Return to Hobie.com

Hobie Forums

It is currently Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:13 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:28 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:14 am
Posts: 86
I saw that a 17t was for sale on a Facebook group and noticed it had a 6hp Tohatsu motor mounted to the back. I have never seen this before. Does anyone here have a motor mounted to their PA and if so, where do you get the bracket?

Also, I have seen an electric motor mount for the front of the PA. Does anyone have that setup? Looking to get some feedback before I go this route. Having some type of motor would really help me keep consistent speeds when trolling

Image

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_________________
Vegasvec
2015 Pro Angler 17t
Lowrance Elite 5 Chirp
Zieman Trailer w/ Cradles


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:54 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2981
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
I don't have a PA, we have a TI, that we use mostly offshore, (and it's a little bigger boat). Most people just make their own motor mounts to suite their particular boat. The PA17 would be particularly easy to make a mount for because of the big wide back, and the big handle back there.

That motor is awesome here is a link to the specs http://www.tohatsu.com/outboards/6_4st_spec.html

I would definately get the sail pro version with the Alternator system and get a couple different props for the boat. I would install the highest pitch prop I could get.
These motors are designed for way larger boats (like big sail boats). The ideal setup would be to mount the motor but then only ever use the motor just above idle on your PA where the motor will be very quiet, it will propel your PA 17 at around 7-8 MPH and should get really great fuel economy (50-60 mpg plus (because the engine will only ever run just above idling)). The last thing you ever want to do is run a motor like this at WOT, the noise it too loud, and you suck down way too much fuel, it's best to rig everything for efficiency (with a 3 gallon external tank you may get a couple hundred miles on a tank). Most outings will cost you under a dollar for the day in fuel. I have a very similar setup and I buy a five gallon can of ethanol free RV gas about twice a year and put in Yamaha fuel stabilizer. I'm out pretty much every weekend and do at least 10-15 miles a week average.


Yes it is unlikely you will be able to get the engine to full rpm (the prop pitch is too much), but this is not important (don't get hung up on max speed, that's a huge mistake), what is important is to have the motor propel the boat at as low an RPM as possible (for quiet). The boat is simply not designed for high speed operation so don't expect to be going 70 mph like you would on a $90k center console with multiple 300 Yamaha's. But then again you can buy ten to twelve of these boats for the price on one of them, and you don't have to spend $300 a week in fuel plus $6000/yr for maint and dry storage.
Not sure I would trust it out offshore (the boat is not stable enough, especially at any kind of speed or rough conditions (but who would want to be out in that anyway))

The boat has a displacement hull (it's not a speedboat), bad things could happen if you try to get much over 10-15 mph (just sayin).

Once you get to your fishing destination, just tilt the motor up and use your mirage drives to troll. On mine I just have a simple line I can tug on to tilt the motor(s) up from my seat. Or get one of those bow mounted trollers with the GPS anchor ( I think Hobie sells a kit)
The alternator will keep all your electronics and lights nicely charged.
If you can get the alternator option with the short shaft (15"), that would be the way to go but you may need to special order.

I just use a throttle extension similar to his so I can control the throttle(s) from my front seat ( yea I have twin engines)
I just keep the engine locked straight and use the boats rudder for steering, but I keep the steering option available just in case my rudder ever breaks (as a backup).
Make sure you have kill switches so you can kill the motor from the seat ( I just use tethers attached to me)

My twin Honda 2.3's weigh about the same as this motor (27 lbs each), they don't effect the balance or capacity of the boat at all (keep in mind the motor weighs much less than a human, and you can easily have 3 adults on your PA 17, so that extra weight means really nothing (I wouldn't recommend that much motor and weight on a PA 12 or 14 though).

Keep in mind I like bigger boats (we always have owned the bigger and heavier tandems, so we are used to the extra girth, and typically trailer anyway, so the weight means nothing to us.

To put things in perspective the whole motor system is the same weight as one lead/acid battery (many people carry two 65 lb batteries) if you had electric propulsion that gives you a range of 20 some miles (at max throttle), you will have around 200 miles range at much higher speeds. If you run the motor as I'm prescribing it's only slightly louder than the electrics. With the added benefit, you can always carry more fuel, or stop and get more if you need it without having to spend 12 hrs charging. I like electrics, but frankly it's still 10-20 yrs from reality. I'll be the first to convert when Electric catches up, but fact of the matter the energy density of liquid gas is 100x that of any battery tech available. The downside to battery electrics is once your out of juice, you are dead in the water.

