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 Post subject: Capsizing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:32 pm
Posts: 5
New to sailing and just bought a useed AI. Took it out this weekend but everytime a big wind would come up I'd chicken out and release the main sheet. Guess I'm afraid of capsizing the boat.
My question is, am I being over cautious? Seems like it would be pretty hard to flip but I remember doing that in a small sail boat about 30 years ago.
Anyone out there flipped theres yet?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Capsizing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:22 am
Posts: 50
Only time I've ever flipped is when an an aka collapsed, which was my own fault for not making sure that the nylock bolt was fully secured.


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 Post subject: Re: Capsizing
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2991
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Of course the boat will flip in higher winds if you don’t furl the sail in.
Keep an eye on your AMA’s if they go more than halfway underwater, it’s best to furl the sail in a turn or two.
In real heavy wind you may have it furled in 5-6 turns. Releasing the sail control line some also helps, and turning higher into the wind also helps.
Gusty conditions are the worst, because you sometimes can’t react fast enough to keep from going over, ( once an AMA goes completely underwater, it doesn’t take much to go the rest of the way over. It’s best to furl he sail in some in gusty conditions. Typically furling in a turn or two doesn’t slow the boat down in higher winds. Also the rudders on these boats are smallish, if you have too much sail out you can lose helm control.
As long as the outside tell is streaming your ok, the inside tell can dance a little and the boat won’t heel as much, not quite as efficient, but safer.
Also if questionable conditions, keep your sail control line in your hand, ready to uncleat and release quickly.
Good news is, very seldom do we hear about capsizes with these boats, ( way more forgiving than my old sunfish). However it’s a good idea to practice capsize recovery so you know how to right the boat.
FE


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 Post subject: Re: Capsizing
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:46 am 
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Yes, you can capsize an AI or TI in the right conditions, even without an ama/aka malfunction, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. The AI/TI is quite resistant to capsizing (once you've made the necessary modifications), but any small sailboat can capsize in the right conditions and it can happen quickly. A capsized AI/TI requires practice and skill to upright, especially in rough conditions. Be sure to watch this video.

The trick is to try to never put yourself in that situation by planning ahead for all circumstances and acting accordingly. Here are some tips I've learned along the way, sometimes the hard way.

Know your limitations, if you're an inexperienced sailor, don't go out on days with small craft warnings. Until you learn the basics and the boat, don't sail in wind conditions exceeding 10-15 knots. Give yourself plenty of time to learn in milder conditions. Take a sailing class if available. If not, read as much as you can about basic sailing. The AI/TI are one of the easiest boats to sail and to learn to sail on. But take it slow and safe at first.

Don't sail too far out from shore or from your starting point. If the winds change or conditions deteriorate, as they often do, you may find you can't get back before dark. Always plan your day trips with plenty of room for error at first. If you blissfully sail for several hours downwind keep in mind it may take you much, much longer to get back upwind. You will soon learn your range and can then safely explore further.

You may find yourself suddenly in stormy conditions with high winds and strong waves/currents, even on a day where a storm wasn't predicted. If this happens, get to the nearest safe shore immediately and wait it out, don't try to make it back in conditions exceeding 15-20 knots until you are an experienced sailor. Furl early if the winds pick up. Don't wait. It can be very difficult to furl the sail as the winds get stronger, especially if you're inexperienced.

I always suggest that the safest option you can add to a TI/AI is a motor. A gas or electric motor makes an excellent backup to any small sailboat. If you find you've gone too far out to peddle back after the winds unexpectedly die down, or if you're trying to get back against an unexpected strong headwind or current, the motor will get you safely home. If you find yourself unexpectedly in high wind conditions such as when the winds pick up more than predicted or in a storm, you can simply furl the sail completely and let the motor take you back to safety. Once the sail is fully furled, the chances of a capsize are remote. In this forum, this is called "Get out of Dodge" mode.

I've owned my TI since 2015 and I've been in all of these conditions and more. The majority of the time I feel very safe, but there have been incidents that gave me a far greater respect for nature. I once almost capsized in a storm in which I'm not certain I would have survived. The Hobie AI/TI are very safe, well-made boats and there is no need to fear them, but like all boats, they have to be operated safely within their limitations, and that's the full responsibility of the captain. Nature is an awesome force, never underestimate it. Respect it and always be prepared.


