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Hobie Tandem Offshore - Mr Hobie - We Need a New Kayak!
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Author:  walt [ Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hobie Tandem Offshore - Mr Hobie - We Need a New Kayak!

try a search on "small sailing trimaran" or something like that. Lots of designs come up. I cant say for sure but I would bet that none of them are even remotely as successful as the Hobie Adventures even though no doubt some are faster. But so is an old Hobie 14 along with pretty much every cat Hobie has every sold. FYI, try comparing raising the mast on just about every one of the faster cats compared to the TI mast.. TI mast setup is so much easier. Of compare the mast raising to any of the same size or larger Tri's..

I like the boat as is with some minor tweaks but its not the only sailing boat I have. Another idea that I likely will never try but I find somewhat interesting.

Instead of the floppy mast and furling sail (which I actually really really like on this boat), how about a bendy carbon fiber rotating wing mast with about a 8 to 12 inch cord. Attached to the carbon fiber wing mast would be a fat head soft sail. Maybe total sail area of 5 to 7 sq meters. You would have both a sheet for the soft sail plus a "sheet" or rotation control for the CF wing mast.

Wing mast have to be rigid to support the pressure differences they can generate without distorting so you really cant do this with soft double surface sails (been tried over the years.. doesnt really do much). Might be stayed or maybe not. In higher winds, you could probably just sail the boat on the mast alone. But.. this would snowball and you would be wondering what speed improvement you would get if the whole boat was carbon fiber and much lighter.

One question.. what makes you think a wider tail end would make the TI plane? Just making the back end wider does not resemble at all any traditional planning hulls. I think the chances are just as good that it would just slow you down from higher wetted surface. Are there any examples of existing trimarans that have some sort of wide back end?

Author:  bluelaser2 [ Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hobie Tandem Offshore - Mr Hobie - We Need a New Kayak!

A hull that's fast in light air / displacement conditions AND high speed planing tends to have a deep v forward and a flat run aft. They need not be wide, just flat. Long, skinny hulls have problems planing because they don't have enough wetted surface to weight ratio- but long skinny surfboards don't have that problem. If you make the TI much lighter, it already has the deep vee forward. A much flatter run aft would encourage surfing at least, if not outright planing, esp. with the body weight aft as it is on a TI.

Author:  KniceZ [ Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hobie Tandem Offshore - Mr Hobie - We Need a New Kayak!

I understand the desire for a more robust off-shore version. But how much of the market does that represent for the TI?

I'm very new to this - just got my TI in August. For me I'm looking for a third improvements - better low wind performance, better up-wind performance, easier ability to hike out especially from the back seat. I think these all can be accomplished with a jib (preferably a simple self tacking one with minimal extra lines), and Hakas.

Oh yeah I almost forgot - fix the front hatch so it's actually water tight. I haven't gotten into anything the rough and I still need to drain the boat after every outing.

Author:  fusioneng [ Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hobie Tandem Offshore - Mr Hobie - We Need a New Kayak!

Even with my planing hull mod, the boat isn’t really planing I suspect, It’s semi-planing. The problem I had prior to adding the planing mod was the pointed stern sinking down underwater at around 9mph cruise speed, going any faster required huge horspower requirements which increased exponentially, (like a brick wall).
The planing hull mod delayed the stern wave from forming and moved the stern wave behind the boat about 2-3ft, (vs right over the stern previously). This allowed the boat to get up over 15mph (with the stock motors, 20mph with modified motors, (or in higher winds with the big spin deployed). Anything over 10-12mph cruise speed gets quite dangerous, and not really recommended.
The hull speed is around 8.5mph for the TI, I don’t recommend going much over that. Running the boat fast in anything other than flat water is not recommended, ( the hull can’t withstand the stress).
Cruising anything over around 9mph is an exhausting experience even in low 5-6mph winds and flat water. If adding outboards and massive sails don’t set your goals too high, ( you will be disapointed).
Also keep in mind if your sailing upwind in say 12mph winds at 12mph forward speed, thats around 25mph winds on your face, and on your sails and masts, we snapped several masts doin that kind of crap, (really hard on the boat).
99% of the TI owners like the stock boat as it comes from the factory, majority rules, if you want more, get somethin else.
Just my opinions
FE

Author:  fusioneng [ Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hobie Tandem Offshore - Mr Hobie - We Need a New Kayak!

