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Making the C-Tug Cart TI friendly.
http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=46391		 Page 5 of 7
Author:  nap [ Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Making the C-Tug Cart TI friendly.
Here's my cart. Tested with my Nucanoe this morning. I think I'll stay with this one until Hobie came up with something better.

https://goo.gl/photos/hU3fHq9uHeyM6GaHA
Author:  Lead Belly [ Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Making the C-Tug Cart TI friendly.
stringy wrote:
So the Sandtrakz show real promise, but I'll reserve judgement for a proper test on dry loose sand ...when I can find some!


Very promising! Four wheel drivers are always saying wide wheels aren't the answer to driving in sand; lowering air pressure of the tires is by the far the best approach. It's "fore and aft" length that is most important, not width.

Now sand dunes haven't been a feature of the Canberra landscape since the Silurian Period, but I did purchase a set of Sandtrackz a couple of weeks back because we go fairly regularly to Huskisson on the New South Wales south coast. To me, being able to leave your fully rigged kayak on its cart and walk it in and out of the sea across the beach sand barrier is the Holy Grail (it's Easter) of kayak carting.

No other reviews of Sandtrackz yet that I can see on the Web. Stringy's reviews are brilliant.
Author:  stringy [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Making the C-Tug Cart TI friendly.
Thanks for that LB and thanks for the heads up re the Sandtrakz wheels. I only discovered them from your earlier post.
Still too wet here to do a proper review in dry sand.
I note that the C-Tug Sandtrakz recommendation is for up to 85kg kayaks so the TI may be unsuitable, but I'll certainly be trying it out.

Nap,
I like your solution for the heavier TI. Talking with the Railblaza boss he hinted at a future factory solution where 2 C-Tugs are joined through the footstand hole, (much like what Nohuhu recommended at the start of this thread) for heavier kayaks like the AI and TI.
Author:  tonystott [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Making the C-Tug Cart TI friendly.
That is an incredibly clever design by Railblaza. Makes me wonder if they could build one with a bigger outside diameter (but with the same inside diameter, making those clever angled "vanes" twice (or more) longer. I suspect that would almost double the length of the footprint, thereby vastly reducing drag on your spring balance.

Would wheels (say) 3 inches bigger outside diameter be too awkward Stringy? I suspect that skinny width wheels can be bigger, although I guess they would be too big to fit in the front hatch then.
Author:  nap [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Making the C-Tug Cart TI friendly.
Thank you stringy for sharing that idea about possible use of stand holes. It's currently useless in my current design. I'll check if I can remove that and use the holes for something else. Or maybe I can remove the PVC pipes and just use a rope for joining the two. Maybe the rubber pad and rope are enough to keep it in place. I can join the two cart with a rope through that holes extending the rope to the front so I can hold onto it when dragging the cart. I can also use the rope to easily pull the cart out under the kayak when I reached my launching area. With the current design, I have to waste 8 zip ties for easy transport. I only need the cart when there's no boat ramp so not a lot of zip ties every year. And I have a friend who gives me zip tie for free :). I'm excited they are thinking carts for heavy kayaks like TI.
Author:  stringy [ Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Making the C-Tug Cart TI friendly.
tonystott wrote:
That is an incredibly clever design by Railblaza. Makes me wonder if they could build one with a bigger outside diameter (but with the same inside diameter, making those clever angled "vanes" twice (or more) longer. I suspect that would almost double the length of the footprint, thereby vastly reducing drag on your spring balance.

Would wheels (say) 3 inches bigger outside diameter be too awkward Stringy? I suspect that skinny width wheels can be bigger, although I guess they would be too big to fit in the front hatch then.


I agree Tony. Kudos to Railblaza for developing an airless puncture free sand tyre that looks like it might actually work. (I still haven't had a chance to test it properly though.)
When I was talking with Railblaza's boss he detailed their extensive R&D on the compounds used in the vanes to get the right combination of flex and support.
The Sandtrakz measure 31cm across and fit easily in the front hatch. There would be room for a larger wheel but I guess the issue would be whether longer vanes could be developed with the same flex, support and longevity?

