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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:46 am 
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Location: Colorado
Partly because my wife keeps wanting to go, Ive gone out a few times just using the barber hauler loop and am finding it somewhat interesting for more than just down wind.

What it does is form a three point sheet system for the boomless sail. The main sheet is to the rear but the two side sheets (to the back akas) can pull forward. So by controlling all three of the "sheets", you can somewhat position the clew of the sail sort of allowing you to simulate a boom. I am finding it more useful in lighter winds where I have the time to play with all three sheets but this definitely allows for some sail shape tuning.

Some pictures from this weekend in lighter winds and using the loop along with the back sheet for messing with sail shape

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Iteration on the side aka blocks (no drilliing required, works well)

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Interesting.. in the winter Im using the TI at a big lake (Havasu) and often go out with the 2.5 hp outboard. But all summer in Colorado, we sail on smaller lakes (this one is about 6 miles by 1.5 miles) and I have not used the outboard once and its nice to sometimes have it along but its also nice to not have the outboard back there.

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Some of what we saw this weekend and why my wife likes to go..

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:08 pm 
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All the pictures in this this thread did go away (hosted on FB) but I got around to summarizing what Ive ended up with here

http://analogengineering.com/sail/hobie ... auler.html

Im pretty much only using the barber hauler loop now.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:59 am 
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walt wrote:
All the pictures in this this thread did go away (hosted on FB) but I got around to summarizing what Ive ended up with here

http://analogengineering.com/sail/hobie ... auler.html

Im pretty much only using the barber hauler loop now.


That was an odyssey.

On my tandem, I had arrived at your second iteration with one separate barber hauler for each side on a loop with a carabiner at a fixed point on the barber line that I could clip over both sheet lines effecting an adjustable traveler. While I wasn’t satisfied with swapping sides on tacks and gybes, that configuration allowed both tension adjustment to the leech, and the sail could be furled without touching the Barber hauler because the sheet moves freely through the carabiner. Maybe you’ll want to try the carabiner approach to tidy up some excess hardware and rope while cutting down on the workload when furling/ unfurling?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:39 am 
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Quote:
That was an odyssey.


LOL.. and a very fun odyssey at that.. I enjoy messing with the boat and probably went a little too far with the boom. Got too far away from what this boat is great at, had to back off.

I also had one other iteration not shown where I had a loop on either side for the barber hauler. I did that because if you accidentally dropped the hook while changing tacks, it would fall into the water and I had to fish it out with the paddle. The loop on each side made it easy to retrieve the hook but I still had to change hooks going from side to side. The one loop going to both sides got rid of all those problems.

Carabiner that slides.. interesting. Also sort of like the end of a whisker pole used on a jib that slides on the sheet line. Probably easier to implement than what I have?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:39 pm 
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walt wrote:
Quote:
That was an odyssey.

Carabiner that slides.. interesting. Also sort of like the end of a whisker pole used on a jib that slides on the sheet line. Probably easier to implement than what I have?


The carabiner doesn't slide.

I had what you described- a loop on either side, with a small fixed loop knot on the loop to which i hooked the carabiner.

On your setup, it would translate into creating a small in-line loop knot in the portion of line between the aka blocks and clipping your carabiner to it, then clipping the carabiner over the sheet(s) so that the sheet runs free inside the carabiner when sailing downwind. You adjust the angle of atttack (traveler) with the working end of the barber hauler, and the leech tension with the lazy end. On this manner, you can either have a continuous line from cleat to cleat, or a bitter end (i think im using that term correctly) through each cleat as long as theres sufficient line to reach the opposite side aka block from each side.

This way you have as much control over sail shape without your barber hauler lines following your clew as you furl.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:02 am 
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I tried the carabiner idea by just clipping my hook to a carabiner that captured the sheet lines.

Two things that I think the hook method does a little better.

First, the carabiner would end up over a foot from the clew of the sail. The point I could control and position was the carabiner itself instead of the actual clew of the sail. Using the hook where both the barber hauler and the sheet are independently connected right at the clew allows positioning the clew at a wider range compared to the carabiner. You can see this in the attached pictures. The last picture shows the hook and you can see that the sheet can still position the clew fore and aft and the carabiner is more limited. Does this matter much.. dont know.

