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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:56 pm 
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Location: Gulf Shores, Alabama
HobieTI wrote:
Dislikes
- still trying to figure out a ‘downline’ system that will keep the motor down in coastal waters, but allow for kick up if it strikes bottom. I think I am going to go with straight line (no bungee) to hold it down tight. The bottom where I sail is mud and sand so I should be able to release the line before much damage is done.
- error messages when you need the motor most. This is a BIG disadvantage of Torqeedo compared to a gas motor. In coastal waters, if you need the motor on, you need it on now, and the stupid error messages on the Torqeedo can be very frustrating.
- it is permanently mounted. Removing it is a hassle. Most of the time I don’t need a motor. The gas motor would be easier to remove.

Summary: For my purposes I would give the torqeedo a “C+” It is OK, but the items listed in my dislikes section make it a bit of a pain at the worst possible times. The gas motor would solve some of those issues, but add different pain (mounting, gas, maintenance, etc). I would not consider any option that gets mounted in the mirage drive.

Torqeedo has addressed some of your dislikes with their new model 1103AC. I can completely remove the motor from the TI in under a minute. There is one line to raise / lower the motor. Another line you pull when you need to go in reverse, it locks the motor in place so it won't kick up.

When the weather clears up around here I will be testing my Torqeedo 1103AC on my TI ... hopefully this weekend.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:31 am 
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Concerning error messages with the Torqeedo 403, this is something that they fixed. I had my 403 serviced by Torqeedo (for free) and never received another error message from it again after many years more use. If you're getting error messages, contact Torqeedo even if it's out of warranty. You should never receive an error message unless there is a valid reason, such as the prop being fouled or the motor is tilted up.

Anyone looking for a motor for the TI needs to review CaptnChaos recent post on mounting a Torqeedo 1103AC to a TI. The newer 1103AC has many advantages over the Torqeedo 403. It has a more secure and much better designed mount, it's rated at 3HP rather than 1HP giving it the power of a gasoline outboard, and it's quieter than the 403 with a new direct drive rather than using gears. This design is years advanced from the 403 and resolves most of the issues with the earlier motors.

In my opinion, this would be one of the best motors for the TI. Now that CaptnChaos has actually mounted one to the TI, others can follow his design.

That said, I've been using my 403 for over five years now and I'm still very happy with it. I've had many chances to sell it and buy an 1103AC, but I can't justify the cost because the 403 works superbly for what I want it to do. Eventually, I'll move up to the 1103AC but not until I need a new battery.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:50 pm 
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I also have a bixpy J-2 for my TI. I really like it. It’s super easy to use. It may be less powerful compared to Torqeedo or gas outboard but it gets the job done. It’s very well engineered and simple to set up and use. It just drops in a mirage port and the battery fits perfectly under the seat. Also the battery can be used to another accessory. At about $1200, the bixpy has been a great auxiliary motor option for me


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:20 am 
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Thanks for sharing your experience! I will do the same if I get a portable motor.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:39 pm 
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I am also looking for a portable auxiliary engine.
Gas powered is a no-go for my favourite crew member (aka my wife) : too smelly and noisy.
So electric it shall be.
Hobie Evolve 2 is too expensive.... so are Torqueedo's ultra-light !
So 2 ways to go :
- Bixpy J2 : light but still expensive (IMO),
- a 12V sea capable trolling motor (Minn Kota or other brand).
Any advice ?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:48 am 
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Semper Fi wrote:
I am also looking for a portable auxiliary engine.
Gas powered is a no-go for my favourite crew member (aka my wife) : too smelly and noisy.
So electric it shall be.
Hobie Evolve 2 is too expensive.... so are Torqueedo's ultra-light !
So 2 ways to go :
- Bixpy J2 : light but still expensive (IMO),
- a 12V sea capable trolling motor (Minn Kota or other brand).
Any advice ?

Bixby's aren't inexpensive, they cost $1,200 for an underpowered motor and an underpowered 378 Wh battery. Add a TI mount and another battery for decent range and you're up to $1,947. The Bixby TI mount goes in the MirageDrive hole which doesn't permit tilting up, so you'd better include another prop or three (and you may even need a replacement motor if you hit something). Now you're in the price range of a Torqeedo. The Bixpy's very strange wrist-mounted remote control is not in the same league as Torqeedo's, and the Torqeedo has tilt-up which I personally consider essential for any prop-driven motor. This also eliminates the Hobie Evolve which is quite simply a flawed design. Trust me when I tell you tilt-up is required for most bodies of water. You should not ever rigid mount a prop motor beneath any boat used for any shallow waters. The motor's life span may be very short and at $1200-$2,000, that's not something you want to replace often. If I'm going to spend that much money on a motor it's without question going to be mounted properly and well-protected against damage. If you get a Bixby, find a safer way to mount it. Do not use their MirageDrive mount unless you can afford to replace it often. Such damage will not be covered by their warranty.

