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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:51 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2987
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
I'm just guessing here, but it sounds more plausible since all 4 bolts were loose, that perhaps the bolts were never tightened fully at the dealer or factory. If it were me I would use blue locktite and make sure all the other bolts (on the rear xbar) are tight. I watch the forums for this kind of stuff and this is the first time I have heard this problem. Especially on a post 2012 boat, from what I am seeing Hobie has that mast reciever assembly pretty dialed in now and I haven't heard of any mechanical failures from normal use (including that little 1/4 stud down at the base of the hull). Of course there are always the extreme guys. I know in my case even with my massive sails (my TI is heavily modded) I have not had a lick of problems with anything and I use the heck out of my boat in pretty much any conditions I'm on my 3rd TI now and I know I have well over 3000 sailing miles on this 2012 hull and beyond a few scratches I have not had a lick of problems (besides a few sheer bolts on the AKA's, and a dozen or so rudder pins, but I think pretty much all those failures were self inflicted.
All my mods are bolt on mods, I have never modded the basic boat itself, whenever I get a new boat I simply transfer my extra crap to the next boat (most if my mod stuff is around 4-5 yrs old now, and looks really old (because it is). Over all I'm pretty darn impressed with Hobies little plastic boat, I just with one of these days they will let me develop a new stronger plastic for them that knocks a third off their weight (self interest here.... trying to save my own back (lol), not likely....).
FE


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:24 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2987
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
oceanmoves:
You have the old style xbar, you can tell because there is not an extra weld at the center back of the xbar. However I wouldn't be too concerned, I think it was mostly 2010 models with the bad weld, Hobie improved their welding process in 2011, and had very few failures since then. The extra weld at the back was just extra insurance (abbundence of caution on Hobies part). On my first 2010 TI when i inspected the boat at the dealer (before taking delivery) I noted to the dealer that the welds were no good (I'm an expert in that stuff) I pointed out the grey cracks at the ends of the weld. They assured me if it failed it would be replaced under warranty, the bar failed a few months later and was promptly replaced with a new one, the second xbar (probably 2011 model year) had a much improved weld and I never had another issue. When I got my 2012 model in july 2012 they had added a third weld in the center back of the xbar brace just to make sure, I assume the change was a running change in production. If you don't have the really obvious white lines at the ends of the welds, I wouldnt worry about it (if bad from the factory it would have failed right away).
PS the thing that breaks those welds is if when stepping the mast, if you shove the mast into the hole (with the delrin bearings) then tilt the mast up, this puts extra stress on that weld (same applies when taking down), It's best to shove the mast base in the little cubby area next to the mast , swing the mast vertical then drop it straight down into the hole (I have bent that tang several times trying to do it the other way (just fyi).
Hope this helps
FE


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:35 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Mt Kuring-Gai, NSW, Australia
many thanks for the info


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:19 am
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Location: Australia
I haven't read each post in this thread but in case no one has mentioned it, the reason this occurs is that the braces that hold the xbar are not tight enough. The tell-tale sign is a loud cracking sound when tacking/turning and the sail swings hard from one side to the other. What happens is that the xbar moves from left to right. You can usually tell if there has been movement on the xbar by looking closely at the sides of the braces. If its shifted you should see marks showing that.

All Islands are supplied with the hex key to tighten these brackets (in the warranty packets). It isn't included for installation - the boats are supplied with xbars installed. They are provided so that users can re-tighten if and when required.

I check every Island I unpack for this. Every now and then one will come out of the packet that should probably be a little tighter. Either way, keeping those brackets tight is basic maintenance, which is precisely why Hobie supply the hex key

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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:35 pm
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Location: Mt Kuring-Gai, NSW, Australia
That's valuable info. My 2012 TI has developed those characteristics; loud cracking on tacking (occasionally)
and I saw the cross bar move very visibly while tacking once.

Question is - how tight should the xbar be tightened ? i.e. is there risk in over tightening it ?


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:19 am
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Location: Australia
I just check to see if I can easily dislodge a bolt with a bit of pressure. If I don't have to put much effort in, I tighten it to the point where I am putting a reasonable amount of pressure on it. I don't go too hard though. Just make sure each screw is nice and firm, but no need to tighten it to ridiculous levels.

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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2778
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Yes, checking the tightness of all the aka bar fittings should be part of your regular maintenance. The plastic hull flexes a lot in use and expands/contracts with temperature changes.

Also pay close attention to the socket screw that attaches the V-Brace to the bottom of the hull. It can work loose.

Back on P2-3 of this thread, how tight the fittings should be is discussed. I asked for some torque specs and this was Matt's reply:
mmiller wrote:
We don't have torque specs on any products. Must be impossible due to the construction materials... flex?

Be sure the "V" brace is ridgid and pressing down on the hull in the center. Check for any possible movement at the base. Check the bolts that pass through the crossbar to attach to the mast cup. Check the cup attachment bolts to the deck and again the crossbar clamps.


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:35 pm
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Location: Mt Kuring-Gai, NSW, Australia
Presumably tighten them CLOCKWISE ?


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:19 am
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Location: Australia
Yep, clockwise. Righty tighty, lefty loosey :-)

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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:35 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Mt Kuring-Gai, NSW, Australia
Just back from 3-4 days camp/sail at Lake Macquarie (great sailing, good weather)

Gave the Xbar a tighten using the key and managed about half a turn on all four nuts before it
got very tight, hence I think it had worked slightly loose so thanks all for input.

Incidentally I noticed a narrow raised bar on the front panel of my xbar (Feb 2012 manufacturer TI)
which looks like a weld from the otherside. Perhaps I do have the through-weld afterall ?

As for the sailing, I think I chatted to about 8 different interested people about the TI and how
good it was...... I think Hobie should be paying me commission :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:23 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2819
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Quote:
As for the sailing, I think I chatted to about 8 different interested people about the TI and how
good it was...... I think Hobie should be paying me commission :wink:

I reckon the enjoyment we get out of answering those queries is part of the money's worth we get from ownership LOL

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker and Hangkai outboard
only cool people follow the (non-magnetic) titanium weight-loss program! lol.)


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:25 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:02 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Copenhagen , Denmark
Today , it happened to me .... Luckily no one got hurt .....
I hope warranty is still valid, my tandem islands is 2010 hull number 144
Want to upload photos , but can figure out how to
Sail safely


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:40 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 12535
Location: Oceanside, California
TheRedBaron wrote:
Want to upload photos , but can figure out how to
Sail safely


FAQ: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=8574

Warranty is 2 years (your boat is 6-7 years old), but contact a dealer and file a claim for any possible help.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:37 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:02 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Copenhagen , Denmark
Thank you Matt,

I Will do so ......

Reeally enjoy my TI and this forum............

Safe sailing


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 Post subject: Re: TI FWD XBAR FAILURE
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:34 am
Posts: 3
Hi, I am Jo from the north of germany ...

... a couple weeks ago I also had the same Problems with my TI XBAR ;(

The Reason for my deaster, was the small broken Screw in the Bottom of my Hobie!
Today, I ordered a new XBAR 8) ... I have to fix also the broken screw. :?

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Germany, Lübeck
Hobie Tandem Island - Model 2012


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