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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:56 pm 
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Yakaholic wrote:
Read this entire thread. Interesting! It appears mast gouges or wear caused by rivets could be a problem even if it looks superficial. In my mind any cutting of the mast fibers can't be good so rivet removal and replacement with a fabric tab seems like a good fix.

For anyone worried about the mast after it has this minor damage one solution is to paint some fiberglass resin and even a small piece of fiberglass cloth around the affected area. The resin and hardener are cheap & easily found at an auto parts store. I had an old AI mast with spitting ends where the carbon fiber/fiberglass was separation and this fixed it up better than new. However, instead of using the fiberglass cloth that normally come with the kit I carefully wrapped the affected area with fat fishing line (old school heavy braided line not mono-filament). Once I had the affected area tightly wrapped I painted on the resin and let it harden. This is similar way one fixes re-attaching eyelets to big fishing rods just on a bigger scale.

Anyway, any fiberglass type repair is strong, light, waterproof and very flexible.

Yak--I have not tried it, but that sounds like a great solution to this problem. Thanks!

Keith

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:01 am 
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Hi everyone. New member here. Thank you for having me.

I have only recently become aware of AI and TI's and as is customary for me "I have just got a bee in my bonnet" and understand that my family and my dog's life will be infinitely richer (read poorer) with one or the other in it.

However, as is my modus operandi in these circumstances, I have managed to curtail an impulse buy and took it upon myself to read up on these prior to committing to purchase.

So that has ultimately lead me here and after much thought, I too would appreciate some closure from Hobie regarding the latest (2017) version and wether the points brought up by rlepoid have been addressed.

From someone without an invested interest (as of yet) in these watercraft, from my perspective of having read the other forum users input, it seems as though this could very well be a fatal flaw in what looks like a fairly robust system that could be easily addressed.

I find it ridiculous to refer to a 4 year old boat as being "vintage" and "old", the implication being "what do you expect for such an old boat". Personally, I don't expect the mast on a 4 year old boat to break. I have another boat which is 87 years old, and in constant use. I do refer to that as being old.

To bring this thread to some sort of conclusion, can a Director of Hobie please answer the following questions:

Does Hobie accept that the downhaul cleat rivets wear grooves in the mast, and that these grooves can weaken the mast sufficiently to cause the mast to break?

Does Hobie intend to notify owners to check for wear on the mast, since the loss of propulsion by the sail can be a serious safety issue?

Does Hobie intend to inform owners of approved methods to prevent wear from the rivets?

Does Hobie intend to make a design change to prevent such wear and weakening of the mast?



Obviously I don't have a dog in this fight but I would appreciate to hear what Hobie (and other users) have to say on the above.

Once again, thank you to everyone who has contributed to this particular forum. The information offered here is very helpful.

Regards,

Max


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:11 pm 
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Quote:
To bring this thread to some sort of conclusion, can a Director of Hobie please answer the following questions:

Does Hobie accept that the downhaul cleat rivets wear grooves in the mast, and that these grooves can weaken the mast sufficiently to cause the mast to break?


We have only seen a very low percentage of failure to masts in general, so it is very difficult to correlate this wear with failure. Engineering has been told about the information in this forum and has agreed to review.

Quote:
Does Hobie intend to notify owners to check for wear on the mast, since the loss of propulsion by the sail can be a serious safety issue?


Loss of sail is not loss of propulsion on a Hobie Island. We have to review as noted above and have little failure data to work with.

Quote:
Does Hobie intend to inform owners of approved methods to prevent wear from the rivets?


If we find that it is the issue, we would inform with suggested fixes.

Quote:
Does Hobie intend to make a design change to prevent such wear and weakening of the mast?


Up to the engineering review.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:54 am 
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Thank you Mr Miller.

I appreciate a company representative replying regarding this possible problem.
Having recently received a safety recall notice for my car, I am grateful for them contacting me to offer a fix. To hear that your engineers are looking into it gives me confidence in Hobie as a manufacturer as well.

I have no doubt that there are thousands of happy owners that have had no issues whatsoever with their craft and as a prospective owner these forums are a great place to dig a little into the good the bad and the ugly. It is unfortunate that bad feedback or reviews tend to travel further than good but when it comes to expensive kit that may need replacing, I appreciate people offering their opinions when they have valid experience and legitimate concerns.

Hopefully you hear back from your engineer soon and I look forward to any updates offered.

Regards.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:16 am 
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XamaX wrote:
Thank you Mr Miller.

I appreciate a company representative replying regarding this possible problem.
Having recently received a safety recall notice for my car, I am grateful for them contacting me to offer a fix. To hear that your engineers are looking into it gives me confidence in Hobie as a manufacturer as well.

