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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:22 am
Posts: 50
6'5" and 255# (okay, okay 265#) here. I sit in the back with no major issues.

I find that when I sit in the front, the nosedive becomes an issue in any chop that is over 6" to 8". The only minor issues are: (i) the line for the roller-furler is too short to make it to that back seat, so I have to add a bit of line to it and sometimes have some hassles getting it to cleat and un-cleat, and (ii) getting to the centerboard. Other than that, it's the back seat for me.

PS, the mainsheet did knock my hat off once...


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:01 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2991
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Agreed sitting in the front, ( if you don’t have a bowsprit), the boat tends to dive on a downwind, ( especially in stronger winds, and with a barbor hauler).
I suspect this is why most sit in the back.
We raised our entire mainsail up about 4 inches, ( extended mast).
And for a while we moved our sail control line a couple feet further back on the boat, (that helped a little). We just wrapped a couple loops of spectra string, (the Hobie rudder line) around the gudgeon at the back of the boat. Then attached the sail control pulley back there instead, (just above the rudder pin). It only helped a little bit, ( probably not worth the effort).
Personally I can’t stand sitting in the back seat, I really hate that sail control line on my neck all the time.
To each their own.... I like that you can sail from either seat, anytime you like.
FE


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2778
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
fusioneng wrote:
To each their own.... I like that you can sail from either seat, anytime you like.
FE

Agreed Bob. The TI is the most versatile of kayaks.
When I went from an AI with tramps to a TI with tramps the other great benefit was being able to paddle from the backseat when necessary.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:01 am
Posts: 68
Location: Northern California
When singlehanding I usually sit in the forward cockpit. I am usually in moderate wind conditions, it is not uncommon to see gusts over 20kts on a regular basis. I like it fwd because I can easily furl or unfurl and also go back and forth from the tramps during tacks and gybes. When downwind for boat trim I lay out at the back of the tramp over the aka, or will sometimes go back to the aft cockpit, especially when close to ddw, an in between of option I do is sitting on the fwd cockpit seatback flopped forward while hanging into the aft cockpit. I really believe the soft, pre advatage seats are where it's at for what I describe. The best setup I think would be a soft fwd seat and vantage aft. If I were Hobie I would offer than as an option, wink, wink.

Looking foward to adding hakas and probably in two phases, first being one from the aft cockpit to the aka bar, like a few have done.

_________________
2014 TI w/tramps


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:25 pm
Posts: 384
Location: Jaco, Costa Rica
Or better you have an older model, non vantage TI. An Attwood (beats the Vantage in comfort and height) in the back and regular seat in the front. Doubt this has any effect on possible turtle with the Amas in play.
For myself it's not the wind that scares me directly, it's the action of the waves, period, break. If I'm going to turtle it's because of these kind of confused seas. Have not yet, but come mighty close. I am a back seater. When I get a heavier passenger up front, I really notice how the TI doesn't handle nearly as well as when I'm solo.

_________________
Mark
Costa Rica Kayak Guide
http://www.cryaker.com
Tandem Island- 2013
Sport - 2014
Revolution 11-2015


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:19 pm
Posts: 66
After so much great feedback about sitting front/back, all of it greatly appreciated and devoured, an unexpected event made the point moot: doctor orders to keep lower back pressure at a minimum or face potentially serious problems with it.

I first traced the back problems to beaching my TI for launch/trailering, by myself, twice a week. Then thought about not getting any younger, and all that jazz. Finally, I "negotiated" the obvious decision down to trying with a smaller, lighter boat (yes, it is a funny thought that such a thing could be a "negotiation"; I guess me and myself had to agree on how much cognitive dissonance "we' could tolerate vis-a-vis just quitting kayaking :P ).

So, I just sold my TI to a gracious buyer, after only 2 days listed in CL, and will be now going back to a new AI, which never felt too heavy for me. Let's hope the AI gives my back a little more rope. See you all on the water :)

Sigh...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:21 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2819
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Sad to see your situation... However, having a "bad back" myself, I believe that the weight of the Island is not the issue, rather it is the need to use technique that prevents damage to your body.*

Either Island has the potential to hurt you if you don't use careful lifting and manouvering techniques

I only launch and retrieve at boat ramps, and submerge my trailer enough that the TI floats over it, winch it to the front, and then drive out of the water. I have been happily doing this since 2012, with zero problems to the trailer or my back

* For reference, I have had serious back issues since a lifting accident in 1976, which resulted in multiple surgeries over the years, culminating in last year in fusion of 50% of my spine, (none of which were impacted my back issues).

