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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:36 am 
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daft wrote:
Oh, I see elsewhere the OP was considering a large campervan with sort of a toy garage.


Yes I was considering a 20 foot box truck and a complex loading mechanism for a TI. Maybe I should have gone that route- would have given me a lot more freedom in my build. But I went with a campervan.

Live the minicat, looked at the dinghygo and that four piece dinghy from France. Those are all great suggestions. Alas, cats and dinghy don’t provide back support and I need that.

So far the islands seem unique. At this point, though, if I’m considering a 20-25 foot trailer, maybe I should just buy a trailerable fiberglass sailboat?

Anyway, if HOBIE made a two piece island that was two 12 foot long sections that would be perfect.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:57 am 
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daft wrote:
That's why I offered the nest-able glass sailboat as a (pricey!) Hobie companion. Even the inflato catamaran has a rigid boat feel because all the rigging is attached to rigid tramp frame.

If OP is thinking of living in an RV as opposed to occasional short trips, I think I would eliminate the complexity of a trailer and maybe put an AI on the roof (look out for low bridges and parking garages). All I remember in trailering a boat was the wet shorting out signal lights and seizing bearings. And having boat hardware parts stolen. Crossing state lines may lead to being stopped for say, no trailer inspection, then maybe the cop finding contraband that your stoner mechanic left in the van.

Simplicity and internal storage may avoid a lot of problems. Could even start with a modular rigid kayak such as Point 65 Tequila.


Yeah, you are on my wavelength exactly. Yes, I’m living in my class B full time. No “home” to go to other than the van.

And it is a van I built myself. In the back is a rather high bed across the wheel wells (I sleep east west, since it’s a Promaster and a wide body) and under that high bed is a massive drawer with 500lbs drawer slides that can be pulled right out of the back of the van. It’s 60” deep (about 44” wide) and can be pulled out 60”, so open the back doors and slide the whole thing out of the van for easy access to all 60 inches of depth.

It would be easy to fit a minicat in there or an folding HOBIE. That French four piece fiberglass dinghy (reverso?) is just really bulky though and I’m not sure it will fit.

Also I can make space- I could fit a 15 foot mast inside above my cabinets near the ceiling. Almost could fit the main hull of the AI inside the van, but there’s a shelf above the van cab that is not tall enough to fit the AI height.

Price is not much of an issue here. If HOBIE made a point 65 style Island that broke up and fit in the van but cost $15,000 I would be ok with it. (A trailer and TI is pushing $10k, IIRC.)

A cargo trailer behind a generic cargo van (and my van looks totally generic, not like a camper) hopefully wouldn’t get hassled by the road pirates. One concern I have about putting it on the roof is that it’s an excuse to stop me to shake me down.... so inside a cargo trailer means no easy access to thieves, out of the weather, no dealing with salt waters effects on a boat trailer etc.

I had never heard of point 65 before and thanks for that— will research them now.

Alternately, there’s the x-cat, though I can’t find stars yet about how big it is.

The cats are fine possibilities and a minicat might be a done deal— if I can find a way to have back support. I need a sitting position where my back is supported, my data of hanging out over the side of a catamaran or dinghy are in the past.



RedBeardSailing.com carries the reverso, the x-cat and minicat.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:14 am 
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I found a series of events that makes the HOBIE Island clubs less critical. Check out WaterTribe.com

I’d love to work up to the Ultimate Florida Challenge— a 1,200 mile race circumnavigating the state of Florida! (About a 40 mile portage section.)

The have HOBIE Islands as a specifically listed class of boats.

Maybe I buy an island, keep it in Florida and sail there in winter.

—-

The x-cat is too big to go inside. Thought it might go up on the roof but on the sides, but the hulls are too long.

A reverso WILL fit in the van as is, under the bed. There’s just enough space for it.

Still would rather a minicat than a dinghy if I can get a good sitting solution.

Point 65 is neat and I like the idea, if HOBIE made a tandem like that I would buy it at any price. Alas, I’m a sailor, not a kayaker. The islands are neat because they are small sailing boats with a comfortable sitting position.