Trolling motors are designed for trolling, not for primary propulsion. The TI is large and heavy, it requires a motor that can propel it properly. The minimum would be 1HP and that's the absolute minimum. You'll see considerably slower speeds and not enough propulsion for dangerous conditions. Trolling motors are not designed for constant propulsion for hours on end as are electric outboards. There may be reliability issues. Nor are they designed for maximum prolonged propulsive efficiency. You'll still need expensive lithium batteries for any decent range. The cost of a suitable trolling motor and the batteries will approach the cost of an electric outboard yet you'll have compromised performance. Trolling motors are an absolute last resort for powering a TI. Mounting one to a TI will be difficult and you'd be largely on your own. I did some early testing of trolling motors on the TI and the results were so disappointing to me that I decide not to publish them as I felt they weren't even worth considering.

You're going to be in the ~$2,000 price range if you want a proper electric motor with decent power and decent range, even with the Bixby. If this is not acceptable and price is the primary factor, then go with the Suzuki 2.5 HP outboard. At around $900, it's a steal compared to electric motors. Yes, it's very noisy and you need to deal with gasoline on board, but the exhaust is not too bad and the power is excellent. Range is only limited by how much fuel you can carry. You can wear earplugs if the noise gets to you, that's what I used to do. If price is the primary factor, this is your best choice.

If you definitely want an electric motor and you want the best price, then a lot of people have been turning toward the Newport Vessels NK180 kayak motor. This is an unabashed Chinese knockoff of a Torqeedo 403 A. However, reviews on it are good and it purportedly has more power than the 403 A. It is also direct drive which should make it even quieter than the gear-driven 403 series. It currently costs $999 but it doesn't come with a battery. You still would need to buy one on your own. Newport Vessels sells one for $939 which would bring the price up to $1,938, about the same price as the 403A, but you do get the extra power. Also, unlike Torqeedo, you can select your own battery which might save you more money if you choose a lower-cost one. This might save you another $300 or so. It lacks some of the refinement and features of the Torqeedo such as GPS, but it remains a viable choice.

To mount an NK180 to the TI would require a Torqeedo A-series style TI mount adapter. I just designed one for the 1103 AC which should work perfectly for the NK180 as well. I will soon provide everything you need to replicate this mount down to the last detail so you wouldn't need to worry about anything there.

The bottom line is that a viable electric motor option for the TI is going to be expensive. There is really no way around that. You can save a few hundred dollars over the price of a Torqeedo but you give up the refinements and maybe some of the quality, reliability, service, and longevity. I'm not sure that's worth a few hundred in the long run, but it nonetheless remains a viable choice.

In my opinion, and I've likely tested more motors, both gas and electric, on the TI than anyone, the only viable low-cost alternative is the Suzuki 2.5 HP outboard. Despite the noise and all its other disadvantages compare to electrics, it's still the very best economical alternative to an electric motor for the TI and it works well. It's also one of the most powerful TI motors if power is a primary factor (and it should be). It's considerably more powerful than any electric motor other than the Torqeedo 1103 AC.

I'm currently testing the 1103 AC 3HP electric outboard. I'm still running the tests but from the data and experience I have with it so far, I can already state unequivocally that it is, by far, the best motor choice for the TI. Yes, it's expensive, but nothing else is currently in its class. This is the ultimate motor for the TI. Expect a full report on it in this forum soon.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:26 am 
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@Pro10is

Thank you very much for your long reply.
So I guess my best choice would probably be : wait and save money and get a Torqeedo (which by the way has a local distributor unlike other brands - I live in an isolated territory in the middle of the south Pacific ocean !)... or try to convince my wife that a Suzuki DF 2.5 is a good alternative (despite noise and smell) to her pedaling frantically !!!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:56 am 
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Semper Fi wrote:
@Pro10is

Thank you very much for your long reply.
So I guess my best choice would probably be : wait and save money and get a Torqeedo (which by the way has a local distributor unlike other brands - I live in an isolated territory in the middle of the south Pacific ocean !)... or try to convince my wife that a Suzuki DF 2.5 is a good alternative (despite noise and smell) to her pedaling frantically !!!

The Suzuki 2.5 HP outboard doesn't really smell. Sure, it outputs exhaust, but it's a clean-burning 4-stroke motor and doesn't have the smelly awful exhaust that you may associate with older 2-strokes where both the oil and gas are combusted. Also, newer regulations don't permit as much exhaust pollution. The Suzuki burns quite clean. Additionally, since the exhaust is directed underwater, you hardly notice it. There is some exhaust and if your wife is very sensitive to it, she may not like it, but it's nowhere near as bad as older 2-stroke outboards.

