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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Location: High Point, NC
You can't just stick something inside the broken mast tube and expect it to work - if the repair does not match the original characteristics of the mast at the location where it broke, it's going to break again. Perhaps that ends of the new repair if that section is stiffer than the original. The mast has to be able to flex along that same area in the same manner as before. It's not just as simple as making it "strong."

The best repair would be a slightly lower modulus material on the outside of the break. Combining the larger diameter of the repair sleeve with the lower modulus can often provide you with an area that mimics the characteristics of the original. But there's a great deal of room for error in there, too. There's also the problem of having that now larger diameter section fit inside the fail luff.

If you put a stiff piece of thick wall aluminum in there, the mast will most likely fail at either end of the tube section. If you put a piece of plastic tubing in there, the break will be the same place as the original. You've got 100 bad options and maybe two good ones. Best best is to buy a new lower section and be done with it.


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:13 pm 
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You could attempt a repair using techniques outlined above, but instead of leaving the aluminum or pvc piece there, use it as a mandrel to relayer carbon fabric and relaminate. You can probably also find a carbon purveyor who already sleeves carbon. There are a few out there. But, like Tom said...you are probably best off getting a new mast (after finding out what broke your current one).

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 5:45 pm 
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On my first TI back in 2010 after adding 265sq ft of sail area I became concerned that the original CF mast might not be strong enough. So I put a fiberglass pulltrusion up the center of the mast from top to bottom. I was concerned if I stopped partway up this would create an high stress point. I don't recall the exact size I used but I think it was around 1" dia, bacically I took the cap off the top and measured the minimum ID of the carbon mast and bought the correct dia pultrusion. Pultrusions have similar strengths to carbon but are of course much heavier (glass has an SG of I think 2.45 so a pultrusion is very heavy compared to carbon fiber.
I wanted a little extra strength down near the base so I filled a thin wall aluminum tube about 3 ft long with silicone and shoved the pultrusion into it.
The entire mast became stronger and stiffer but not overly stiff. Pultrusions are also very bendy and can take similar loads to carbon fiber but just a lot heavier.
It's a heck of a lot of work and a lot of stress and strain calculations and such to engineer something that actually works (not worth the time and effort IMO), I never bothered with any other masts, turned out the stock mast was strong enough for my needs.
FE


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 8:05 am 
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Location: San Antonio, TX
fusioneng wrote:
CF masts are an incredible engineering feat, however any nick or damage to the surface can create a fatigue point so all carbon masts need to be handled carefully, not sayin this was your problem, I'm just talking in general.
FE


If carbon fiber is so fragile, would it be a good idea to wrap any exposed carbon fiber (below the sail) in tape or something, to help protect it from getting scratched or nicked up?

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:10 pm 
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chadbach wrote:
fusioneng wrote:
CF masts are an incredible engineering feat, however any nick or damage to the surface can create a fatigue point so all carbon masts need to be handled carefully, not sayin this was your problem, I'm just talking in general.
FE


If carbon fiber is so fragile, would it be a good idea to wrap any exposed carbon fiber (below the sail) in tape or something, to help protect it from getting scratched or nicked up?


Chad is worried about this because he was with me on a shake down cruise for the Texas 200 this weekend when my 2014 TI mast broke!

So that makes 3 this weekend it sounds like if I am keeping score correctly?

Rob

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Look at clearwatercomposites.com
They can probably make a stub that will fit exactly.

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Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 7:48 pm 
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Location: San Antonio, TX
Ttexpatriate wrote:
chadbach wrote:
fusioneng wrote:
CF masts are an incredible engineering feat, however any nick or damage to the surface can create a fatigue point so all carbon masts need to be handled carefully, not sayin this was your problem, I'm just talking in general.
FE


If carbon fiber is so fragile, would it be a good idea to wrap any exposed carbon fiber (below the sail) in tape or something, to help protect it from getting scratched or nicked up?


Chad is worried about this because he was with me on a shake down cruise for the Texas 200 this weekend when my 2014 TI mast broke!

So that makes 3 this weekend it sounds like if I am keeping score correctly?

Rob


Yeah, I think we all reefed in a bit after your mast break! Was your dealer able to help you out?