Along the same lines is expandacraft. They make point 65 style modular amas, basically. They have a trimaran you can buy but I lost interest when I saw it weighed 400 pounds. I need to be able to pull it into a beach without too much trouble and 400 pounds sounds like too much trouble.

So minicat with a seat, or island on a trailer... but part of me is thinking if I’m gonna have a trailer maybe I should just buy a Corsair. Like a Corsair Cruze 970- it has a shower, and is trailerable (but I would leave it on the hard, and give up random lake sailing.)

PS- I took 5 years before I bought my first sailboat, looked at boats from 40 to 20 feet and all types. In the end when I saw the right boat it was pretty obvious and I was very happy to buy it. I didn’t mean to turn this thread into a boat buying thing, just really wanted to know if the island clubs were active or a dead initiative. Initially was thinking if the island as “disposable”. $5k isn’t much and can be sold for $3k-$4k if it doesn’t work out. Just wanted a way to have a good sailboat with me all the time... but that may not be practical h less I want to tow all the time or I go inflatable.

This is a corsair 760, it's a whole other level. It's about %50 longer but probably 10 times the sail area, and probably 10 times the price. I can afford it, or I can buy an older version of this for about $20k. But if I'm gonna trailer....

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:38 am 
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Yeah, thanks to Hobie for letting us compare and contrast here - Hobie equipment is gonna compare well anyway. I have the same back support issue, so I am gonna make my Hobie i12s and Dinghygo my default stationwagon quiver. I sit sideways on the Dinghygo floor leaning against the fat sidewall, and if not too windy hang my legs over the other sidewall easychair style.

I hate those "strap seats" which give poor back support for a large person. My old Hobie came with that so I replaced it with a SeaEagle inflatable seat. My Point65 came "strappy", so I found on Ebay their earlier model rigid seatback which still can plug in. I will still need to add foam traction pads so I don't slide down, but have to lose weight first to avoid submarining the hull. All my craft are self bailing, but small Point65 cargo drains are slow to empty out a wavefull.

Another approach with glorious back support is the Shell 18 Schooner. It looks retro and novel http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-x6oIpYJWCAA/V ... -photo.jpg but has a solid design philosophy http://digitaleditions.walsworthprintgr ... ticle.html . It's clever twin skegs might make beach landing a problem, and in spite of it's rowability I wouldn't think of using it or anything other than AI/TI in the hardcore FL challenge. In it's various blogs and videos there can be harsh weather amongst endless shallows. FL, GA, SC, TX200 have other multi day coast runs that can result in quite grueling survival stories, sometimes in this forum.

P.S. for the record, here is the class B campervan floorplan in which I would carry Hobie i12s and Dinghygo under the rear elevated bed. Nice to be able to shove it in a rear door - I dragged my present craft thru dog poo when landing and want to keep it quarantined even after a washing.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:56 pm 
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daft wrote:
Yeah, thanks to Hobie for letting us compare and contrast here - Hobie equipment is gonna compare well anyway. I have the same back support issue, so I am gonna make my Hobie i12s and Dinghygo my default stationwagon quiver. I sit sideways on the Dinghygo floor leaning against the fat sidewall, and if not too windy hang my legs over the other sidewall easychair style.

Another approach with glorious back support is the Shell 18 Schooner.

I wouldn't think of using it or anything other than AI/TI in the hardcore FL challenge. In it's various blogs and videos there can be harsh weather amongst endless shallows. FL, GA, SC, TX200 have other multi day coast runs that can result in quite grueling survival stories, sometimes in this forum.


Every time you post you mention a boat is never heard of before. I love it. There’s so many small boats.

Yes the Travato layout is great— if I had not DIY my van that’s what I would have bought. If you look at the DIY vans, though, a lot of them do the bed crosswise in the back above the wheel wells which gives even more space than the travato (because the bathroom is taking up half.) then the toilet is just in a drawer somewhere and the shower is between the back doors, outside.

I’d rather island clubs be active there be a HOBIE island class like there is for the cats and there be nationwide hundreds of events from cruises to races to participate in. Maybe sailing at this size is a lot less common popular than it is with larger boats (which is a shame as the larger boats are more expensive.)

I don’t understand why there isn’t an island one design class with national championships.

