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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:22 am
Posts: 63
6'5" and 255# (okay, okay 265#) here. I sit in the back with no major issues.

I find that when I sit in the front, the nosedive becomes an issue in any chop that is over 6" to 8". The only minor issues are: (i) the line for the roller-furler is too short to make it to that back seat, so I have to add a bit of line to it and sometimes have some hassles getting it to cleat and un-cleat, and (ii) getting to the centerboard. Other than that, it's the back seat for me.

PS, the mainsheet did knock my hat off once...


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:01 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Agreed sitting in the front, ( if you don’t have a bowsprit), the boat tends to dive on a downwind, ( especially in stronger winds, and with a barbor hauler).
I suspect this is why most sit in the back.
We raised our entire mainsail up about 4 inches, ( extended mast).
And for a while we moved our sail control line a couple feet further back on the boat, (that helped a little). We just wrapped a couple loops of spectra string, (the Hobie rudder line) around the gudgeon at the back of the boat. Then attached the sail control pulley back there instead, (just above the rudder pin). It only helped a little bit, ( probably not worth the effort).
Personally I can’t stand sitting in the back seat, I really hate that sail control line on my neck all the time.
To each their own.... I like that you can sail from either seat, anytime you like.
FE


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2863
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
fusioneng wrote:
To each their own.... I like that you can sail from either seat, anytime you like.
FE

Agreed Bob. The TI is the most versatile of kayaks.
When I went from an AI with tramps to a TI with tramps the other great benefit was being able to paddle from the backseat when necessary.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:01 am
Posts: 67
Location: Northern California
When singlehanding I usually sit in the forward cockpit. I am usually in moderate wind conditions, it is not uncommon to see gusts over 20kts on a regular basis. I like it fwd because I can easily furl or unfurl and also go back and forth from the tramps during tacks and gybes. When downwind for boat trim I lay out at the back of the tramp over the aka, or will sometimes go back to the aft cockpit, especially when close to ddw, an in between of option I do is sitting on the fwd cockpit seatback flopped forward while hanging into the aft cockpit. I really believe the soft, pre advatage seats are where it's at for what I describe. The best setup I think would be a soft fwd seat and vantage aft. If I were Hobie I would offer than as an option, wink, wink.

Looking foward to adding hakas and probably in two phases, first being one from the aft cockpit to the aka bar, like a few have done.

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2014 TI w/tramps


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:59 pm 
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Posts: 387
Location: Jaco, Costa Rica
Or better you have an older model, non vantage TI. An Attwood (beats the Vantage in comfort and height) in the back and regular seat in the front. Doubt this has any effect on possible turtle with the Amas in play.
For myself it's not the wind that scares me directly, it's the action of the waves, period, break. If I'm going to turtle it's because of these kind of confused seas. Have not yet, but come mighty close. I am a back seater. When I get a heavier passenger up front, I really notice how the TI doesn't handle nearly as well as when I'm solo.

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Mark
Tandem Island- 2013
2 - Sports - 2014


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:19 pm
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After so much great feedback about sitting front/back, all of it greatly appreciated and devoured, an unexpected event made the point moot: doctor orders to keep lower back pressure at a minimum or face potentially serious problems with it.

I first traced the back problems to beaching my TI for launch/trailering, by myself, twice a week. Then thought about not getting any younger, and all that jazz. Finally, I "negotiated" the obvious decision down to trying with a smaller, lighter boat (yes, it is a funny thought that such a thing could be a "negotiation"; I guess me and myself had to agree on how much cognitive dissonance "we' could tolerate vis-a-vis just quitting kayaking :P ).

So, I just sold my TI to a gracious buyer, after only 2 days listed in CL, and will be now going back to a new AI, which never felt too heavy for me. Let's hope the AI gives my back a little more rope. See you all on the water :)

Sigh...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:21 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Sad to see your situation... However, having a "bad back" myself, I believe that the weight of the Island is not the issue, rather it is the need to use technique that prevents damage to your body.*

Either Island has the potential to hurt you if you don't use careful lifting and manouvering techniques

I only launch and retrieve at boat ramps, and submerge my trailer enough that the TI floats over it, winch it to the front, and then drive out of the water. I have been happily doing this since 2012, with zero problems to the trailer or my back

* For reference, I have had serious back issues since a lifting accident in 1976, which resulted in multiple surgeries over the years, culminating in last year in fusion of 50% of my spine, (none of which were impacted my back issues).

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:41 am 
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Posts: 655
Tony's absolutely right. It's not so much about the size and weight of a boat but rather how you mitigate the strain on your back.