Compared to an electric, it's noisy for sure, there's no denying that, and it's relatively big and bulky compared to the electrics, and the propulsion controls are nowhere near as good or convenient, and there's no actual reverse gear (you need to spin the motor around) and you have to deal with gasoline on a flammable plastic boat. But at less than half the price of electrics with more than twice the power of most (except the 1103), it's still a very serious contender for powering a TI. If I couldn't afford an electric motor and I had to live only with the Suzuki, I could deal with it and wouldn't be too put out.

Electric motors are a luxury option. Gas motors still get the job done and are much, much better than no motor. Once you power the TI, you'll never go back.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:11 pm 
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Thanks for the answer.
One thing though : when I sail solo, I use the front seat. Even if it is wetter, it gives a better weight balance, hence the electric option.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:59 pm 
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Semper Fi wrote:
Thanks for the answer.
One thing though : when I sail solo, I use the front seat. Even if it is wetter, it gives a better weight balance, hence the electric option.

I fully understand and the excellent and versatile Torqeedo remote control is one of the many reasons I ended up with the electric option myself. It was much more difficult to control the Suzuki and not practicle from the front seat. I don't plan to ever use my Suzuki again and have put it up for sale.

I hope you get the motor you want soon. When you do, please let me know if you have any installation or operational questions. I'm always glad to help.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:38 pm 
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Hi,

So I went to the local Torqueedo resaler this morning and the good news is that the price here is cheaper (- 20%) than announced on the official Torqueedo website (Europe), at least for the Travel 1103 (which they have in stock). It is still expensive but affordable. I have asked for a quotation for the Ultra Light 403ac and 1103 (available on order only), the 1103 being from my point of view the exact engine I am looking for.
Total weight is announced at 15.5 kg... I am wondering what is the weight of the engine alone.

I would be glad to know how to mount as I suspect that it might be to heavy to put behind the rudder.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:56 pm 
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Semper Fi wrote:
I am wondering what is the weight of the engine alone.


1103AC specs from the Torqeedo website:

Total weight in kg: 15.3
Motor weight without battery in kg: 9.3
Weight of integrated battery in kg: 6.0

Peter

_________________
2016 Hobie Oasis with Evolve v2 rudder mount, Sidekick ama kit, Mirage sail kit, Garmin echoMAP CHIRP 42dv, bilge pump
2007 Hobie Outfitter x 2 with Mirage sail kits, large rudder blades


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:55 am 
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Semper Fi wrote:
Hi,

So I went to the local Torqueedo resaler this morning and the good news is that the price here is cheaper (- 20%) than announced on the official Torqueedo website (Europe), at least for the Travel 1103 (which they have in stock). It is still expensive but affordable. I have asked for a quotation for the Ultra Light 403ac and 1103 (available on order only), the 1103 being from my point of view the exact engine I am looking for.
Total weight is announced at 15.5 kg... I am wondering what is the weight of the engine alone.

I would be glad to know how to mount as I suspect that it might be to heavy to put behind the rudder.

Don't worry at all about this, the 1103 AC Ultralight is not mounted behind the TI rudder, it's side-mounted like a Suzuki outboard. The Travel 1103, a different model which looks like a conventional outboard, can also be side-mounted. I have easily replicable and proven TI mount designs for both. I will provide you with complete build details. You don't need to worry a thing about that, provided you have some minor DIY skills. The side-mount works superbly on the TI, considerably better than the old 403-style rear mount system which is now all but obsolete.

I recently purchased the 1103 AC, designed a replicable mount for it, and just finished thoroughly testing it on the TI. It works incredibly well. I will be posting full details about this very soon which will include detailed instructions to build the mount.

Here's some info that many don't know. Torqeedo requires its dealers to post only the MSRP online. This is a common requirement industry-wide. However, a dealer can mark down the price if they wish. So, before you buy a motor, call around and ask for their best price and negotiate. You may be surprised.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:31 pm 
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Thanks.

I'd be glad to see pictures of your side mounts.

Regarding calling retailers, it is gonna be hard. I live in Tahiti and there is only one (unless you may have some to recommend in the US that will be OK with shipping abroad).


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:30 pm 
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I installed a Railblaza motor mount with reinforcements to hold the Torqeedo 1103 Traveler on a friends TI. We were going for a clean, easy to remove install. Even though at the time we purchased the motor mount, the listed motors on the Railblaza site, included Torqeedo, this is not true when it comes to the 1103. Railblaza mounts are not strong enough to hold the torque of the 1103 alone. So we used opposing turn buckles attached to the hull in order to prevent the mount from twisting under load. Every through bolt is into a large backing plate made of 3/8” thick Starboard. This is not a cheap install, there are several DIY builds online for that but we had the parts and were able to complete this install as hoped, it looks and works great! The Torqeedo 1103 really is a fantastic motor and has no trouble pushing the Hobie TI around.
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