A boat like this would be a slayer on any of the big conservation core lakes like bull shoals (AK), Lake Hartwell (GA), or lake mead.
My brother in law lived on Bull shoals, his favorite fishing was up by the dam, it was a 30 minute ride @ around 70 mph to get there from his dock on his big Champion bass boat with a 250 merc, I'm pretty sure he paid over $100k for that luxury.
We will be at lake Hartwell for a couple weeks this summer, I would love to have somethin like this. (lake Hartwell is huge, we like to explore).
Hope this helps
FE

Here is a video of my just riding around on a fairly big lake (Lake Manatee, (FL)), you can barely hear the motors running at all, I'm talking over them. Yes I had all my sails out, there wasn't enough wind for them to do much that day (if I had them put away, to speed would have been about the same). I wasn't trying to sail that day I was just exploring a new lake (mostly looking for shallow spots and such, I don't like to open it up (speedwise) if I don't know the area). Just to put things in perspective, if I had just been peddling, I would have been doing about 2 mph. (would have taken me a day to circle the lake)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFJJ6p0uq_E


Edit:
If you don't do big water (ocean) or giant lakes like Bull Shoals, that big gas outboard is major overkill. Hobie sells a front trolling mount for the PA17, that will accept any front trolling motor, you can spend as little or as much as you want on either low end or the cream of the crop like the XI5 Motorguide. If you want more range invest in a big lithium battery (they are not cheap), but still way cheaper than a $2000 dollar 6 hp gas outboard.
Just sain if you do want gas, a Honda 2.3 or Suzuki 2.5 will propel the boat just fine, way cheaper and way lighter (they weigh about 25 lbs and are both extremely reliable and well made. Personally on small lakes, I would go with the bow mounted trolling motor, any model depending on your budget. It's likely an el cheapo WaterSnake will satisfy most of your needs (plenty of those on PA 12 and 14's).
Hopefully some current users PA users will weigh in here.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:19 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:55 pm
Posts: 1
Nice setup. I have a PA14 and want to put a bracket in the back and hang a small 2.5 - 3.0 gas motor. Know anyone building custom brackets?

Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:44 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:52 pm
Posts: 282
Location: North carolina
I’ll buy this big kayak once I see a built in motor mount. For now I’ll continue to enjoy bass fishing with my new Gheeno with 30 hp tohatsu...I think that seat and pedal setup in my PA 14 worsen my lower back pain. So not going back to Hobie until I see a good option of adding a motor for long distance spot fishing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:15 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:52 pm
Posts: 282
Location: North carolina
Here’s what I’m hoping Hobie engineers would build for all their pro angler model. A tube frame that can be pinned down in the frame where you can attach different kind of accessories . Hobie can replace their octagon bars with this kind of frame where we can attach oars lock , outrigger, outboard mount , fish finders , micro anchor, and all others you would need for different style of fishing.

https://www.flycraftusa.com/products/st ... or-package


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:20 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:30 pm
Posts: 28
I've had my 17T for two years now and I absolutely love it. I use it almost exclusively in Narragansett Bay, so I often need to cover a fair amount of distance from my launch location. I like the exercise aspect of the Mirage, but after many hours, some power assist would be nice, and I would also like to be able to go even further without worry of running out of steam heading back against tide and wind.

Since the 17T has three mirage drive locations, I could use a motor mounted in a drive hole and still use my mirage pedals from the main seating position. That seems to eliminate one of the major concerns folks express about the drive hole mounting location for a motor. However it would still have the disadvantage (relative to stern or bow mount) of the motor not being able to kick-up if it hits something. Since I'm mostly in deeper water, this is not a major concern for me, but there have been a couple of times when I was late pulling up my mirage and had them hit ground.

My problem with stern mounting is I use the stern rail for loading an unloading the 17T from its trailer, and I'm concerned that having a motor mounted there would make this a much bigger chore. I guess if the motor came on and off easily enough that might be ok. But I had envisioned any motor I might use staying mounted all the time.

