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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 8:13 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania - Philly Area
Came across this YouTube video comparing the Torqeedo 1103C travel to the ePropulsion Spirit 1.0 Plus.

Some useful information. The pricing is out of date but good overall information.

https://youtu.be/cMer4S6phFY

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Hobie TI 2022 - Offshore rig - Outboard - having fun!
Hobie TI 2021 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 6:48 am 
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powersjr2 wrote:
Came across this YouTube video comparing the Torqeedo 1103C travel to the ePropulsion Spirit 1.0 Plus.

Some useful information. The pricing is out of date but good overall information.

https://youtu.be/cMer4S6phFY

I'm glad someone has posted hands-on info on ePropulsion. This video points out much of what I discussed about it in this thread. I like the ePropulsion motors and consider them the only real competitor to Torqeedo for TI applications.

The only major caveat is the lack of a GPS-enhanced throttle control giving real-time range calculations as found on the Torqeedo. Personally, I require that feature because I depend on it so much to maximize my trips and get the most range possible while staying within safe energy usage parameters. With it, I'm easily able to push the range to the absolute max with zero range anxiety.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:12 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania - Philly Area
Innovation and new electric motor options continue to pop up.

New offering from Newport, the NK300 3 HP electric motor option looks to go head to head vs. Torqeedo 1103AC and other electric motors that are now on the market.

The specs look solid.

The price (~$2K with 1200 Wh battery) is attractive.... about $1K under Torqeedo 1103AC (~$3K with 950 Wh battery).

Fully expect additional offerings in this rapidly growing electric motor market in 2023.

https://newportvessels.com/collections/ ... ayak-motor

ImageNewport NK300 by Jim Powers, on Flickr

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Jim
Hobie TI 2022 - Offshore rig - Outboard - having fun!
Hobie TI 2021 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:44 pm 
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Would you recommend this over the 1103? I have had my new TI about only about 2 months (got to use it 1 time before winter) so it will be awhile before I am ready for any motor but I would like to go electric at some point.

BTW I love your videos and they have already convinced me to launch from an inlet rather from a beach- I saw the one where you and your daughter got the TI 90 degrees on a beach landing :)

Thanks,
Fletch


powersjr2 wrote:
Innovation and new electric motor options continue to pop up.

New offering from Newport, the NK300 3 HP electric motor option looks to go head to head vs. Torqeedo 1103AC and other electric motors that are now on the market.

The specs look solid.

The price (~$2K with 1200 Wh battery) is attractive.... about $1K under Torqeedo 1103AC (~$3K with 950 Wh battery).

Fully expect additional offerings in this rapidly growing electric motor market in 2023.

https://newportvessels.com/collections/ ... ayak-motor

ImageNewport NK300 by Jim Powers, on Flickr

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:12 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania - Philly Area
I have not used either the NK300 nor the 1103AC. I am currently running with the Suzuki 2.5 HP short shaft gas outboard. Meets my current needs and longer runs. When my Suzuki retires....I will be looking at the best bang for the buck electric motor.... Funny....I am driving electric, my home is electric....but I have not switched over TI yet.

Thanks for the comments on the TI videos..... yes those surf launch and landings can be exciting. I am thinking of pulling togethers a blooper playlist for all my surf failures (many). Yes - launching off a ramp on the bay side is a bit wiser.

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Jim
Hobie TI 2022 - Offshore rig - Outboard - having fun!
Hobie TI 2021 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:16 am 
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powersjr2 wrote:
Innovation and new electric motor options continue to pop up.

New offering from Newport, the NK300 3 HP electric motor option looks to go head to head vs. Torqeedo 1103AC and other electric motors that are now on the market.

The specs look solid.

The price (~$2K with 1200 Wh battery) is attractive.... about $1K under Torqeedo 1103AC (~$3K with 950 Wh battery).

Fully expect additional offerings in this rapidly growing electric motor market in 2023.

Jim Powers


Jim, thank you for this new information. I've now updated my review to include the Newport NK300.


Last edited by pro10is on Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:58 am 
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fletchb wrote:
Would you recommend this (NK300) over the 1103?...

