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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:54 am 
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Location: Pula - Sardinia
as I wrote before i am facing a very disappointing problem with a little hole inside the mirage drive seat that is driving me crazy
since i cannot work from the inside in that point i thought to add some welded plastic (hobie origina) on the hole but in this way i increase the surface and the mirage drive touch it when moving and this increase the problem. the mirage drive doesnt go in the blocks anf it pushes against the repair . now the hole is bigger than before.
i wonder if the 2 blocks could be "adjusted" and raised a little in order to allow me to put some plastic on the hole. sorry to say that this is not a very good point for the design since i read other problems happened in that same place. since it's under the waterline and u could risk a lot with water inside the hull i suggest Hobie to improve this point. my tandem is a 2014


https://drive.google.com/file/d/15-lBp_Ot4i4HXT0Pe2tdXotA6VL5RUvG/view?usp=sharing


Last edited by Sardinian Islander on Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:58 pm 
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There’s something lost in translation SI and your problem isn’t clear.
You have a hole in the drivewell ledge and want to raise the click-n-go levers???
Please try and repost your pic as it is not showing.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Location: Pula - Sardinia
Stingy can u see the picture now?
sorry for my poor knowledge of some english terms
i try to explain again. the point of the hull where we insert the drive (circled in my picture) had a little hole. since it is under the waterline you can understand that the amount of water was huge after some hours.

i welded some plastic on it but in this way the mirage drive "touch" and grab the place where i welded the plastic.
the friction removed the welded plastic and increased the size of the hole.
I thought that if I could raise the click-n- go levers of only 0.1 inch the drive shoudnt grab the plastic anymore. i saw that the levers have a bolt so maybe i could add a metal plate under it in order to raise them. do you think it should work or maybe u have a better idea to suggest me?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:26 pm 
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I think you could probably add shims/washer under the bolts to raise the mounts.

EDIT just saw your original post photo. You are talking about the front well nib wearing through. Raising the mount wont reslolve this as the drive simply pushes forward when pedalling and will rest on this. I have the same leak in my old retired adventure hull. You simply need a better and stronger weld job. A full patch not just a crack fill. Maybe by someone more experienced in it. Embedding a little stainless steel mesh in the repair is often suggested. If it is a thick repair then you may need to raise the drive simply to fit it into the new raised housing(depending on your available tolerance)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:33 am 
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Location: Pula - Sardinia
Thank u waverider. If I raise the levers. Do u think I can still use the same bolts or I need longer? How is the head of that bolt. Which tool do I need?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:19 am 
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I see the picture SI.
The drive is designed to rest on that forward ledge so raising the lever locks won’t help. I agree with Waverider that a proper weld is needed, or use the correct PE epoxy. Hobie don’t recommend a repair in that area though and a replacement hull is the safest option.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:25 pm 
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Honestly I dont want to think at a replacement hull and I am very surprised that in Hobie design there is a so big potential problem. they should have reinforced the drivewell considering that there are forces applied to the plastic there.
Moreover I just bought this tandem used and I cannot think at the cost of a replacement hull.

I thought to raise the levers because if i cover the crack with plastic, the drive will not enter properly anymore so i have to apply a bigger force to enter and in this way tge repair will be scratched even more.
I thought that if i raise the levers i should probably return to the initial conditions. but this is theory
I am starting to think that i will never get rid of this problem and maybe also abandon completely the boat i love. I am really very sad


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Can you shave away a corresponding amount off the mirage drive without weakening it?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:14 pm 
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I think I understand your problem... Obviously your top priority is to seal the leak in the front of the drivewell. You believe this will result in a raised lump just where the front of the Miragedrive rests.

By increasing the height of the retaining catches, you will not be forcing the Miragedrive into the catches due to the front of the drive being held up by the raised lump in the drive well (this pressure risking failure of the seal).

If that is the correct understanding, then raising the catches makes sense.

Good luck.

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:52 am 
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Thanx Tony
maybe I will try it, though I am not very optimistic. I wonder how much can I raise the clatches of the drive. In this moment I cannot check on my own because I gave the boat to somebody who is fixing the leak.
I wonder if rasing the drive maybe 0.3 inches could cause the finns not to move correctly under the well.
I have also another idea that I will probably explain in another post. has anybody realized a metal "jacket" for the whole drivewell?
if i had a complete metal armour of the well the drive should press on the metal and not on the welded plastic.
i wonder if the several people who had this problem with the drivewell leak had to change the whole hull of if they find a solution


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:28 am 
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Sardinian Islander wrote:
Honestly I dont want to think at a replacement hull and I am very surprised that in Hobie design there is a so big potential problem. they should have reinforced the drivewell considering that there are forces applied to the plastic there.
Moreover I just bought this tandem used and I cannot think at the cost of a replacement hull.

I thought to raise the levers because if i cover the crack with plastic, the drive will not enter properly anymore so i have to apply a bigger force to enter and in this way tge repair will be scratched even more.
I thought that if i raise the levers i should probably return to the initial conditions. but this is theory
I am starting to think that i will never get rid of this problem and maybe also abandon completely the boat i love. I am really very sad


There is typically a bit of a gap where the drive rests on the ledges, so there is a bit of tolerance to raising it a bit before it fouls the drive. You could also shave a bit off the drive spine nibs. Take a small bit off front and back (given it rocks back and forth you dont have to take it all off the front)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:20 pm 
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You have some options. First, I would not mess with the Click N Go settings. You can accomplish the same objective by trimming your front spine tongue on your Mirage Drive to accommodate a thicker front shelf, as Pescatoral Pursuit and WAVERIDER have suggested. Regardless, I believe whatever caused the leak will do the same thing again sooner or later.

It is possible to transfer the load bearing from the front of your drivewell to the rear. Here is some background.

When you put your Drive in the drivewell, it should rock forward and back a small amount once locked in position. It is designed this way so the Drive positively seats in the C&G locks. Normally the tongue on your Drive pivots down and rests on the front drivewell shelf. Since this is leaking and you have no internal access, let me suggest modifying the drivewell so the Drive hits the back of the drivewell instead of the front. This transfers all the stress from the front to the rear, so you can now seal the front leak without a stress crack re-developing.

How to do this? You may be able to add material to the back of the drivewell shelf where the Drive pivots against it. If there is not enough room, cut down the front spine tongue so it doesn't hit the drivewell shelf. This first pic shows a Mirage Drive with both front and rear tongues cut off. I'm not suggesting this, but this Drive still functions without the tongues:

Image

The next pic shows that with the front tongue removed (or cut down), the rear of the Drive now can contact the rear drivewell shelf:

Image

The problem with this arrangement is that the rear drivewell area is not reinforced to take stress from the Drive. So, unless you want another leak eventually, you should reinforce this area. You will have access from the inside to build up this area and alleviate some of the stress. Personally I am not a big fan of plastic welding in high stress areas, as your recent results have demonstrated. If you have access to a product called Loctite 3035, it is very good at bonding to PE and has some structural integrity of its own.

One way or the other, you should be able to fix your leak. 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:12 am 
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Roadrunner, so what you are saying is the rear jams against the leading edge of the of the rear lip when the drive rocks forward, rather then down on to the forward lip. Interesting concept, at least this part of the hull will not have had any prior wear. maybe a bit of aluminium sleeve slipped in there may reinforce it??


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:13 pm 
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WAVERIDER wrote:
Roadrunner, so what you are saying is the rear jams against the leading edge of the of the rear lip when the drive rocks forward, rather then down on to the forward lip. Interesting concept, at least this part of the hull will not have had any prior wear. maybe a bit of aluminium sleeve slipped in there may reinforce it??
Exactly! Again, Hobie wouldn't recommend this procedure because this area is unreinforced ... but considering that the front if the drivewell is leaking with no viable options for permanent repair (IMO), it can be made to work. If the stress is removed from the drivewell front shelf, it should be easy to seal the leak.

First step -- fit the appointed Drive to the drivewell and see how it fits.

Second step -- decide how much material to shave off the bottom of the Drive front tongue. This will be determined by how you modify the rear drivewell shelf:
Image
Image

Third step -- internal reinforcement. The stress forces associated with this new option are backwards and up. The drivewell is more or less a rigid unit, but the hull where it attaches is not. The result is an oil-can effect. Accordingly, a horseshoe shaped reinforcement patch needs to be applied on the hull to stabilize this area, sort of like this:
Image

I would not use metal, as it does not bond well with PE. Additionally, a PE plate can be softened to conform to the hull shape. To create the bond I would recommend either Loctite 3035 or Scotchweld DP 8010 (NOT 8010NS).

This should extend the life of the boat at least a few years. 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:02 pm 
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Sorry, but I have difficulty sgreeing with your logic.

1. Pedal forces are concentrated on the FRONT lip.
2. Building up the rear of the socket will INCREASE forces on the front lip.
3. In order to seal the leak, it appears necessary to build up the front lip during the repair.
4. This will result, if nothing else changes, in greater pressure on the front lip due to the retaining "axle"
5. Raising the "axle" by shimmimg the drive mount will lessen pressure on the front lip,
OR shaving off some of the front of the Miragedrive to accommodate the raised surface of the fron lip.

I see absolutely no benefit in raising the rear lip.

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


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