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 Post subject: Re: Capsizing
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2991
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Well said


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 Post subject: Re: Capsizing
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:04 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:01 am
Posts: 185
Location: Orlando!
I've recently transitioned from inshore flats fishing to BTB fishing in the Atlantic which can go to several miles offshore. Here storms can pop up over land and push offshore with tropical storm winds with little notice.

One piece of equipment that I've added to mitigate flipping or being blown way off course in high winds is a drogue chute. Properly deployed it will keep your nose/ tail to the wind to prevent a broach from big waves and wind, and dramatically slow down wind drift.

_________________
Tandem Island V2 "The Red Pill"


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 Post subject: Re: Capsizing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 3306
Location: South Florida
@ PP--How big a drogue chute did you get?

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon


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 Post subject: Re: Capsizing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:25 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2819
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
My drogue is about 20 inches across the mouth, and about 24 inches long, made from kevlar. If needed, I would deploy it at least 4-5 waves back (or a couple of swells)

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


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 Post subject: Re: Capsizing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:35 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
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Location: South Florida
Here is one on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/MOOCY-24-Inch-Anchor-Drogue-Inflatable/dp/B07BPFRWZP/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1528295096&sr=1-3-fkmr0&keywords=kevlar+drogue

When we sea kayaked, I had drogues for each boat, but I've never had one for my AIs/TI.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon


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 Post subject: Re: Capsizing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:45 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2991
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Me either, probably should have had one though, make a lot of sense.
FE


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 Post subject: Re: Capsizing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:01 am
Posts: 185
Location: Orlando!
Chekika wrote:
@ PP--How big a drogue chute did you get?

Keith


This one:

https://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... xrEALw_wcB

I modified it by zip tying 1/8” nylon ice maker line around the rim to keep the mouth open under all conditions, then tied it to a 20’ anchor line with a small float. The float keeeps the chute near the surface.

Image

To use it, I make a yoke from a 20’ ish piece of rope, tie a hitch knot just inboard of each rear aka knuckle, then clip the drogue line to that. It stays clear of the rudder though i usually pull the rudder up right before deploying. Ive used it twice during sporty surf reentries, one time with a breaking wave knocking the left front aka loose, and both times kept the boat rock solid, even allowing the stern to ride up with the waves, minimizing the wash coming over the back.

Be prepared to establish your heading first because once that rope comes tight, even though the clip is free on the yoke, it will not change course unless you backpaddle to create slack.

I was inspired by this video, but since have read up on its many uses.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q_sD9H63TEs

_________________
Tandem Island V2 "The Red Pill"


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 Post subject: Re: Capsizing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2991
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
That’s way better than using my anchor, (you have to go out there and get the anchor if it’s your last trip of the day).
FE


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 Post subject: Re: Capsizing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:32 pm
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Excellent and very helpful advice from everyone. I appreciate all the input.

Pro10ish- Mind clarifying what the "necessary modifications" are?


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 Post subject: Re: Capsizing
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
I’m sure Pro10 will explain in detail, in the meantime do a search on the forum for ‘ aka keepout lines’ or ‘ama or aka safety lines’
Basically they prevent the AMA’s from folding in ,( making the boat capsize) in the event of the nylon safety sheer pin on the AKA brace sheering.
All the offshore guys especially make this simple mod.
It’s like $2 bucks and five minutes of your time to install, (just one time), they stay on the boat forever.
FE


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 Post subject: Re: Capsizing
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:44 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:13 pm
Posts: 327
fusioneng wrote:
I’m sure Pro10 will explain in detail, in the meantime do a search on the forum for ‘ aka keepout lines’ or ‘ama or aka safety lines’
Basically they prevent the AMA’s from folding in ,( making the boat capsize) in the event of the nylon safety sheer pin on the AKA brace sheering.
All the offshore guys especially make this simple mod.
It’s like $2 bucks and five minutes of your time to install, (just one time), they stay on the boat forever.
FE

I couldn't have said this better and all the info you need is very clearly detailed in this forum.

You'll want to add the aka keepout modification lines, or, if you prefer, you can use tramps which do not allow the akas to fold in the event of a shear pin breakage.

You'll also want to add the mods to prevent the akas from pulling out of their sockets unexpectedly. There have been several owner made mods you can add but now Hobie has released a free new upgrade for this which you can get from any Hobie dealer even if you didn't buy the boat there. Here is the info: https://static.hobiecat.com/item_attachments/79520604.pdf

Tell your Hobie dealer you want the Hobie Island Aka Spring Hook Replacement. They should have them in stock by now.


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