The Newport NK300 has yet to be released (March 2023) so no one can currently recommend it based on user experience. However, based on speculation only, here's what I see:

NK300 vs 1103AC

Pros:
- Cost: At $1299 for the motor and around $800 for a suitable battery, it can be had for ~$2100 which is ~$800 less than the 1103AC which is currently selling for $2,899. This is a considerable savings.

- Battery Choice: Unlike the 1103AC, you can select from a much wider choice of compatible batteries. This gives you far better control of the performance and cost of the battery you choose.

Cons:
- No GPS Enabled Real-time Range Calculator: This is a critical feature on the 1103AC that allows the user to always know the remaining range in time and/or distance. It's a superb feature that goes a long way to relieving range anxiety. I personally rely on this feature a lot.

- Unknown Build Quality: Unlike the proven 1103AC which is designed and manufactured in Germany of high-quality components, the NK300 is designed and built in China of yet unknown quality components. It may well prove to be as good or even better than the 1103AC, but this is yet unknown, so it's a risk. The NK150 has decent user feedback, so that is a good sign.

- Unknown Dealer Service: This is vital for any marine motor. Torqeedo stands firmly behind its products. I've had excellent response and service from Torqeedo (although others have not had as much luck with them). Service and parts availability for the NK300 is yet unknown, but the user feedback on the NK150 has been good so far.

- Unknown Performance: The motor has yet to be released. It may be wise at this point to let others test it and give critical feedback before investing over $2,000 for one.

My gut feeling, based only on speculation, is that this motor will be a viable and less expensive alternative to the 1103AC. That said, I would wait until it's been fully tested and reviewed. I will reach out to Newport to see if they will provide an NK300 motor that I can test, but that is always difficult and often very expensive as was the case for the 1103AC. However, if I can get ahold of one, I will put it through the same tests as the 1103AC and compare them directly with no bias.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:51 am 
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Update: There are a couple of deals going on right now at the Newport NK300 website. If you preorder the NK300 (April 2023 delivery), you can get 10% off. That would lower the price from $1299.00 to $1169.10.

They are also offering their $849 36v 30Ah Lithium battery for $696.18 (saving $152.82).

There is no information about how long these deals will last, but if you're interested in the NK300, you can save some money with this preorder. Details are on their website. Just be aware that you will be one of the first to use and test this new motor which could be a risk, although it does include a 2-year warranty.

The price of the 1103AC remains constant at $2,899 almost everywhere, although a few dealers offer it for $2699. Apparently, Torqeedo must suggest an MSRP for their online dealers. However, if you contact a dealer, they can offer you a lower price. Currently, the best online prices I could find is $2699-$2899 but some sites such as FishUSA offer a 5% discount via Rakuten.

INNOVATIVE SPORTSMAN offers the 1103AC with a free Rock Guard worth $225.

Eco Fishing Shop claims to offer the lowest prices on the 1103AC with no sales tax.

Also, be sure to check with Defender Marine, they usually offer competitive prices on Torqeedo prices if you contact them. They used to list those prices right on their website, but Torqeedo must have scolded them because you now have to contact them to get anything other than MSRP.

I have no affiliation with Torqeedo, Newport Vessels, or any of the dealers listed here. If you're interested in any of these motors, be sure to do a thorough search and contact the dealers directly to find the best prices. You usually can do better than MSRP.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:43 am 
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Location: Charleston, SC
I recently completed the motor mount project (thanks to those who created/modified these designs over the years) and installed a new ePropulsion Spirit 1.0 3HP short shaft electric motor. I chose this over the Torqeedo for the additional energy capacity in the battery and run time. To get this I had to forgo the better information (speed etc) and proven service with the Torqueedo. I believe a gas motor is more practical but I just don’t like the noise.

The maiden voyage for the new setup was yesterday. The motor performed as advertised — quiet and responsive. I estimate the top speed to be 5-6kts. I did find it was another thing to manage and will take a little time for me to get used to, in particular tilting the motor out of the water when not in use. The depth of the prop when underway appears to be perfect, so I would not recommend the extra short or long shaft versions.