I have no doubt that there are thousands of happy owners that have had no issues whatsoever with their craft and as a prospective owner these forums are a great place to dig a little into the good the bad and the ugly. It is unfortunate that bad feedback or reviews tend to travel further than good but when it comes to expensive kit that may need replacing, I appreciate people offering their opinions when they have valid experience and legitimate concerns.

Hopefully you hear back from your engineer soon and I look forward to any updates offered.

Regards.
These boats are awesome and have many advantages and very few disadvantages. Occasionally the design is not optimal and users come up with inventive fixes and mods that make the boat better. I enjoy improving and customizing my boat. 'Boats are safe in the harbor, but that's not what boats were built for'. Thanks mmiller and Hobie for building these boats and I look forward to improvements. Until then, I'll keep tinkering..

Cujo

Now there's something I need to go put in the water...Image

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:25 pm 
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2017 model 2 months old. Sailed only on weekends. Mast snapped at bottom tearing sail sleeve. Taking mast and sail to dealer. Mast snapped after 2 min on sailing. Have never broken a mast before sailing a CL14 for 40 years, and multiple windsurfers. Hope hobie customer service does not disappoint! Looking at previous pictures seems masts all fail at same point. Wondering if this has been looked at or this is an intentional failure point. This is my first post to this forum!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:28 pm 
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That is Highly unusual and concerning. Certainly not a wear issue. Warranty will take care of it I am sure.

Any feedback on conditions? Winds speeds, chop, weight in the boat?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:37 pm 
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Heavy wind. 3 people on boat. 2 in cockpit one on tramp. Experienced sailor at the helm. Heavy chop. Hit a wave and heard the mast snap back. No one hurt.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:43 pm 
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I just ordered a TI and reading up on things. Glad I saw this thread. Always pays to read these sort of forums.

I do have to wonder though, that the OP said he replaced the rivet before the failure.
If you look at his second set of photos the "Nail" that you pull on to crimp the rivet looks like it could be sharp and exposed.
When I can, I try to knock the nail out of a rivet after crimping by punching it through.

I wonder if this was just sharp enough to score the carbon fiber mast.

But after seeing other folks photos, it appears to be an OBVIOUS weakness in design. It may take a few more years before more failures surface and it's a little disappointing to see the Hobie rep here so defensive. I think the other photos showing ANY wear on a carbon fiber is pretty serious. Carbon Fiber is tricky stuff.

Recessing the rivet is great idea. How simple and proactive would that be for Hobie to implement? And perhaps offer a modification fee to fix existing sails.
The comment that the boat still has mirage drive propulsion "as back up" is seems kind of nuts. A mast breaking is pretty darn dangerous.

I plan to do some preventative measures. I was thinking of wrapping the mast in that area with electrical tape to protect the mast, rather than remove the cleat, for now.

Thanks to the OP for sharing.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:18 am 
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Quote:
it's a little disappointing to see the Hobie rep here so defensive.


I don't think I'm being defensive. I have passed on the info to our engineers for review. We just don't have enough data (not many warranty replacements) to show that the rivet is the cause. Note the failure in the post above... that is a new boat. Highly stressed to failure and certainly not the rivet wear issue. It is too new.

Masts are the most fragile part of any sailboat. They could fail for a variety of reasons. If they were built strong enough to handle all conditions and possible abuses... they would be too heavy for the application. Airplane wings have the same issue.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:17 pm 
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Thanks Hobie and my dealer for working together and getting me back on the water so quickly. You have all been very responsive and easy to deal with.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Same issue same break point.

Hobie TI 2013 model buy on 2014.
10 time out sailing each year.

:cry: :cry: :cry:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:32 am 
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I add other information because seems the problem it's not an isolated case.
In other topic and forums I hear something about extra charge on haka/trampoline that seems stress more the mast.
Not my case but maybe for other person.

When my mast crash I was sailing in a 10 knots wind with some small wave, two person nothing special.
We was lucky that this happen 2 miles out and we have 2 drive, I can`t imagine what can be happen if the same thing occurred when we are 7 miles out during fishing.

I'd like receive some official reply by Hobie staff, I'm not an happy customer.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:33 am 
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Quote:
I'd like receive some official reply by Hobie staff, I'm not an happy customer.


You can (need to) file a warranty claim through your dealer for any "official" response.

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Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Thank you so much for you reply mmiller.
In my case the kayak it's out of warranty, and I'm honest it's not a economic issue.
I only need to know if that problem (seems we have some similar case here) it's under investigation and if you have some suggestion to avoid future problem also if I buy a new mast.

Thank you in advance for your help.


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