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| rudder revelation http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=11653 |
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| Author: | Aledal [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | rudder revelation |
While we all consider corrective surgery for the Adventure Islands` inadequate rudder system it occurred to me that the fancy"twist and stow" rudder was originally designed for the Hobie "Adventure". NOT the "Adventure Island". The Island came along later- but the twist and stow could only accommodate a slightly larger rudder. Not to mention problems with securing a larger rudder when under way. Just a thought. I have her in my living room and when I look at it -it seems painfully obvious the rudder is too small for this boat. Any thoughts gentlemen? |
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| Author: | Pirate [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Whilst I have read from others here that the rudder has been overpowered by the wind at times, I personally have not experienced much of that at all, so from my exprerience thus far I would not agree with you on that one Aledal....Pirate |
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| Author: | Astro [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
i have had my rudder over powered, but it is an easy fix just furl the sail till you get the control back...and considering the rudder pin weak link not really practical..just more breakages with a bigger rudder |
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| Author: | chrisj [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Pirate wrote: Whilst I have read from others here that the rudder has been overpowered by the wind at times, I personally have not experienced much of that at all, so from my exprerience thus far I would not agree with you on that one Aledal....Pirate
That's interesting Pirate. I have certainly been overpowered by the weather helm in fresh winds. It's not too bad when close reaching, because it comes on gradually and I can often get through it by pedalling hard, but I have on two occasions been on a broad reach in fresh winds when sudden gusts have spun the boat around into the wind, totally overpowering the rudder and too quick for me to get the sail furled. It's a mild nuisance when you are already heading to windward, but downright embarassing when you end up facing in the opposite direction to where you were heading. You seem to have been doing quite a bit of broad reaching in fresh winds, so I am wondering if it is your greater experience as a helmsman or is there some difference in rudder performance? |
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| Author: | Pirate [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I don't know Chris, but I can recall being overpowered with a full round-up from down wind on one occasion only. All yachts can do this of couse but a lot of it is caused by the monohulls shape in the water when subjected to excessive roll. I have taken advice here and do furl a lot but as my video of Mallacoota sailing in strong downwinds last weekend shows I was often downwind sailing under full main. I often push the boat further off the wind when a gust is close which makes it then difficult to round up. I may tighten up the main subconsciously when gusts come through, I will have to check it out on the half hour of video I took, and let you know. Just lastly we must acknowledge all yacht rudders can be overpowered under cerain circumstances and just increasing the size is not necesarily the answer...Pirate |
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| Author: | KayakingBob [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I've found, in real gusty conditions, that if I don't cleat the sheet line but keep it under tension with my arm, that it acts like a shock absorber. When a gust hits, it's pulls stronger on my arm causing it to release more sheet line and dumping some wind. I haven't had a weather helm problem in a long time, so I think the boat must have trained me to reef properly. 
Also, I have found that somewhere between 30-35 mph I can no longer make any headway sailing upwind. Kayaking Bob |
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| Author: | Pirate [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
reconlon wrote: I've found, in real gusty conditions, that if I don't cleat the sheet line but keep it under tension with my arm, that it acts like a shock absorber. When a gust hits, it's pulls stronger on my arm causing it to release more sheet line and dumping some wind.
I haven't had a weather helm problem in a long time, so I think the boat must have trained me to reef properly. Also, I have found that somewhere between 30-35 mph I can no longer make any headway sailing upwind. Kayaking Bob Hi Bob, Proper management of the rig must certainly help... 
By the way thanks for your recent tip on the mirage drive pedal ties that did not go un-noticed. Just did mine this afternoon and just tidies up another small annoyance....Pirate |
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| Author: | chrisj [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks Pirate & Bob, It sounds like, as I suspected, I need more experience balancing the mainsheet and the furling line. |
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| Author: | mmiller [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
reconlon wrote: Also, I have found that somewhere between 30-35 mph I can no longer make any headway sailing upwind.
Kayaking Bob Yeah... that is well beyond the wind speed that this boat is designed for, but pretty amazing how well it does in the higher winds! |
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| Author: | Pirate [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The boats themselves handle the winds well but the lightness of the hull and I presume the tri configeration hinders the hulls progress to windward in the steep chop that the higher winds produce on our lakes system. The video I placed on Youtube last week of our sailing on the Mallacoota Inlet was more waves, less chop which the boat liked a lot better. Great little boat but ohhhhhh soooooooo wetttttttttttttttt in those conditions...Pirate
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| Author: | KayakingBob [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Good point Matt. I would NEVER purposely go out in conditions like that! We were 1/2 mile past (downwind of) a boat launch (takeout) when the winds unexpectedly increased (doubled!). We could sail out and back (quickly!) but even going 2-3 miles out, we could make no headway and had to turn downwind for a very, very fast sail 3 miles further to the next (and last) safe takeout. I only mentioned it, to keep it in mind. If the wind was blowing off shore, it could have gotten interesting. 
The AI feels so invincible, but knowing it's limits is important to me, especially for self rescue. (I do carry a epirb and marine radio, but I hope never to HAVE to use them.) Kayaking Bob |
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| Author: | mmiller [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Safety thinking... just thinking about surviving a big off shore blow... I would, in the case of survival conditions (sudden dangerous off shore winds), think that dropping (jettison) the mast and then the amas would be the best way to get upwind... if you really HAD to. This would greatly reduce windage. The Adventure hull alone pedals upwind pretty well. |
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| Author: | Tom Ray [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
reconlon wrote: Good point Matt. I would NEVER purposely go out in conditions like that!
We were 1/2 mile past (downwind of) a boat launch (takeout) when the winds unexpectedly increased (doubled!). We could sail out and back (quickly!) but even going 2-3 miles out, we could make no headway and had to turn downwind for a very, very fast sail 3 miles further to the next (and last) safe takeout. I only mentioned it, to keep it in mind. If the wind was blowing off shore, it could have gotten interesting. Were you attempting to tack upwind and also pedaling hard at the same time? I was able to sail upwind in very strong winds in a protected creek, and didn't have to use the mirage drive at all. Upwind progress through harbor chop is another thing. I furl the sail and pedal if I really need to get upwind through that stuff. I haven't yet found conditions where I could not sail upwind at all, but definitely had times where it was faster to just furl and pedal. I like Matt's idea of an emergency conversion to Adventure mode. Wouldn't be fun to toss away all that stuff, but stuff can be replaced. |
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| Author: | Aledal [ Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Rudder rev reply |
Thanks all for the input. While Im well aware its easy enough to furl the sail to slow down ...I was thinking you wouldnt have to with a larger rudder and could gain some speed along with some gust protection as well. I also think this boat could use a larger centerboard. Still -I realize the wisdom of knowing the boats limitations. |
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| Author: | mmiller [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Once again... every boat design has limitations and ALL will reach those limits sooner than some sailors would like at times. This is primarily due to the wide variety of conditions people sail in. You have to learn to sail each and every boat within its limits, in your conditions. That said, we do continue to learn about the AI ( sailing in a wide variety of conditions ) and have been making minor changes for better function since it's introduction several years ago. Sorry, but... it will not / can not suit all sailors in all conditions. This is just not a reality. |
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