Let me know if you have any questions about the ePropulsion and I will endeavor to get you an answer.

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Chris
2021 TI
Charleston, SC area


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:52 pm 
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Sounds good.

Please take and post some pictures of your set up.

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Hobie TI 2022 - Offshore rig - Outboard - having fun!
Hobie TI 2021 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:01 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Everyone complains about the noise of outboards and as a result are flocking to the way more expensive and shorter range electrics, I’m ok with that as my home is net zero and pretty much totally solar powered.

Don’t come back at me about pollution from my little outboard running a gallon of gas every weekend, the pollution from creating just one lithium battery and rare earth magnets is way more that fifteen years of pollution from my little outboard, and charging those batteries from the grid, (high percentage coal powered) creates way more pollution. Your fight should be with the cruise ship companies wasting 10,000 gallons of fuel oil, ( maybe per hour), or the airlines, 8 gallons of fuel per mile, or the 10% of older or non compliant cars that create 90% of the pollution in this country. Or the 80% of the homes in the us with little or no insulation, or energy saving appliances or energy saving measures taken at all. ( I’m only guessing at the cruise ship and airline fuel usage for example only to make a point).

When we had our TI’s, (had to sell because of health conditions, bummer), I don’t think anyone actually caught on to what I was actually doing and why with my fancy hybrid twin honda outboards with the super high pitch propellors, ( had to hand make them because nobody sells anything like that).
I looked very deeply in to electrics and battery/ solar tech and calculated that any electric propulsion out there didn’t have either the range or speeds I need for offshore use in the keys, ( we were avid scuba divers, mostly in the keys, where we had a second house).

Another big problem is everyone only ever talks about outboards and their max horsepower and speed, and all are judged by this. Unfortunately pretty much all outboards are very loud at max speed and rpm, and I didn’t want anything to do with that noise.
Since our main use was diving the coral reefs off key west, any of which are 5-15 miles off shore we needed a means to get out there. Since we were diving underwater, visibility is critical, and any wind over 10mph kills underwater visability, so we only ever bothered even going out when the winds were 3 to 7 mph, ( which happens to be around 70% of the days down there).
Yes you can own your own speedboat, ( we did for a while, ( 24ft searay), or take diving charters to go out to dive, but that amounts to around $1000 dollars a day for 4 people, and if you go out weekly, (I would go out every day if I could), all becomes pretty costly.
Given the vastness of the keys my design criteria was, (we needed):

1: a safe boat that we were confident would be strong enough if any instant storms came up, (a common thing down there)

2: if it takes more than an hour to go the ten miles or so out to the reef it’s not worth going.

3: had to work equally well no matter what direction the wind is coming from, as well as more typically nearly no wind at all.

4: had to be fuel efficient, ( we had many $300 dollar per weekend fuel costs with our Searay). Our goal was between 60-100 mpg, most outings our fuel costs were around a buck in fuel, ( measured).

5: we wanted 100 miles per day range, and 300 miles range with extra fuel on board, if we ever did any multi day stuff, ( never did any multi day stuff though, ( I like sleeping in a real bed, lol). That comes out to 10 hrs at 10mph, ( our normal cruising speed, with the wing sails of course).

6: boat had to have the ability to point around 10 degrees off the wind, (upwind), and when downwind 10 degrees off the rear and still maintain my desired cruising speeds. ( the entire reason I developed my wing sail stuff).

7: had to carry 4 people, ( normal for us when diving), plus tanks and gear, (usually towed behind on an inflatable dingy). If we had more people, they would hang on to the dingy or tow behind dingy in a string on either rigid or inflatable kayaks, with our TI as tow vehicle or mother ship. At times we had as many as 8 people, ( but never went way out under those conditions obviously). (800 lbs on board capacity). Or tow other TI’s ,( which we did a lot).

8: had to be quiet so we could talk in a normal voice, ( should have been #1). The Honda with it’s underwater exhaust at just above idle is very very quiet, ( thus the reason for the ultra high pitch props). No sails up at minimum throttle with 2 people on board in calm conditions, the boat went around 7-8 mph, ( because of the super high pitch props). Watch any of my dozens of videos displaying that, ( all with live mike).