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:41 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:13 pm
Posts: 329
Tony's absolutely right. It's not so much about the size and weight of a boat but rather how you mitigate the strain on your back.

I'm 61 and like many people in this age bracket, I have back issues. When I first got my TI, I too thought I would have to sell it because I hurt my back loading/unloading it, but then I realized it was not the boat, but my bad technique.

I then carefully assessed what I was doing wrong and corrected for the back strain. Middle/old age creeps up on all of us and when I examined what I was doing I found I was still muscling the boat around like I was still in my 20's/30's. This was totally unnecessary. Once I stopped doing this and improved my technique, there was no more strain on my back and I've never had an issue since. If you use the right technique you can load/unload boats weighing thousands of pound more than the TI. It's all about doing it right. The TI is a featherweight compared to most boats.

I wish we could have told you this before you sold your TI.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:12 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:19 pm
Posts: 66
Thanks for the warm, friendly comments; you folks are the best online community I have ever participated on!

Yes, I considered using ramps only, but it turns out that my best launching spots up and down the coast of Southern Cal are on beaches, most of them with loose sand and a hill to negotiate on the way back. I also agree that technique is important, and I can say that I addressed all the issues I could address (even trying to go up the sand gradients using zig-zags :P).

The fact remains, I had an AI before I had the TI, and managed it perfectly (almost matter-of-factly) across all sort of launching sites, never a problem. I read that the balance is much better on the TI, and yet, the AI was somehow perfect for my physique and abilities. the TI was not.

I loved the AI; when I moved to the TI, I didn't do it out of dissatisfaction with the smaller vessel, rather because I got an opportunity to buy an almost-new TI at a very, very good price (and also had a good friend who was wanting to buy the AI from me). So, I tried the TI for the last five months or so, not changing anything else in my routine. I immediately noticed the extra back strain, out-of-breath situations after dragging the boat uphill, back pain in the evening after sailing, and all that jazz; all of it launching on the same spots where I had zipped through with my AI. I even used the collective wisdom of this forum to find better ways to beach the boat, tried multiple cart set-ups... but the fact remains that the TI was too much for this old man (who always sails alone, by the way).

I think there is a line somewhere between the AI and the TI in terms of weight, moveable mechanics, trailering maneuvers, etc., and my back status is definitely on the AI side of that line. I am 66, my back has been abused and injured several times, I am obese... etc etc The thought of being paralyzed by back problems (as I have been before), as the price for my twice-a-week day sailing seemed just too daunting. It may prove that the AI is also too much for me. If that is the case I will stop kayaking. I hope not :)

Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:03 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:13 pm
Posts: 329
zorzal wrote:
Thanks for the warm, friendly comments; you folks are the best online community I have ever participated on!

Yes, I considered using ramps only, but it turns out that my best launching spots up and down the coast of Southern Cal are on beaches, most of them with loose sand and a hill to negotiate on the way back. I also agree that technique is important, and I can say that I addressed all the issues I could address (even trying to go up the sand gradients using zig-zags :P).

The fact remains, I had an AI before I had the TI, and managed it perfectly (almost matter-of-factly) across all sort of launching sites, never a problem. I read that the balance is much better on the TI, and yet, the AI was somehow perfect for my physique and abilities. the TI was not.

I loved the AI; when I moved to the TI, I didn't do it out of dissatisfaction with the smaller vessel, rather because I got an opportunity to buy an almost-new TI at a very, very good price (and also had a good friend who was wanting to buy the AI from me). So, I tried the TI for the last five months or so, not changing anything else in my routine. I immediately noticed the extra back strain, out-of-breath situations after dragging the boat uphill, back pain in the evening after sailing, and all that jazz; all of it launching on the same spots where I had zipped through with my AI. I even used the collective wisdom of this forum to find better ways to beach the boat, tried multiple cart set-ups... but the fact remains that the TI was too much for this old man (who always sails alone, by the way).

I think there is a line somewhere between the AI and the TI in terms of weight, moveable mechanics, trailering maneuvers, etc., and my back status is definitely on the AI side of that line. I am 66, my back has been abused and injured several times, I am obese... etc etc The thought of being paralyzed by back problems (as I have been before), as the price for my twice-a-week day sailing seemed just too daunting. It may prove that the AI is also too much for me. If that is the case I will stop kayaking. I hope not :)

Thanks again!

All that's important is that you have the boat you feel is best for you and that you're happy with it. It's fortunate Hobie gives us a choice. I hope you have years of enjoyment with the AI.


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