I'm 61 and like many people in this age bracket, I have back issues. When I first got my TI, I too thought I would have to sell it because I hurt my back loading/unloading it, but then I realized it was not the boat, but my bad technique.

I then carefully assessed what I was doing wrong and corrected for the back strain. Middle/old age creeps up on all of us and when I examined what I was doing I found I was still muscling the boat around like I was still in my 20's/30's. This was totally unnecessary. Once I stopped doing this and improved my technique, there was no more strain on my back and I've never had an issue since. If you use the right technique you can load/unload boats weighing thousands of pound more than the TI. It's all about doing it right. The TI is a featherweight compared to most boats.

I wish we could have told you this before you sold your TI.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:12 am 
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Thanks for the warm, friendly comments; you folks are the best online community I have ever participated on!

Yes, I considered using ramps only, but it turns out that my best launching spots up and down the coast of Southern Cal are on beaches, most of them with loose sand and a hill to negotiate on the way back. I also agree that technique is important, and I can say that I addressed all the issues I could address (even trying to go up the sand gradients using zig-zags :P).

The fact remains, I had an AI before I had the TI, and managed it perfectly (almost matter-of-factly) across all sort of launching sites, never a problem. I read that the balance is much better on the TI, and yet, the AI was somehow perfect for my physique and abilities. the TI was not.

I loved the AI; when I moved to the TI, I didn't do it out of dissatisfaction with the smaller vessel, rather because I got an opportunity to buy an almost-new TI at a very, very good price (and also had a good friend who was wanting to buy the AI from me). So, I tried the TI for the last five months or so, not changing anything else in my routine. I immediately noticed the extra back strain, out-of-breath situations after dragging the boat uphill, back pain in the evening after sailing, and all that jazz; all of it launching on the same spots where I had zipped through with my AI. I even used the collective wisdom of this forum to find better ways to beach the boat, tried multiple cart set-ups... but the fact remains that the TI was too much for this old man (who always sails alone, by the way).

I think there is a line somewhere between the AI and the TI in terms of weight, moveable mechanics, trailering maneuvers, etc., and my back status is definitely on the AI side of that line. I am 66, my back has been abused and injured several times, I am obese... etc etc The thought of being paralyzed by back problems (as I have been before), as the price for my twice-a-week day sailing seemed just too daunting. It may prove that the AI is also too much for me. If that is the case I will stop kayaking. I hope not :)

Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:03 am 
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zorzal wrote:
Thanks for the warm, friendly comments; you folks are the best online community I have ever participated on!

Yes, I considered using ramps only, but it turns out that my best launching spots up and down the coast of Southern Cal are on beaches, most of them with loose sand and a hill to negotiate on the way back. I also agree that technique is important, and I can say that I addressed all the issues I could address (even trying to go up the sand gradients using zig-zags :P).

The fact remains, I had an AI before I had the TI, and managed it perfectly (almost matter-of-factly) across all sort of launching sites, never a problem. I read that the balance is much better on the TI, and yet, the AI was somehow perfect for my physique and abilities. the TI was not.

I loved the AI; when I moved to the TI, I didn't do it out of dissatisfaction with the smaller vessel, rather because I got an opportunity to buy an almost-new TI at a very, very good price (and also had a good friend who was wanting to buy the AI from me). So, I tried the TI for the last five months or so, not changing anything else in my routine. I immediately noticed the extra back strain, out-of-breath situations after dragging the boat uphill, back pain in the evening after sailing, and all that jazz; all of it launching on the same spots where I had zipped through with my AI. I even used the collective wisdom of this forum to find better ways to beach the boat, tried multiple cart set-ups... but the fact remains that the TI was too much for this old man (who always sails alone, by the way).

I think there is a line somewhere between the AI and the TI in terms of weight, moveable mechanics, trailering maneuvers, etc., and my back status is definitely on the AI side of that line. I am 66, my back has been abused and injured several times, I am obese... etc etc The thought of being paralyzed by back problems (as I have been before), as the price for my twice-a-week day sailing seemed just too daunting. It may prove that the AI is also too much for me. If that is the case I will stop kayaking. I hope not :)

Thanks again!

All that's important is that you have the boat you feel is best for you and that you're happy with it. It's fortunate Hobie gives us a choice. I hope you have years of enjoyment with the AI.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:30 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:56 am
Posts: 50
mmiller wrote:
One problem with sitting forward is reduced steering capability. Weight forward makes turning through tacks sluggish. Rudder is up and bow is down dragging through the water.