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:54 am 
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Think of carbon fiber mast as an exercise in load distribution. The fibers are very strong in pull strength but lousy in side force, after all it's just thread similar to sewing thread. The way the fiber is woven is what gives the mast it's strength. I'm imagining some of the threads could be 15-20 ft long, and there are likely thousands of threads weaved into the mast in all kinds of orientations. Each thread takes it's fair share of the entire load in a carefully balanced manner.
I think we all know the highest point of stress on these masts (where they are most likely to break).
If I was concerned about my mast breaking (I'm not too concerned) I would go to Home Depot and buy a fiberglass ax handle. Strip the yellow molded pp plastic cover off, what your left with is a white oval fiberglass pultrusion around 3/4x1" x 30" long. These suckers are extremely strong, I'm one of the guys who developed them originally, in the factory while developing the thing we used to place the pultrusions each end on a brick and jump up and down on the middle like a trampoline, for something to do, yea their that strong.

Actually both my mast topper and my bow sprit are made from those same pultrusions, (they were just sitting in my garage for the last 25 yrs (development samples), so I thought I would just use em, (I'm an engineer, not the kind of guy who would ever chop down a tree myself (lol).
If it was me I would take one of those pultrusions cut out a couple cardboard stars (to center the pultrusion inside the mast). I would then drop the pultrusion into the base of the mast. I would then get a couple tubes of GE silicone (the quick dry stuff) and a length of 1/2" dia pp plastic tubing (probably 5-6ft long). Put the tubing to the bottom then start pumping in silicone filling the space around the pultrusion. Thats the poor mans method. A better way might be to use 2 part pourable silicone (available at hobby stores), mix it up and pour it in, (obviously more expensive, silver based silicone is hyper expensive). Two part (2lb) urethane foam may also work just fine if you want to save weight, (also hyper expensive)).
What this does is slightly re-enforce the lower 30" inches of the mast, (where it's most likely to break) with a non rigid flexible piece that prevents the point load at the area just above the delrin bearings, basically making the mast a little little stronger down near the bottom without comprimizing the rest of the mast.
Whatever you do don't fill with epoxy, or use aluminum (not flexible), if you do the mast will simply snap 33" up instead of 15" up from the end (lol).
I've been running up to 260sqft of sail on my TI's for 7 yrs now with no mast breaks, but keep in mind all my stuff is carefully engineered to compensate for all the stresses with stays and strategic re-enforcments.
Also always keep in mind the weakest link in the system is not the mast. That little 1/4" stud in the bottom of your hull is the weak point, if your adding a bunch of massive sails that area needs to be re-enforced. I have an aluminum plate epoxied to the base of my hull to take the excess strain, that the boat was not designed for.
I'm not recommending anyone add that much sail area unless you really enjoy pitchpoling often, it's basically the same hp as strapping a 50hp outboard to your boat, lol yea sails can generate that much power.
PS if your running the Hobie spinnaker, you pretty much need that rear stay.
FE


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 7:04 am 
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Location: Colorado
We used to stiffen / strengthen windsurfing masts used on ice boats by taking the top section of a second mast and inserting it in the bottom section of the mast the sail was rigged on.

I just pulled out the top of a 30% carbon windsurfing mast I have laying around and it looks like it would fit inside the bottom section of the TI mast.

The windsurfing mast top piece is tapered so likely good at stiffening but not inducing a whole lot of point loading where it ends.

I havent tried that at all.. It changes the bend characteristics of the mast a little doing this but its really mostly just the bottom section that becomes stiffer. Top section still has the same flex as before.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 8:26 am 
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Walt:
Lol, great idea, now all the guys with the broken masts just laying around have somthin they can use the still good top section of their old broken mast. Just slip it into the lower half of the new replacement mast and problem solved.
I'm just kinda sayin if I were to snap a mast, I wouldn't trust any repair, I would order a new Mast from Hobie.
With your idea they can slip the old top section into the new mast.
I have no idea if I would try that, I'll find out though if I ever break a mast.
FE


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:45 pm 
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I have positively identified the root cause of my mast breakage.
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=60468&p=288944#p288944
Is your mast breakage also where the rivets contact the mast?


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