwind sailing you get with a boomless main.
My complaint relates to Hobie responding that the problems are now fixed with the taller topper.
They aren’t!


I will not get rid of mine either -- even though I screw it up a lot... It does make the boat faster and more versatile. I still have a problem with the first long Batten hitting the rear halyard line.... but, also, Right now, I cannot sort even out the interference when hoisting the Spinnaker with the splash guards and the first eyelet on the hull that guides the Spinnaker line. I just leave the right splash guard tied up for now. In the end, I will work it all out. I am glad my girlfriend is patient. :)


Last edited by hjdca on Wed May 30, 2018 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:03 pm 
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You have to maintain tension on the lines, keep the top batten short, furl the sail tighter. Not going to fix every possible iteration of mistakes, but according to Jim... he is very happy with this higher cap.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:50 am 
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Location: new smyrna beach
I'm not complaining, I'm more frustrated and disappointed. I mean here I am a consumer coming from an extremely limited single sail background making my first leap into multi sail with the TI and my experience has been dismal. This isn't to bash n trash talk Hobie , I love the TI and speak highly of it to any that inquire every time I'm on the water or curious passerbys when I'm washing/loading it in the driveway.
But following Hobies' Spinnaker install instructions and doing a driveway sailing afterwards left me perplexed as to what the heck I did incorrectly upon seeing the angle the halyard was and tangling with the main. Even after making a 36" tall "riser" for the rear main when seated in aft seating and resting the halyard on it too. Referencing the instructions numerous times to see" what I missed" in both the TI manual & Spinnaker manuals I seen no errors that caused the tangling.
And there's no way to keep tension on the halyard when Spinnaker snuffed, the only way is to slightly put tension on the riser line, which only lasts a few minutes before it goes slack again. So how does one exactly go about keeping tension on the halyard?? Only way I can think of is install some kind of tie off. But that still doesn't eliminate the tangling really. My next question is what do you mean Matt by "keep the top batten "short"???
I just wish the manual would have stated " TIP: 1) keep the top batten short (with explanation of what short means as well as how to accomplish the action), 2) and somehow user must find a way to maintain tension on the halyard".

Edit I say halyard I mean the rear stay line for the Spinnaker.


Last edited by Florida grown on Thu May 31, 2018 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 3:17 am 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
FG,
Hobie’s latest running change is the addition of a cleat for the snuffing line out of the sock. With both up/down lines cleated the halyard should remain tensioned.
“Trimming the battens” means cutting the excess off the sail battens that extend out of the batten pockets on the main.
It’s important that the battens, especially the main batten closest to the mast, are not sitting proud of the main, so that they don’t catch the halyard. Due to the design, with batten caps and cord for tensioning it’s difficult to get them flush but as standard they stick out too far and should be shortened as much as possible.
This info is on P15 of the current spin manual. It wasn’t in the original.
https://static.hobiecat.com/item_attach ... 1527760430


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 3:29 am 
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Thanks Stringy I'll check out the link.


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 3:03 pm 
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A spinnaker is not an easy sail to fly... so not surprised people would have issues. They take some knowledge and skills to handle properly. This is the case with every spinnaker on every boat out there.

What complicates this is the large fat head sail design of the TI. This was in the design before spinnaker kits were created for the TI. On all sailboats there are techniques you have to use to gybe the spinnaker and on most every boat with a fat head main, you have to deal with that fat head during tacks and gybes when you have a running back stay (the halyard). In our case, Jim Czarnowski has always recommended furling the main during these maneuvers to most easily get the head through that aft triangle (under the halyard).

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Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:25 pm 
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Matt,
I have no issues with flying the spinnaker itself. It’s a given that they are trickier to sail etc. but it adds such a huge improvement to downwind sailing that I wouldn’t be without it. I love the way it raises and snuffs -brilliant work on Hobie’s part with this setup, but....I guess my expectations were too high with this running change?
So it looks like we’ll just have to live with the main hitting the halyard when tacking/gybing and the spin snuffed?
These pics with the raised mast topper show how the ‘running change’ makes no difference to this problem.

Image

Image

Image

Hobie has no plans to fix this I guess as it requires major mods?

I can (and have been) living with this because the addition of the spinnaker is such a great upgrade that its a small price to pay. I haven’t got the cleat yet but I’ve been doing this for a while now to keep the halyard tensioned. It’s worked OK and may be the reason I have had very few halyard/mast tangles. A cleat would be simpler!
Image


BTW- I actually removed the topper extension as it wasn’t as good a fit on the mast. It seems because the extension is longer that the mast ‘top’ no longer sits hard against the base of the topper. This means that the downward force is entirely handled by the side of the topper extension hitting the mainsail top webbing straps. This causes the topper to tilt and was the reason the topper fell off when I adjusted the halyard on the first trip with the running change, hence my disappointment.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:36 pm 
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Yes, furling before tacking or gibing is suggested to prevent hang ups. On large yachts with this issue they run two “running” back stays. You slack one and tension the new weather side. Not an unusual problem for large mains.

Not sure what the fit issue is you had. It should seat at the same position to get the extra height.

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Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Thanks Matt.
Having to furl on every tack on a long upwind run gets tiring real quick! I just put up with the main being out of shape sitting against the halyard until I loosen the halyard a bit. I’ve rarely gotten a tangle, just a deformed top mainsail.

The upgraded topper extension does not fit my mast snugly, it has a lot more side to side fore/aft movement, unlike the original which is a tight fit.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:42 am 
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Stringy, would a small piece of velcro tighten up clearances? (I didn't notice any difference on my 2012 TI btw)

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Probably Tony, good idea.
Whilst the topper running change didn’t help me much, what it does do is allow mods for a more positive attachment of the topper to the mast. I’ll be experimenting with a few different ideas I’ve got beginning with bungee buttons on the topper extension and bungee loops (tonneau type) attached to the top sail webbing.


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