I read this last summer, when this thread was active, but didn't realize just how much of a difference it made. Since my boat was brand new at the time I spent last summer just getting used to it. Since the furling line and centerboard are set-up for front seat control from the factory I stuck with the front seat for solo sailing. I have to admit that I was somewhat disappointed in the performance. The boat was, as Matt said, sluggish through the turns which required me to pedal through almost every tack. Being a dedicated sailor this is bordering on unacceptable. Besides that the the amas would often submerge slowing the boat way down and adding to my frustration. Having spent all the money that I made from selling my 26' sailboat I really wanted to make it work.

Finally last week I installed the spinnaker in preparation for the new season and, while I was at it, I added a turning block and moved the furling cleat to the rear aka with a longer line. Sure, I wanted to give piloting from the aft seat a try but I mostly did this so that the wife could take care of the dogs on the trampolines while I controlled the TI from the rear. Yesterday my wife wanted to go in early which gave me the opportunity to solo from the aft position. The change in performance was like night and day. Not only was I was able to glide effortlessly through the tacks without pedaling but the amas stayed on top of the water and the craft seemed to fly across the surface.

A line running from the cockpit to the end of the rear akas then to a carabiner that I can attach to either the mainsheet or the spinnaker sheets serves to, not only help control the position of the clew, but also allows me to hold the mainsheet off my neck and shoulders when the sail is furled. The same line also helps keep the spinnaker sheets off the trampolines when the dogs are onboard. I don't think I'll ever go back to soloing from the forward seat.

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Bud
--------------------------------------

2018 Tandem Island -


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:10 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:16 pm
Posts: 605
Location: Colorado
Quote:
A line running from the cockpit to the end of the rear akas then to a carabiner that I can attach to either the mainsheet or the spinnaker sheets serves to, not only help control the position of the clew, but also allows me to hold the mainsheet off my neck and shoulders when the sail is furled.


Ive been having fun with this "whisker boom / 3d sheet" that I can only use from the rear seat and solo. This is a second rev using a very light and stiff 100% carbon windsurfing mast top and I can really tune in the sail shape/ twist. Im not sure how this setup compares to a stock TI since I have not tested against other TI's but I have been sailing on a small Denver lake with a lot of dingy and keel boat racing and its been fun. Yesterday I was out solo with the whisker boom and pedaled in light winds but had no problem walking away from both a J22 and Catalina 30 in pretty much all wind conditions.

I like the rear seat also in big gusts. About a month ago a couple of us on TI's were sailing on a very gusty wind day. I was just using the loop barber haul (no boom) from the rear seat and the other TI was sailing from the front seat. Big gust and I had a peak speed of 13.5 mph. The other boat sailed from the front seat just under 12 mph. The difference was likely control and not worrying about a pitchpole.

But.. I think there is some chance that in the lighter winds, these boats are faster when sailed from the front seat.

Picture from a fun day yesterday..

Image


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:41 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:10 am
Posts: 15
Location: Hawkins Point, MD
I installed the Hobie spinnaker this spring, and one thing to note is that in a stiff wind it will absolutely bury your front end if you're riding front-seat. My kayak has been transformed into a submarine! :lol:

I've been riding front-seat since I bought my TI last year, but I think I'm going to have to do the work so I can comfortably ride in the rear solo now. The spinnaker just doesn't jive with a heavy guy in the front seat solo.

_________________
2015 Hobie TI (bought used), sailing since summer 2018.
Haven't capsized yet, but I'll keep trying!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3057
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
That reminds me of a funny story, from long ago, (2010). When I first bought my TI I added a 135 sq ft spinnaker, (lol, like the first week we owned the boat).
We were out with the family, (4 on board) and I opened up the spinnaker and the boat took off like a rocket, however the bow went completely under water and just stayed underwater, we called it nautilus mode. I’m a balls to the wall type person, so I would never pull the sail in. Everyone got drenched, didn’t seem to slow the boat down much.
I went home and made a 2ft bowsprit and mounted it to the boat, and the boat never dived again, (by tilting the jib and spinnaker, they create lift to the bow). Funny I had that stupid bowsprit, (the exact same unit) for 8 yrs, never had any issues with it, ( I could even climb out or walk out on the bowsprit to untangle sails, we also lifted the boat by the bowsprit all the time, (a handy handhold).
Just a funny story about nose diving, your comments reminded me of that, to this day my family still makes fun of me over that, (nautilus mode, lol).
FE


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