Second, the carabiner goes around the two lines of the sheet. Even through the carabiner position may not change much with respect to the clew, the two sheet lines (for the 2:1 leverage) do move in opposite directions inside the carabiner so both are rubbing on the carabiner as the sheet line is pulled in. Plus the carabiner forces these two lines that are moving in opposite directions together further adding friction. So using the carabiner adds a fair amount of friction to the actual sheet attached to the clew when the barber hauler is tightened. The hook adds no friction at all to the sheet line and for the same tensions, the sheet is way easier to pull.

However as noted earlier, with the carabiner, your barber hauler lines dont move with your clew as you furl as noted. FYI, I just release both barber hauler cleats to furl, and that is pretty much the only action I take.

So.. tradeoffs like anything else and I liked the hook method in that link a little better.

First two pictures (hosted on FB so they will go away after a while) are the carabiner experiment (only done in the driveway and not on the water). The third picture shows the hook that is in the link a few posts back.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:39 pm 
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Just a thought Walt... could you run the mainsheet through a double pulley, so there is no friction?

Interesting... I have a slightly different take on the issue, albeit for the Hobie spinnaker.

Sheets go back to pulleys at the aft end of the amas.
A pulley runs freely along the sheet.
The line from that pulley runs through another pulley at the mid-point of the rear aka.
That line runs inboard to a cleat next to my seat.

So running downwind I can let the spinnaker run out wide, but as the wind moves forward, tightening up the barber hauler pulls the spinnaker clew downwards and inwards towards the centre.

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:27 pm 
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Hooking directly to the clew definitely gives more precise control. How much, is the the trade off for sure, though I think there was a bit more of a loss of precision by clasping the carabiner to the hook and not directly to the line.

The friction issue may have occurred to me but in actual conditions (I mostly sailed between 15-20 mph winds) it did not appear to be a factor, but I get your point.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:48 am 
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The double block would probably work but with the single sail, I think you need an easy way to unclip the barber hauler and both the carabiner and hook are easy and fast to remove from being attached to either the sheet or the clew. The barber hauler has to come off when the sail is taken down and sometimes I also just dont use it. In gusty higher winds or when Im just relaxing, I dont have the BH connected and just run the sheet. However, there are times when its fun to play with all three sheet lines (actual sheet plus the two barber hauler line) and mess with "3D" positioning the clew and changing the sail twist and watching the sail tail tells for best flow. Its kind of fun if you like to tweak sail controls. Or about any time you are going deep down wind the BH is connected and being used. I cant say if the hook or the carabiner is better, anyone should consider both. Im sticking with hook mostly because Im already used to it.

Tony, interesting that you are using a setup like this to pull the sail (spinnaker) sheet in rather than out. I tried to google barber hauler to see if I was using the term correctly and saw references to barber in-hauler and barber out-hauler so maybe the term covers both.. dont know myself. Certainly seems pulling it in would help with any sort of upwind sailing. I did see on a sailboat forum one time that someone with a larger trimaran (might have been a F24) had a setup where they could also pull the clew out towards the outside of the ama similar to what we are doing. I think you had a J24 in the past so have a good idea about all sorts of sail controls and going fast.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:15 pm 
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Attach the double block on a short lead to the clew (furled tie line?) with a quick disconnect that you attach it to when hooking the sheet. Then when it's time to use the barber hauler, you qd the lead, and attach the carabiner (or hook, for that matter,) to the double block and you're in business. Reverse the 2 step procedure to disconnect from the BH, and because it's now attached to the clew it doesn't ride down the sheet and you don't have to hunt for it on your next downwind. It does become a permanent part of the sheet but will keep its place and get a lot of use nonetheless.


Last edited by Pescatoral Pursuit on Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:37 pm 
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Messing around with this today in light winds.. Helped mostly going downwind in this really light wind. Very simple..
http://analogengineering.com/sail/hobie ... auler.html

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