Image
Author:  tonystott [ Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Making the C-Tug Cart TI friendly.
Thanks Stringy... I love innovation!
Author:  stringy [ Tue May 17, 2016 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Making the C-Tug Cart TI friendly.
Recently I was able to do a bit more testing of the Sandtrakz and I am impressed.
The sand was damp but loose and the old Sidewinders proved useless again, building
up a wall of sand that worked like a wheel chock
Image
The wheels mark how far I got before giving up.
Image

I didn't have balloon wheels with me so I tried the the Wheeleez HD for comparison.
I was able to get a bit further up but it was very hard work
Image

Fitting the Sandtrakz I was able to get all the way to the top with much less effort.
Image
Image

The technology actually works well and this wheel does live up to the hype
Image
Clearing away the sand reveals the innovative 'track'.
Image
The testing was done with the TI hull only, which weighs around 62kg. Railblaza recommend up to 80kg so the fully rigged TI may be a bit much. I didn't get to test it this time as we were preparing for a hull only portage of around 700m. I ended up swapping back to the hard wheels as the portage track wasn't as soft as expected. On firmer surfaces the hard wheels do work better and with lots of sharp fern stalks on the recently slashed track I was worried about damage to the Sandtrakz. A balloon wheel would not have coped here.
Image
Image
Proves there is no wheel that will handle all terrains. An advantage of the C-Tug is that it is easy to swap wheels to suit the terrain.
Author:  CR Yaker [ Tue May 17, 2016 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Making the C-Tug Cart TI friendly.
Thanks Stringy,
I look forward to your testing of a fully loaded TI.
Author:  NOHUHU [ Tue May 17, 2016 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Making the C-Tug Cart TI friendly.
OK- couldn't resist!:
Author:  stringy [ Wed May 18, 2016 1:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Making the C-Tug Cart TI friendly.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Great find Nohuhu!
Consider those wheels well and truly tested.
As you said earlier the twin cart option could be the solution for the heavier Islands if the single cart Sandtrakz wheels can't handle the loads. The advantage with the C-Tugs is they dismantle easily for in hull storage.
Author:  Slaughter [ Wed May 18, 2016 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Making the C-Tug Cart TI friendly.
Great bit of R&D work and field testing on the whole cart usage Stringy. I was just going back through this thread to reacquaint myself with how much work you have done on this topic. Amazing. Lucky you are doing this for the love of it and not on an hourly rate. :lol:
Author:  Lead Belly [ Wed May 18, 2016 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Making the C-Tug Cart TI friendly.
Slaughter wrote:
Great bit of R&D work and field testing on the whole cart usage Stringy. I was just going back through this thread to reacquaint myself with how much work you have done on this topic. Amazing. Lucky you are doing this for the love of it and not on an hourly rate. :lol:


Agreed, neatly scientific. Enjoyed the video, but not so sure about the Norse Funeral approach to testing.
Author:  stringy [ Thu May 19, 2016 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Making the C-Tug Cart TI friendly.
Thanks for the positive comments CRYaker, Slaughter and LB. I'm always interested in ideas that make portaging easier.
That 700m portage shown in the pics saved 20km of pedaling/paddling on our recent camping trip. We had planned to sail it but there was no wind for days. What would have been an all day trip took only a few hours, thanks to the cart.
Author:  CR Yaker [ Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Making the C-Tug Cart TI friendly.
Stringy, I want to pull the trigger on one of these Ctug Sandtrakz. Did you get a chance to test on a fully loaded TI?
If so, does it at least work as well or better than the Hobie HD scupper cart (this is my minimal requirement). I don't expect it to work so well with a heavy load, but at least it can be broken down and stored in the Hull. I see it can at least handle a load, safely, up to 300lbs. But of course less effective for heavy loose sand.

If it is as good or better than the HD scupper cart, then can I install the wheelez before coming thru the surf, land, pull out of harms way. Note: I'll be coming in under motor, at 7mph.

Alternative: Can it work as a second cart in combination with a HD scupper cart?


Note: Storing a cart in the vehicle is not an option, unless using as an additional option. As age catches up to me, the other expensive option is a beach dolly. Or a second set of Sandtrakz? Could I use one to get out of harms way, carried on the TI and another from the vehicle to slide underneath/strap on and go??? The cart made here by two Sandtrakz with pvc is not an option. Have to have something on the kayak to get out of harms way.
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