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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:07 pm 
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Hello everybody,

A little background to the question stated:
At first I wanted a Revolution 13.
After doing some research I decided the Adventure Island was a nice jack of all trades so I wanted one of those. Almost bought one second hand but then I had a car accident which meant buying a new car so no money. Having been regretting that one ever since.
The above brings me to: The AI isn't being made anymore and I can buy an as good as new Tandem Island with trampolines, spinnaker and trailer (which I can't use because I don't have a tow bar) for an ok price (8250,- euro).

I know this question has in part been answered before but not specifically so...

--How good a kayak is the TI when there's only me aboard?--
I want to sail but I also want to kayak and I don't have the money for both a TI and a Revo 13.
Waiting for a second hand AI is an option but who knows when one of those will pop up.

Transport will be a thing but I don't think it would be that much worse than an AI.
It sails better (or dryer at least) if read.

Any advice will very much be appreciated.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:36 pm
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Location: The Netherlands
I can’t tell you how it sails with only one person on board because i sail an AI. The price for an as good as new ti doesnt sounds to bad, a new ti without options cost more than 9000 euro.
Btw NO, i wil not sell my ai,sorry
Peter


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:16 am 
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Posts: 656
ChrisWMan wrote:
Hello everybody,

A little background to the question stated:
At first I wanted a Revolution 13.
After doing some research I decided the Adventure Island was a nice jack of all trades so I wanted one of those. Almost bought one second hand but then I had a car accident which meant buying a new car so no money. Having been regretting that one ever since.
The above brings me to: The AI isn't being made anymore and I can buy an as good as new Tandem Island with trampolines, spinnaker and trailer (which I can't use because I don't have a tow bar) for an ok price (8250,- euro).

I know this question has in part been answered before but not specifically so...

--How good a kayak is the TI when there's only me aboard?--
I want to sail but I also want to kayak and I don't have the money for both a TI and a Revo 13.
Waiting for a second hand AI is an option but who knows when one of those will pop up.

Transport will be a thing but I don't think it would be that much worse than an AI.
It sails better (or dryer at least) if read.

Any advice will very much be appreciated.

I can answer your questions.

You asked, "How good a kayak is the TI when there's only me aboard?". I think you may have meant how good a sailboat is the TI with one person aboard, or perhaps you want to know both. So, just in case I'll answer both and throw in a third as a bonus.

The TI makes an excellent kayak with either one or two people on board. If you remove the amas, you can use it as an ordinary kayak. It's heavier and longer than most kayaks, but that gives it a bit more stability and excellent trackability, although it won't be as maneuverable as a smaller one. I use my TI as a kayak a lot on days when the wind is insufficient to sail. I don't even bother removing the amas. They give super stability in rough weather or waves even when not using the sail. If you need to maneuver in close quarters, it's very easy to simply fold the amas in. I often use the TI with just myself aboard and I really appreciate the extra room and the option to take a passenger. If you plan primarily to peddle it without using a sail, then the AI would probably be a bit easier to peddle having a bit less drag, but the TI is fine for that too with either one or two people.

The TI makes an excellent sailboat with one or two people on board. You can easily sail the TI with just one person. The only significant reason to get an AI is if you needed a smaller and lighter boat, otherwise, the TI is better. This is probably why, of the two, Hobie decided to keep the TI. I'm sure it outsells the AI being the more practical choice. Again, it's always great having the extra seat and room.

The TI also makes an excellent motorboat with one or two people on board. I use it all the time as such because there are many days with insufficient or no wind and I like to travel much further than I wish to peddle. I've used both electric and gas motors. Both work well. You can motor over 30 miles a day with the TI.

Transport is a potential issue though. The TI is relatively big and heavy. You may be able to muscle an AI onto a cartop or into a truck, but the TI, in my opinion, really requires a small boat trailer. It's too long and heavy to practically muscle around unless you're a weightlifter. You'll have a far better experience and much less hassle with a trailer. Easy in and easy out. Virtually any car is capable of pulling a TI and the small trailer it requires is not that expensive. I highly recommend trailering it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:22 am 
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pro10is, thank you for your very complete answer.
Primarily it was about using the TI as a 1P kayak but more information is always appreciated.
Transport is now the only issue I'm split on. The AI would be better in that regard but since these aren't made anymore I'm not sure if I want to risk waiting for a second hand one.
Probably have to make a choice next weekend so we'll see.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:41 am 
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ChrisWMan wrote:
pro10is, thank you for your very complete answer.
Primarily it was about using the TI as a 1P kayak but more information is always appreciated.
Transport is now the only issue I'm split on. The AI would be better in that regard but since these aren't made anymore I'm not sure if I want to risk waiting for a second hand one.
Probably have to make a choice next weekend so we'll see.

I've been an avid kayaker for years but both the TI and AI are so much better and far more enjoyable than ordinary kayaks because of the multiple ways to power them and their superb stability. Don't think in terms of ordinary kayaking with these boats, they're much more useful and enjoyable, so expand your expectations well beyond ordinary kayaking.