The points I’m trying to make are yes electrics are great, but battery and solar tech are nowhere close to where they would be useful to me and the circumstances I would need to be viable at least for me, ( maybe 15-20 years out the situation may change).
So I came up with a viable solution, ( that nobody seems to understand), and nobody has taken the baton to further develop the concepts that I presented over the years, and documented very well on this forum.
Unfortunately for health reasons I had to give it all up.
But I haven’t seen any furtherance of any of my concepts, things like hydrofoils, wing sails, super efficient motors, planing hull mods, etc.
I’m very disappointed that the tri-power concepts that were invented by hobie and their tandem island line of boats hasn’t been exploited further. Using the sails, and pedal drives, along with auxiliary propulsion all together at the same time, ( as I did) to make one of the greatest inventions I know of, ( the TI) even better.
There is no other boat on the planet either for sale or on anyones drawing boards that can do what a TI can do, ( I proved all that out and documented everything). It only takes a little ingenuity elbow grease and a little engineering knowledge to turn these great boats into something very special, ( thanks hobie).

Don’t wait for Hobie to develop this boat into something special, It’s already pretty much perfect as an artists pallet to build on and expand to whatever you can dream up, (I’ve proven that in spades).

Pretty much all the mods I did didn’t cost much at all, ( I designed and built most everything in my garage for next to nothing). Anybody else can do the same, sure some ideas may fail, but thats how we all learn, (by doing). To be honest, my greatest fun was trying out and testing all the crazy inventions, trust me I had many failures, but how else do you learn.

I’m especially disappointed that to the best of my knowledge nobody has pursued the wing sail concepts that I developed and proved out way back in 2012 or so, sure I had to spend a couple years reading up on wing sails and how they work, and how to design and build them, but in the end it was all worth it, as it changed everything for me, and made all my dreams come true.
The best $200 dollars or so, ( in materials for the wing sails), and a few weekends in the garage that I ever spent, (I always designed and built all my own sails, why buy something you can easily make yourself, ( with your wifes sewing machine that she never uses, lol)
That’s all
Btw, I love all your posts.
FE


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:40 am 
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Bob,
It's wonderful to see that you still occasionally visit us here on the Hobie Islands forum.

A lot has changed with TI electric motor options since you sold your last TI. The available power of the motors has increased from 1HP to 3HP (ICE propulsive power equivalent) and the batteries have a lot more capacity. This now puts them in direct comparison to gasoline outboards for most TI/AI owners. Additionally, more competitors are entering the market each year which will hopefully continue to drive the costs down. You can now get a 3HP Torqeedo 1103AC clone for around $1,000 less.

I don't think many here are buying or considering an electric motor because of pollution issues with gas outboards, but rather because they have significant advantages with ultra-quiet operation, ease of operation, mounting options, weight distribution, instant starting, instant reverse operation, no need to store gasoline on board, no exhaust to breathe, better torque curve, and very little maintenance. That said, I don't think electric motors will completely replace gasoline outboards anytime soon, in fact, I still recommend them as the best low-cost option. But electrics are now a very viable option for many TI owners with significant advantages if they're willing to pay the considerably higher price.

Unfortunately, few of here have your engineering skills, enthusiasm, time, and abilities to design and construct high-performance hand-made high-pitch props, hydrofoils, wing sails, super efficient motors, planning hull mods, dual outboards, etc. Most of here are not skilled marine engine/boat designers or coral reefs divers, but rather ordinary boaters out to have a nice day with our TIs. You remain truly one of a kind.

This is why you are missed. Your unique posts were highly enlighting to those who wanted to know about and push the very limits of the TI's capabilities. I for one hope you will continue to stick around here and contribute your considerable skills and many years of intricate TI expertise to help us get the best out of our Hobie Islands. Thank you for all you have done and hopefully will continue to do for the TI/AI community.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:59 am 
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A really well thought out and comprehensive answer.

Thanks for that.

I still enjoy your posts, and several others, (Jim), very much, keeping the dream alive.

FE


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