That’s really interesting, it pretty much shows exactly what happens in real life. In my case it was just dumb luck, I accidentally designed something that actually worked, lol.
Same with the 2ft bow sprit, just a wild idea at the time on a whim, by angling the foresails, the sails also create tremendous lift to the bow. With my big 135 sq ft spinnaker deployed running downwind in 20mph plus winds the bow is a good 12-18” inches out of the water, and with the planing mod installed only the rear 1/4 of the boat is in the water, ( actually gliding on top of the water. Without the bow sprit there is great risk of pitchpole, (because the TI sits so low in the water, lol I’ve pitchpoled 6 times at high speeds, very painful. Just guessing around 1/4 of the sail force is lift when pushing the boat hard due to the slanted foresails.
FE

Author:  fusioneng [ Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hobie Tandem Offshore - Mr Hobie - We Need a New Kayak!

That’s a brilliant design and I think would really work well on a TI, (believe me I tried a gazzilian different designs), never thought of that one though.
You could probably use any jib typically designed for cats or lasers, ( which never work worth a crap on TI’s because of the floppy mast). And just add a pole at the base, (you would need an extra tension adjustment on the pole). You wouldn’t hinge it in the center though, (about 1/3 from the front would be your hinge point), this way you can control it from the back, (just like a regular jib, (I had two control lines on earlier jib designs, one for each tack, ( poor mans self tacker).
You could get away with a much bigger jib/genoa.
I really like the idea, I actually think it would work very well.
Just my opinion, after first look, would still take a lot of development to get it right, but being able to work directly with common jibs (from other boats), would cut design time way down, way easier than having to invent new stuff and concepts from scratch, lol
FE

Author:  powersjr2 [ Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hobie Tandem Offshore - Mr Hobie - We Need a New Kayak!

Agree,

That jib setup looks impressive (as does the whole ice boat).

Love to see a few more photos of the ice boats bow and control lines.

Big fan of self tacking and self vanging design.....keep it simple.....

Be interested to see how this rig would help the pointing ability of the TI (anything would help!). Impact on rudder control is also of interest.

Jim

Author:  powersjr2 [ Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hobie Tandem Offshore - Mr Hobie - We Need a New Kayak!

yes,

I was thinking the same....lanteen rig with solid spar similar to the sunfish (which I have sailed for many years) main sail but placed forward as a jib...

Like the way the bottom spar of the lanteen rig is attached to the extended bowsprit....wonder if something similar could be designed for the 2019 Hobie Tandem Offshore... ;-)

Jim

Author:  powersjr2 [ Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hobie Tandem Offshore - Mr Hobie - We Need a New Kayak!

Happy New Year to my fellow TI Sailors!

Here is to 2020 and some upgrades to the Hobie TI!

ImageAbove Champagne Island Hereford Inlet Atlantic Ocean by Jim Powers, on Flickr

Author:  netfl0 [ Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hobie Tandem Offshore - Mr Hobie - We Need a New Kayak!

You gotta love how committed Jim is to the Hobie TI. I wonder how many TIs Hobie sells...

I had marked this post to follow out of curiosity. I try to keep convincing myself I am satisfied with my 2019 Outback and Hobie Sail Kit...

Author:  powersjr2 [ Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hobie Tandem Offshore - Mr Hobie - We Need a New Kayak!

Sold my Outback a while back....still have the sail kit...

Love the TI.

Did get a bit of practice on recovering at TI in the surf after a capsize....lucky for me.... no damage or injuries.
https://youtu.be/y-pdwxsolgY

No going back.

Author:  stringy [ Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hobie Tandem Offshore - Mr Hobie - We Need a New Kayak!

Wow Jim, I really enjoyed that video of your surf launch/return. It was like being there. Watching it I got the same nervous feelings I’ve experienced in the rare surf launches I’ve ever done. Your passenger deserves a commendation!
The surf zone is one of the few areas where the TI doesn’t do well. Glad nothing broke and no one was hurt. Keep that kill switch lanyard handy! The Suzuki seemed to start OK after its dunking. It’s a great little motor and perfect for the TI.
Great to see you enjoying the TI on its limits. 8)

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