Concerning transportation, a TI on a trailer would be much easier to transport and use than an AI with no trailer.

I've been boating for 37 years and I've found that how often any boat is used and how much you enjoy it is directly related to how much hassle it is to use it. The less hassle the better. I call it the hassle factor.

I used to always try to find the least expensive way to do things. For years I hauled a kayak on top of my car. I devised the best way to get it on and off the roof and then onto a set of wheels to get it to the water. While it was doable, it was a hassle and after a while, I used the boat less and less.

When I purchased the Hobie, I too had to decide between an AI or a TI. I was very tempted to just get the AI (even though I preferred the TI) and car-top it, but I decided that I had enough of that and the AI was too long and heavy for that anyway. So instead, I got the TI and a trailer. After years of retrospect, that was definitely the best possible decision. It was the better boat and I use it much more now because there's very little hassle with the trailer and I can get on and off of the water easily and enjoyably. And when I get home, I can simply leave it on the trailer ready to instantly use again rather than muscling it off and back onto the car every time. Soo much better.

My advice to anyone is to reduce the hassle factor as much as possible for maximum boating enjoyment.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:12 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:19 am
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Location: Northern VA
I enjoy using my TI as a kayak as single or double with one ama attached with the trampoline and hakka installed. Makes a great stable casting platform, cooler hauler, cast net platform, picnic area, etc...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:24 am 
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pro10is wrote:
ChrisWMan wrote:
pro10is, thank you for your very complete answer.
Primarily it was about using the TI as a 1P kayak but more information is always appreciated.
Transport is now the only issue I'm split on. The AI would be better in that regard but since these aren't made anymore I'm not sure if I want to risk waiting for a second hand one.
Probably have to make a choice next weekend so we'll see.

I've been an avid kayaker for years but both the TI and AI are so much better and far more enjoyable than ordinary kayaks because of the multiple ways to power them and their superb stability. Don't think in terms of ordinary kayaking with these boats, they're much more useful and enjoyable, so expand your expectations well beyond ordinary kayaking.

Concerning transportation, a TI on a trailer would be much easier to transport and use than an AI with no trailer.

I've been boating for 37 years and I've found that how often any boat is used and how much you enjoy it is directly related to how much hassle it is to use it. The less hassle the better. I call it the hassle factor.

I used to always try to find the least expensive way to do things. For years I hauled a kayak on top of my car. I devised the best way to get it on and off the roof and then onto a set of wheels to get it to the water. While it was doable, it was a hassle and after a while, I used the boat less and less.

When I purchased the Hobie, I too had to decide between an AI or a TI. I was very tempted to just get the AI (even though I preferred the TI) and car-top it, but I decided that I had enough of that and the AI was too long and heavy for that anyway. So instead, I got the TI and a trailer. After years of retrospect, that was definitely the best possible decision. It was the better boat and I use it much more now because there's very little hassle with the trailer and I can get on and off of the water easily and enjoyably. And when I get home, I can simply leave it on the trailer ready to instantly use again rather than muscling it off and back onto the car every time. Soo much better.

My advice to anyone is to reduce the hassle factor as much as possible for maximum boating enjoyment.


Both very true. I've been thinking about alternatives and the only "good" one is a Revolution 13 with sailkit and side-kick since I don't have a place to store the trailer even if I had a towbar. Easier to store, easier to transport, a better kayak but not as well suited for sailing farther from shore and a lot less space.

At the moment I'm looking into the rhino-rack sideloaderto cartop tht TI.
For now I think my main hurdle is the fact that it's quite a lot of money so I have to offset that against possible enjoyment :).


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:07 am 
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ChrisWMan wrote:
Both very true. I've been thinking about alternatives and the only "good" one is a Revolution 13 with sailkit and side-kick since I don't have a place to store the trailer even if I had a towbar. Easier to store, easier to transport, a better kayak but not as well suited for sailing farther from shore and a lot less space.

At the moment I'm looking into the rhino-rack sideloaderto cartop tht TI.
For now I think my main hurdle is the fact that it's quite a lot of money so I have to offset that against possible enjoyment :).

The Rhino-Rack Side Loader is not going to work with a TI. It has a weight limit of 132 lbs. Even the $722 Rhino-Rack Nautic Kayak Lifter can only handle 176 lbs. The TI's fully rigged weight is 240 lbs empty and it could easily weigh 300 lbs or more fully loaded. You're going to need something significantly better or always have at least two people to try to muscle it on top of a car. This will probably also require removing/reinstalling the amas each time. You're also going to need to carefully check the maximum weight limit of your car top roof rack. Many can't support the weight of a TI. It's a big, heavy, and long boat to put on top of a typical car. You'll need to be certain it's doable on your specific vehicle with the number of people you'll have available to help. Even with the AI, you'll need to ensure it's doable and not too much of a hassle. I used to own a simple, single-person, lightweight kayak and that alone was a hassle to get on and off of a cartop by myself, never mind a TI/AI.

