Turtle/hulli in shallow water

Hello, all! I'm a new TI owner and fairly new to sailing as well. I've scoured these forums and have learned a ton, so thanks to all of you for sharing your wisdom here for newbies like myself .

I know that the TI is not prone to flipping, but one question I have that I haven't found an answer to is, what happens to the mast if you turtle/hulli a TI/AI in shallow water? The lake I typically sail in is only 10-12 feet at its deepest. Will the mast break/snap as it hits the bottom? Or will the boat just be propped into the air with the mast propped against the bottom of the lake?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Likely (depending on how violent the capsize) the boat will sit with the mast on the bottom. The masts are pretty tough. Wind and wave conditions will play a role. Get the boat downwind from the mast tip asap. Then work to right it.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Used to sail a 16 at Washoe Lake fairly often...shallow with a mud bottom. Wouldn't turtle due to lake depth, but the wind could quickly drive the mast tip in the mud so do your best to get the top of the tramp facing into the wind both to help unstick it from the mud, or prevent it from getting shoved deeper in. Not sure how a comp tip would react to this...mine were still all alum. and never hurt the mast.

Buried my TI mast in about 18 inches of mud, according to the crap on the sail. I furled it, folded in one ama and righted it no big deal. Bigger problem was getting back in after fighting with the boat for 20 minutes and screwing up a shoulder. Now I have rope stirrups to hook around the crossbar and give me a foothold.
Should not flip in most conditions, in my case the aka clip upgrade doesn't work if it is stowed in the hull. Must install it!

Thanks so much for the replies!

The best advice I can give you is to never allow the TI to flip. Unless you plan to run offshore in heavy waves, this is largely preventable. All the info you need is in this forum.

First, ensure all the TI updates have been installed if you own an older model. The aka update should prevent them from separating. You can also install safety cables/ropes to further guard against this.

Next, install safety lines to prevent an ama collapse in the event of an aka shear bolt breakage. Or, alternatively, replace the plastic shear bolts with stainless steel bolts and accept the possibility of damage to the infrastructure if it collides with something. If the amas don't ever collapse, it's very hard, but not impossible, for the TI to overturn.

Finally, never sail the TI in winds in excess of around 20 knots. If you're caught on the water in high winds, completely furl the sails immediately and use an installed gas or electric motor to get safely back to shore.

If you do all of this, it's highly unlikely that your TI will ever overturn.

I've sailed my TI in 20+ knot winds. When I was new at this I foolishly left the sail wide open. As others have said, the TI is somewhat self-limiting, because the mast flexes and dumps the wind before it capsizes. I'm lucky I didn't break anything. Now if I happen to be out in heavy winds, I furl the sail and sail with just enough open.

You can sail a TI in winds of 20-25 knots or more depending upon your skill level, but that wasn't my point. In winds above 20 knots, it's possible to capsize the TI even with the amas fully extended, especially with tramps. I've come very close to overturning mine in such conditions and others have capsized.

The TI is a fair-weather boat. It takes considerable skill, strength, and reflexes to sail it safely in high winds. If one wanted to avoid the possibility of a capsize altogether, then my suggestion would be not to sail the TI in winds exceeding 20 knots. I no longer do. At least for me, the thrill is not worth the danger. Others may feel differently, and that's fine with the proper skill and fitness levels, but beginners should not attempt it.

I have found the TI to be very stable and hard to capsize, even in strong winds.

Agree that if this is a major concern, then sail your TI in under 20 knots of wind.

That said, the TI can be sailed with experienced sailors in winds above 20 knots with the roller reefing mast.

I have capsized the TI in ocean surf / shoaling conditions twice....once the Aka bar pulled out and the Alma spun around on top of the main hull before capsizing.... not fun.

Second time a large wave swept the TI sideways and the Aka brace popped off the post (pin did not break) followed by a capsize.

You can find YouTube post of both failures on my YouTube videos...not pretty....but I share my failures so others can learn... https://youtu.be/y-pdwxsolgY and https://youtu.be/hEr6BgZpA1A

Both cases the mast hit the shallow bottom (10-12 feet) in breaking waves.... not fun.... both cases I had to swim in with the TI on the side till I could get shallow enough to stand (and with help) right the TI.

Once the Alams unexpectantly fold in you can capsize quickly!

I have now installed emergency ropes on both Almas that I can use to assist with righting the TI.

I recommend in all cases first folding in the Almas prior to attempting to right the TI.

I have never capsized the TI when both Almas are properly out.....only when one of the Almas unexpectedly folding in....

Again - the TI is very hard to capsize....I enjoy sailing the TI in rough windy conditions...with full confidence.

Stay safe!

_________________
Jim
Hobie TI 2022 - Offshore rig - Outboard - having fun!
Hobie TI 2021 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold