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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:52 pm
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Location: Central PA, United States
Hi all,

Newbie here... A thoughtful friend has left her AI with us while she's on the road for the next year or two. I have set up wall rack storage, but am working on the transport question. We have a 2013 Sienna minivan, which has the standard roof rails (but no crossrails yet). Been doing a bunch of reading and here's my proposed setup:

We already have a Thule rack with 54" bars. I am looking at buying Thule 450 Crossroad railing foot adapters to let us use the Thule bars on top of the Toyota rails. For loading the AI I would use a Rhino Rack Universal Side Loader (https://www.amazon.com/Rhino-Rack-Unive ... ide+loader) to assist with loading. Our friend has also loaned us her Yakima rack saddles which should attach to the Thule bars.

Does the Rhino loader seem like a good solution? The minivan is fairly tall, and the AI is not light. I'm a 6'2" guy, but not Hulk Hogan. Trying to find an economical solution that would allow me to load solo.

(As a side note, I may set up a trailer to pull behind our motorhome with the AI & bikes, but would rather have a simpler rooftop solution for local excursions.)

Thanks in advance for any advice,

Steve

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:50 pm 
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Location: Hornsby, NSW, Australia
Steverino wrote:
Hi all,

Newbie here... A thoughtful friend has left her AI with us while she's on the road for the next year or two. I have set up wall rack storage, but am working on the transport question. We have a 2013 Sienna minivan, which has the standard roof rails (but no crossrails yet). Been doing a bunch of reading and here's my proposed setup:

We already have a Thule rack with 54" bars. I am looking at buying Thule 450 Crossroad railing foot adapters to let us use the Thule bars on top of the Toyota rails. For loading the AI I would use a Rhino Rack Universal Side Loader (https://www.amazon.com/Rhino-Rack-Unive ... ide+loader) to assist with loading. Our friend has also loaned us her Yakima rack saddles which should attach to the Thule bars.

Does the Rhino loader seem like a good solution? The minivan is fairly tall, and the AI is not light. I'm a 6'2" guy, but not Hulk Hogan. Trying to find an economical solution that would allow me to load solo.

(As a side note, I may set up a trailer to pull behind our motorhome with the AI & bikes, but would rather have a simpler rooftop solution for local excursions.)

Thanks in advance for any advice,

Steve


Hi Steve

We have a TI and have done quite a lot of work to enable car topping it. No room to store a trailer at home.

Image

The home made roof rack is screwed to Thule cross bars.

The back wheels on the kayak help to pivot its nose up onto the side bar, then we push it up across the car then swing it into position.
A rope prevents it from rolling away after getting the nose up.

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As you can see my 164cm tall wife can lift it onto our Subaru Outback by herself this way.
I usually do it though with her help or on my own if I am sailing alone.

In this sequence we forgot to strap the mast to the boat before lifting it.

Some people use a scupper cart in the absence of our built in wheels but they make launching a retrieving it at the boat ramp much easier.

See https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=59743 about these.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:29 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:52 pm
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Location: Central PA, United States
Thanks for the quick & detailed reply! That is an impressive setup - very nicely done. Gives me hope and some good food for thought as I try to figure out the best setup for our particular situation. (Course being middle of winter with 1 deg. F. (-17 C) this morning kind of puts a damper on physical experimentation... :shock: )

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:49 am 
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Location: Chalfont Pa
Very neat system on the suby. I am working on a modified ladder rack system for my pickup, uses an extension ladder with one part bolted to the rack and the other strapped to the boat. In theory I can lower the rear support and let the boat slide back with a pulley or winch. Right now the ladder has PVC pipe bolted on to support the hull, project is on hold for a few weeks due to a hernia procedure last week. But I am optimistic, this might be a neat system if it all balances out.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 11:46 pm
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Location: Hornsby, NSW, Australia
Steverino wrote:
(Course being middle of winter with 1 deg. F. (-17 C) this morning kind of puts a damper on physical experimentation... :shock: )



Was +40.6 C (105.08 F) When I was writing my post yesterday. Expecting +38C (100.4F) today so not doing much outside either.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:53 am 
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I'd urge you to consider a harbor freight 4x8 folding trailer. I use one for my '17 AI and it is fantastic. EZ to launch and retrieve all by myself. Check YouTube videos


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:39 am 
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Location: Central PA, United States
douglasflather wrote:
I'd urge you to consider a harbor freight 4x8 folding trailer. I use one for my '17 AI and it is fantastic. EZ to launch and retrieve all by myself. Check YouTube videos


Actually I do have a HF 4x8 trailer - we've used it for years for yard stuff. Have been considering it for possible kayak use as well, but had hoped the rooftop would be less hassle. Will check out some videos online.

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:52 am 
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Location: Port Philip Bay, Melbourne, Australia
Hi Steve,

I'm a newbie also and as such am sorting out the stuff out that I was blissfully unaware of. We have a low maximum load on the car rails (45ks - the bars are a 100ks) so the choices have been narrowed down to a T-Bar for us as it will spread some of the roof weight and get us under the max (keeping us others safe, as well as being legal) :) Having finished the house renovations to get the AI all cosy and secure, the T-Bar is going on tomorrow and if not a sail then at least a test to see how it will go.

In the past I used a heave and jerk a 2014 Revolution 13 onto the roof and found it just a bit too much (I'm well past being as young as I use to be). While the AI is about 14ks heavier, plonking the nose in the cradle and then lifting from the back will be a much better and a controlled exercise. As seen with Paranoid's side load which was a great job from both of you. I'd do the camera too if I could get away with it :)

All things going well I'll give you a fresh of the press, newbies opinion of the Rhino T-Bar operationally tomorrow.

Just on a side note - I was pulled over about 16ys ago in Gippsland Vic with a canadian canoe straddling the for and rear of our 6x4. While it was well tied down and with the rear overhang flagged, the policemen gave me a warning and informed me that only a boat trailer could have a 'boat' hanging out the back more than a metre. I don't know if it's ridgy didge nor if it's relevant to NSW, but someone's bound to know and clarify.

Edit: Just come across this post which deals with the T-bar https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=58155

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:43 pm 
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Location: Port Philip Bay, Melbourne, Australia
The T-Bar does a reasonable job in the roof top loading. Once everything is properly set up, which in my case included knocking up some padding for the roof racks to improve the AI sliding on them. Then it just came down to technique which is still being developed :) A bow rope was also handy. Verdict in our case - very workable and will address all our requirements. As easy as a trailer, not by a long shot, but then trailers do have their own 'baggage' so to speak.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:00 pm 
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I would buy the Thule mounting feet and not rely at all on the Sienna's roof rack. The car racks are designed for a load of 200 lbs. and with a long kayak there is a leveraged loading on the rack mount point. For the small additional cost I would have cross bars that are independent. You can also buy a tower version that is taller and provides more space between the bottom of the kayak and the roof of the car and it makes it easier to feed straps or use a cable lock.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:44 am 
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Location: Massachusetts and New Hampshire - Squam Lake
Not sure if you have considered inside the sienna. I am able to fit an 18' Tandem island with ease. I remove the middle seats and then install my inexpensive T bar into the trailer hitch that sticks out rearward around 4 feet. I only have to lift the hull around 18" to load. Travels nice down the highway, although a bit drafty with the rear door open !

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:43 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
We have both setups, (ie... car top, and a harbor freight trailer) for our TI's. We have a tow behind camper that uses the hitch when we travel so we can't use our trailer.
We travel a lot so we have a couple hundred thousand miles with hobies on the roof and camper in tow.
Whem local in Florida we much prefer not to car top, and way prefer towing the fully rigged ti on our trailer.

Our TI's are kind of complex (by design), because they are hardened for offshore and massively souped up for performance with 3 masts, massive sailsets, and twin outboards. Since underwater visability goes to zero whenever it gets windy and wavy we tend to only ever go out in very low winds and very flat water, so our boats are designed around that, (basically I refuse to go 2-3mph), thus the mods.
When fully rigged the full boat is simply too heavy for me to try to move around. So in order to car top we have to strip the hull down to nothing, with everything removed, (ie... AMA's, seats, mirage drives, sails, masts, etc). When completely stripped the hull weighs around 100lbs, the hull itself is actually no more difficult to get on the roof than our old canoes, or our old Oasis was. I always do all that by myself, and actually that part doesn't take long, (getting the hull on or off the roof).
My chief complaints about car topping are.

When used in mostly salt water, your going to wreck your car (salt).

Once the hull is down from the roof it takes us a good hour to completely set the boat up again, (mounting the AMA's, tramps, motors, sails and rigging, etc), NOT FUN... we typically only do that once, when we arrive, then remove everything and strip it all back down again a week or two later when we leave, not fun. We typically beach the boat for the duration, or anchor just offshore.
It's definately not fun, but the only other alternative is leave our only family boat at home, (sucks).
Also rolling the fully loaded boat around on a scupper cart is too much for me.

In contrast when local, our boat lives fully rigged on the trailer in our garage, takes all of 5 minutes to hook up and tow to any launch, then 15 minutes from pulling up to the water and pulling away, (minimal lifting, (we have a boat winch on the trailer). When we get home, we rinse boat in the drive, then pull it in the garage, ready for next time.
Just stuff to think about...
FE


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Location: Chalfont Pa
I am in the design phase on my ladder loader concept. I put PC pipe on one half and bolted the other to the front crossbar of a ladder rack. The rear crossbar is removable, so it rotates down to the tailgate. In the first test it worked, but there was way too much friction to pull the boat up quickly. I found a couple if the issues and have to do some grinding and fabrication. But it looks like it might work if we get a travel trailer and want to bring the boat.
If some one can tell me how to add photos I can insert some. Luckily there is not one of me falling on my ass when the pulley system failed!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:41 pm 
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Paranoid, I really like tour system. I'm curious about your rack system for the TI. You have PVC attached to the racks for the TI?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:10 pm 
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Location: Hornsby, NSW, Australia
TommyO wrote:
Paranoid, I really like tour system. I'm curious about your rack system for the TI. You have PVC attached to the racks for the TI?


Hi TommyO

The rack is made of aluminium tubing inside hollow pool noodles.
Each is covered in a tube of cloth to reduce friction when the boat is slid across them. My wife is handy with a sewing machine.

The outside bars are 35mm X 3mm round tube. They take the biggest load due to the side loading operation.
The 4 inner tubes have 25mm square tubing and are spaced to match (as far as possible) the grooves in the TI hull.

There are also some aluminium cross beams for strength. All bolted together with stainless nuts/bolts.

The covers aren't as frictionless as I would prefer, especially if they get caked in dried salt. Some sort of rollers on the outside bars may have been better.

I always rinse the racks and car in fresh water after every days sailing if I can to avoid this problem and potential rust.

The whole thing is fairly light (maybe 10kgs) and can be easily carried by one person but requires two to get it on or off the car without damage.


The TI seems happy to sit on the rack for long periods without apparent hull distortion.


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