I’m not a hardcore racer or a hard core expedition type like the water tribe, but working up to the Everglades challenge seems like a fun project, and an excuse to get in better shape and something to do in retirement.



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:30 am 
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The answer is stunningly simple. Having the availability to pedal provides two scenarios.

1. Any Island crew with serious cycling legs has the ability to blow away those relying on wind alone. All other classes ban human propulsion. (Pedalling directly upwind anyone?)

2. If Miragedrives are excluded from competition, many Island users would decline to race, considering such a ban akin to tying one hand behind the back, ie artificial "crippling" of performance

Fortunately, there IS a type of event perfently suitable for Islands.. the long distance races, where everything is legal except motors.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:57 am 
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tonystott wrote:
Fortunately, there IS a type of event perfently suitable for Islands.. the long distance races, where everything is legal except motors.


Yes it seems the water tribe type "races" are the key "market" for island type boats.

One thing I've been discovering this year is how much things have changed in the past decade since I sold my "big boat".

I just saw stats that indicate in 2018 there will be a total of 5,000 new production sailboats sold in the USA. Total. That's all sizes of sail boats.

http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/sailboat ... windrider/

Not sure how accurate that is, but that's one manufacturers opinion.

Meanwhile on the power boat side:
https://www.nmma.org/press/article/21009

The market is growing and they expect 250,000 boats to be sold this year.

So that's 50 power boats for every hobie island sold!

A lot of those power boats are fishing boats and deckboats, pontoons and lake boats that are towed behind trucks by dudes who played high school football and want a weekend boat for the lake.... these are not sailors, and I think the population of sailors in the USA is in sharp decline.

Boating is becoming about power boats.

That explains the changes I've seen and probably why these really fantastic boats (the island series) are not getting the traction I Was expecting. Why the "island clubs" are not vibrant like I was expecting.

That's why hobie is chasing the fishing industry-- I bet-- because that's where the market is. I expect we won't be seeing new designs of beach cats or trimarans from them for awhile.

Anyway, apparently its different in europe and they have enough industry to support companies that make 4 different models of inflatable catamaran-- in one company. Which is kind of impressive.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:16 am 
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I think there is certainly a decline in sailboat manufacturing but much less of a decline in people sailing. I have both a TI and a fiberglass sailboat and in all the years I have had FG sailboats, I have only known two people who have purchased new boats. FG boats just last too long and if a manufacture isnt producing something that you cant fairly easily find used, folks buy used and save a huge amount of $$. You can buy a used FG sailboat, put a new outboard and sails on it and its almost as good as new at a fraction of the price.

And if you are manufacturing new that is different from the past, its usually about faster and that always comes with tradeoffs that are not acceptable to a lot of folks but seems thats how you sell new. The stuff that meets the needs of most people has already been produced and is still out there in good shape and cheap.

I am into both kayaking and sailing and the TI really is a great choice for me. If mine were stolen or something like that. I would have to purchase another. I really enjoy what it does. With the TI, to some extent you have no choice but to buy new.. I have only purchased used sailboats and only new Hobie adventures.

Im not a racer, think it brings out the asshole in people too much (maybe just my experience ??) and if there were adventure races, I probably would not participate. But those long distant events do sounds appealing to me and it would be about 90% just being there and doing an adventure with friends.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:08 am 
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Of all the "sailboats" sold in the U.S. these days, I would wager that the Hobie Island series is #1 in sales. (And I doubt they were included in the manufacturer-industry report regarding total figures for new sailboat sales in 2018 - the Island isn't considered a "sailboat" by most industry standards.)

Sailing is not the sport here that it is elsewhere Wish it was, but that's just the reality. On a per capita basis, I suspect the U.S. is among the smaller markets for sailboats among the world's developed nations.

Having said all this, my experience locally is that the Hobie Islands are hands down the best sellers. Our local club sees maybe 5 or 6 new sailboats bought each year, and all but maybe one of those will be Hobie Islands, and with no D-PN number, they don't race in our regular club mixed fleet regattas. They're just fun and as more members with regular sailboats have seen mine once or twice, they end up buying one for themselves just for fun, family use, fishing, etc. Over time, some end up sailing their Island more than they do their other "sailboats."


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