If you go with the Revolution 13, I wouldn't bother with the sail kit. A converted kayak will never make an acceptable sailboat. Even the TI/AI which were properly designed to be sailboats are nowhere near as good for sailing as a true sailboat. The TI/AI are nicely day sailable close to shore in the proper conditions, but they're not great sailboats. Unless they're equipped with a gas or electric motor I wouldn't recommend taking either far from shore or your loading point. I speak from years of experience.

You can easily and quickly sail a TI/AI many, many miles from shore or your loading point and then the winds could die down. This happens a lot in many areas. Unlike an excellent sailboat, neither have good sailability in low winds, you really need a headsail for that. You can get a spinnaker kit for the TI, but that only improves downwind sailing which is not enough. If you want a jib, you need to design and install one yourself, no easy task. So, if you're miles from where you started and the winds die down, you'll need to peddle back. You'd better be in decent shape physically to do that. Before I equipped my TI with a motor, I often needed to peddle back 10-20 miles or more. That gets old fast.

In bad weather or heavy winds around 25 knots or more, the TI/AI should be sailed only by experienced sailors. Both can be easily overwhelmed and it takes experience and expertise to sail them safely in these conditions. And never rely on the peddles to get you safely back in rough weather. They are easily overpowered by heavy winds and waves, again I speak from experience. You could find yourself in a bad situation you didn't expect and are not prepared for. I've had bad storms appear from nowhere when I was far from shore and a couple of times I ended up in a survival situation in my TI before I was properly experienced and prepared for such events. If you sail the TI/AI far from shore, having a gas or electric motor is your best and safest way back when the winds are too light or too heavy. Personally, I would not sail a TI/AI without a motor if I wanted to sail it very far.

If you primarily want a kayak, get the Revolution. If you want both a kayak and wish to sail, your best bet is the TI/AI. If you need to cartop, then get the AI, the TI is too big, long, and heavy to effectively cartop alone in my opinion even though it's possible if you're strong enough and have the right rig. Even the AI is going to be tough to cartop alone. If you need to travel far, then equip any of these options with a gas or electric motor.

Always carefully consider the hassle and safety factors if you want a safe and enjoyable boating experience.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:13 am 
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I read on the forum that the weight of the main hull of a TI (without seat and drives) is somewhere around 40kg, is that not correct?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:07 pm 
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ChrisWMan wrote:
I read on the forum that the weight of the main hull of a TI (without seat and drives) is somewhere around 40kg, is that not correct?


I don't think so. The specs at https://www.hobie.com/kayaks/mirage-tandem-island/ show fitted hull weight at 59kg. That's the bare hull with only permanently attached items (eg. no seats, drives, mast, sail, etc.). Fully fitted (empty) weight is 109kg.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:28 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania - Philly Area
I have owned, car topped and sailed the Rev 13 (Hobie sail kit), Adventure Island and currently own the Tandem Island.

I sail my TI single handed 95% of the time.

My recommendation:
- Go for the Tandem Island and a trailer and enjoy the fun sailing!

_________________
Jim
Hobie TI 2022 - Offshore rig - Outboard - having fun!
Hobie TI 2021 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:16 am 
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ChrisWMan wrote:
I read on the forum that the weight of the main hull of a TI (without seat and drives) is somewhere around 40kg, is that not correct?

This is directly from Hobie's TI web page. See Fitted Hull Weight.

Image


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 12:19 am 
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At age 74 I find that trailing the TI is the easiest option. I have the Rhino-Rack Nautic Kayak Lifter and can confirm that it easily handles the central hull of the TI but I prefer the convenience of having the boat ready assembled and ready to launch on the trailer. The lifter works well but requires a breakdown and reassembly for each outing, then a cart to move from the vehicle to the water. It can be a chore if the terrain is challenging.


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 6:25 am 
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Location: Chalfont Pa
The stripped main hull is probably around 40KG. The bigger issue with cartopping is total capacity of the rack. My ladder rack is rated for 500# but with the whole boat up there it flexes a bit. Trailer is more money but worth getting.
The TI as a kayak is faster and more stable than most single yaks. But it will not turn well so don't plan to do any rapids or get into small creeks.

The tandem is worth the additional money, you will want to share the fun with a friend. And you will have some very happy friends with one of these.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:11 pm 
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The TI is great fun solo. The only disadvantage is the weight. In my mind it is really pushing the limits of a kayak and is more accurately thought of as a boat. Can be hard to deal with when transporting, and what's not often discussed is that the plstic hull is in danger of being dented by its own weight.
I saw many videos of the TI being carried on cartop racks, but as soon as I did this the hull got dented at both crossbars, and these were big foam pads not hard cross bars. Hobie does mention this in the manual. Also there are no great off the shelf trailer options IMO, and I spent way too much time and on my custom trailer setup which ended up with PVC bunks. Now I use a boat ramp whenever I can, occasionally will use the cart but it's not fun. Personally I would try to find a single AI if you are going solo just to save weight- I had to get the tandem so the wife wouldn't feel left out although she hardly ever comes along haha!


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