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 Post subject: Re: Bigger Trimarans?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:30 pm
Posts: 787
Location: Benicia, CA
With the rudder up and the daggerboard out, SeaRail drafts about a foot, maybe 18" depending on how much stuff you put inside it. It is 15' wide, though. While you can fold it and put it into a slip, it's more of a pain to do than a Corsair since you have to rerig the mast raising and lowering gear before you fold or unfold and you have to loosen and then tighten the shrouds--when I leave it overnight, I get a side slip and leave it unfolded. The jib roller furls around the forestay, I'd hate to think about what would happen if you were folded and it managed to be deployed. Phil says you can motor with it folded...I sure don't want to try it, the boat is real narrow and very tippy when folded--much more so than my F242 was.

SeaRail is sports boat (similar in concept to Diam 24 but designed to be single handed), Corsairs are more designed to be family friendly. Don't want to discourage anyone from getting one, but you have to know what you are getting. The cabin is good for storing sails and one person who is not claustrophobic can get inside if the sails aren't there, but I'm 5'9" and 200 pounds and I cannot turn over or even onto my side--think of it as a fiberglass sleeping bag and you won't be far off.

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SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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 Post subject: Re: Bigger Trimarans?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
I’ve been enjoying reading this discussion and the issues mentioned, which are what I’ve been wrestling with the last couple of months researching an upgrade for my TI. The input from those with experience is valued, thanks.
It’s not an easy decision. Though many of the tri’s have benefits over the TI there are also significant negatives with all of them. If its not the much longer set up times or much more difficult mast stepping it’s the cost or sheer size.



Defy wrote:
Nice but tramps are a must (kids and wife like the space)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Funny, but one of the benefits that drew me to the Seascape was the huge open deck area. I’m a bit over walking on tramps and would prefer something solid to stand on that you don’t get splashed through. I like how you can stand and then easily sit on the deck or up on the gunwale to hike out:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Bigger Trimarans?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
tpdavis473 wrote:
How can you like a Seascape 18 and not prefer a Hobie Getaway? LOTS more room...sure no cabin but there's not much cabin on the seascape. Besides, with a monohull as soon as you lean, you quickly become mean. :)

I know, I know, ...and I’ve surprised myself that I’m actually looking at a monohull. It’s just that I’ve done a heap of research on this the last couple of months and watched so many videos. Some of yours included. I did consider the Getaway, (I really liked the wing seats) but I was put off by the fact that it is a cat and prone to capsize, and the more difficult mast stepping and wet ride. I think it was your video of your handover to the new owner that highlighted the wet ride with splashing up through the tramps and from the ama.
I also consider a cabin I can sleep in (no matter how small) a must for it to be a worthwhile upgrade.
The Seascape 18 is not like normal dinghy’s in that it is extremely stable and difficult to capsize/pitchpole. All the reviews I’ve read comment on it’s stability and ease of sailing. The videos I’ve seen and the class racing in Europe all back that up. It has chines that once are locked in it is stable even when heeled over. It is also self righting, with its drop keel and has a 6” draft when the keel is winched up. A CE “C” rating is also a plus.


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 Post subject: Re: Bigger Trimarans?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:54 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Tom Kirkman wrote:
The SeaRail 19 and the new Astus 20.5 both seem to check all the boxes you indicated, including a price tag of well below 50K.

Tom,
I read your scathing review of the Astus 16.5 on the SA forum. Have Astus improved their QC that you are aware of?


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 Post subject: Re: Bigger Trimarans?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:57 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2819
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Here is some food for thought regarding a bigger multihull (Not picking on Weta, the issues are related to size rather than brand)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xXm-x3OgD0

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


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 Post subject: Re: Bigger Trimarans?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 2601
Location: High Point, NC
stringy wrote:
Tom Kirkman wrote:
The SeaRail 19 and the new Astus 20.5 both seem to check all the boxes you indicated, including a price tag of well below 50K.

Tom,
I read your scathing review of the Astus 16.5 on the SA forum. Have Astus improved their QC that you are aware of?



No idea but I would hope so. It is a pity to be using what is arguably the most modern hull design today (the Astus 16.5 is a Diam 24 that has had roughly 6 feet removed from its mid section and a cuddy added) and not building to a level equal to that design. Maybe I got the only bad one they ever built, but...


Last edited by Tom Kirkman on Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bigger Trimarans?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:48 am
Posts: 13
Location: England, UK
Tom Kirkman wrote:
RedKite:

The idea that the Searail or Pulse 600 are only "slightly bigger" than the TI is far from the reality. These boats are absolutely huge compared to the TI. You have to look at more than length to really understand the difference. Again I would suggest you find one and look at it or even try to arrange a test sail.


I do appreciate that, and the larger size is what might suit us over a 23'+ cabin boat, in terms of size, weight & costs.
But point taken, we're hoping to view some examples later this year, and would always sail before buying (as a family, just as we did the TI).


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 Post subject: Re: Bigger Trimarans?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:55 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:30 pm
Posts: 787
Location: Benicia, CA
[/quote]
The Seascape 18 is not like normal dinghy’s in that it is extremely stable and difficult to capsize/pitchpole. All the reviews I’ve read comment on it’s stability and ease of sailing. The videos I’ve seen and the class racing in Europe all back that up. It has chines that once are locked in it is stable even when heeled over. It is also self righting, with its drop keel and has a 6” draft when the keel is winched up. A CE “C” rating is also a plus.[/quote]

It is a nice looking boat and I expect it is probably as fast as the TI. Winching up the keel sounds like a lot of fun while in the surf prior to beaching :), but maybe you don't beach. Just be careful with the littlies and the boom on gybes. I think booms are dangerous for family sailing-it's one of the things that can kill you while sailing. My last three boats had no boom and I don't think I'll ever get another boat with boom.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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 Post subject: Re: Bigger Trimarans?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Yes TP, the boom is one negative over the TI. In that regard the F22, which has a boomless main has the advantage. The Pulse has a boom but it is roller furling.
Re speed -the Seascape with its planing hull is capable of 14+ knots downwind (see https://www.sailingrecord.com/ ) and from what I’ve been able to find out at least 6+ knots upwind.
I’ve seen speeds on the TI max out at 10+ knots downwind, though most common 7-9 knots and 5-7 knots upwind.


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 Post subject: Re: Bigger Trimarans?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:53 pm 
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Location: Benicia, CA
If I were to get into monohull beercan racing, the Seascape 24 looks like a real hoot. An updated Melges 24 which was nearly as fast as my F242. But 60K is a lot of money for a hobby--and you are at the mercy of the rating committee which could give you "a number" that makes your every outing futile if your goal is winning. Looking at the promo for it, the interior cabin looks just like the one on my F242.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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 Post subject: Re: Bigger Trimarans?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:51 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:16 pm
Posts: 566
Location: Colorado
If your history is to buy a boat, keep it for a few years then want something different for whatever reason (some friends I know are like this LOL).. then the question:

How is the resale on the boats you are looking at? Losing 20% on 60K is way different than on 8K.

Interesting with a lot of production fiber glass monuhulls that havent done much different design wise end up competing with their own used boats for new sales. I have seen someone who bought a new boat, then wanted to sell it and in once case just to cover what was left on the loan and it was priced way higher than older nearly identical boats in nearly as good of shape. Note.. this boat has not sold yet.

But if you have no option to buy used because the boat is so new and cutting edge, the resale is likely to be better (guess.. I dont know)??


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 Post subject: Re: Bigger Trimarans?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:19 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2987
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
We owned larger boats, (we had a 24ft searay), what a money pit that was. Dry storage down here is $400/mo, the boat was $60k plus. And maint was huge, it was very painful to fill the 80 gal tank when marine fuel ws $4/gal.
My friends tell me maint on sail boats can be higher, (I have no idea for sure).
We met a family who sailed their 27 ft sailboat from houston area to sarasota. The said they would never attempt anything like that again, many no wind days were they were just a bobber in the gulf ( according to them), they were really bitter.
We purchased our TI’s and can do everything we could do with the searay, and then some. Maint was next to nothing, ( we stored in our garage on trailer.
Sure we only day sail, but it’s so blinking hot here, (lows in he 80’s), no way could we sleep on board or in a tent down here.
Our setup was rigged for 100 miles per day range, just about perfect for the keys. Not perfect, but it all got the job done.
Just my 2 cents
FE


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 Post subject: Re: Bigger Trimarans?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:46 am 
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Location: Benicia, CA
Absolutely correct, FE. Bigger boat, bigger bills and less market to resell. A rule of thumb is to expect to spend 10% of your boat cost annually for maintenance. In the 12 years I owned the F242 it was probably that much. Paid 50K for it new, paid on average 5K a year (and I trailer sailed with it parked in my yard), raced the heck out of it, and sold it for 39K (F242s were still in production and selling for 65K). My feeling then and still now is that the 24' trimaran cabin cruiser is still about perfect, can beach, motor, nice size cabin, decent performance. I downsized mainly because I got old--but truthfully, the SeaRail is harder to set up and take down--but who knew prior to purchase...I got the very first one that folded.

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SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II


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 Post subject: Re: Bigger Trimarans?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:57 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:47 am
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Location: new smyrna beach
damn you for mentioning a dragonfly! first time i seen one i was hooked. what got me was the winching folding amas and trailerable (25ft). but that 75k is waaayyyy outta my price range. but man that is one slick looking tri


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 Post subject: Re: Bigger Trimarans?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:34 pm 
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I think I have settled on an F-22 for my expensive boat.

Still looking at a used Corsair 24/sprint as my starter into the world of big Tris.

I did find a searail for 27k but I am waiting till the boat show in Annapolis MD to see what they have.


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