The "official" mounting location for a motor on the 17T is the bow with the Hobie trolling motor mount. I haven't seen much on the web of people using this (other than Hobie's promos)

So anyway, I really just wanted to reopen this older thread specifically for the 17T and see what other folks have done or are currently thinking about doing. Watersnake? Evolve? Motorguide? Torqeedo 403? Bixpy Jet? Gas engine? Propane (Tohasu MFS5LPG)?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:10 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:30 pm
Posts: 28
What does it take to get a 17T going 8-10 mph? I've been told that the evolve will move this thing at 5.1mph in calm conditions. I've also seen it reported that the MotorGuide Xi5 only goes less than 3! The whole reason I want a motor is to get where I want to be (and back) faster than I can pedal. If I want to get close to 10mph for two hours can any electric setup do this? You can now get 12v 100Ah Lithium batteries (1200 Wh) for about a grand. Two of these would power a 80lb. thrust 24V trolling motor for quite a while. I assume the problem is prop pitch? Would a custom prop fix this?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:56 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:58 am
Posts: 44
Dolphran wrote:
What does it take to get a 17T going 8-10 mph? I've been told that the evolve will move this thing at 5.1mph in calm conditions. I've also seen it reported that the MotorGuide Xi5 only goes less than 3! The whole reason I want a motor is to get where I want to be (and back) faster than I can pedal. If I want to get close to 10mph for two hours can any electric setup do this? You can now get 12v 100Ah Lithium batteries (1200 Wh) for about a grand. Two of these would power a 80lb. thrust 24V trolling motor for quite a while. I assume the problem is prop pitch? Would a custom prop fix this?


The 17T is a displacement hull not a planing hull so you will never get it faster than its theoretical limit which is probably not 8-10mph. But I could be wrong.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:07 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:30 pm
Posts: 28
I've seen that people with gas outboards are getting 7-10mph without issue (at least on Tandem Islands which I think the 17T would be comparable to in this regard). But I hate the thought of using gas and all the hassle and maintenance. There are small propane outboards now which are at least a little greener than gas. But then I thought why not the Torqeedo Cruise 2.0R? If money were no object, it's like a 403 on steroids. Same throttle control, and you can use your own batteries. Anyone else crazy enough to have considered this?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:14 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2981
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
If you look at the hull shape on th PA 17 it’s nicely rounded on the bottom and with enough power should be able to get up on plane. A 6hp yamaha weighs around 37 lbs, and with a 7” pitch prop will easily get you over ten mph cruise speed, ( I hear the suzuki 6hp is also ok). However at those speeds and higher it’s likely to get very skiddish and unstable, ( likely very dangerous, especially in chop and when trying to turn). High risk of the boat tripping while turning.
The biggest risk will be the boat pitchpoling and diving if you hit a boat wake. The problem is the boat is very short, and very low in the water. What happens is the boat goes over the first wave, on top of the second, then dives under the third. We have pitch poled our TI’s at least 6 times, (20 mph to zero mph in 2 seconds flat, very painful and does extreme damage)
If you do the math theoretically that prop should get to to around 15mph at WOT, but theirs a lot going on powerwise, that 6hp is likely not enough to hit 15mph.
If you can find an outboard with an alternater that provides charging power, that would be huge, especially if you have a gps bow mounted trolling motor also installed.
That would be my dream boat.
FE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:36 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:30 pm
Posts: 28
Well, I'm committed now - I just bought a Torqeedo 1003C and the 1901 prop with 30% greater pitch than the 403/evolve prop. Now I have to fab a motor mount for it. I'll update here with my mount plans.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:33 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:30 pm
Posts: 28
Image
So here's my plan so far.... This is an image of an aluminum plate (.25" 6061-T6) the two small black dots on the far left and right are holes that the rear h-bar mounting screws go through (with the hbar remounted on top of the plate. The slightly darker rectangle in the middle is where 2" of Starboard will be attached on the back side. The two large black circles are holes in the aluminum plate (showing the StarBoard on the other side). The transom mount clamps on the motor are intended to go here so that the motor is purely clamping on StarBoard, and the aluminum surrounds the clamps so the motor can't accidently slip.

The only part not represented here is an attachment of horizontal plate on the front surface that will screw in where the PA rudder cover is.


What do you think?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:58 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:30 pm
Posts: 28
So for this project I need to attach two 1" pieces of StarBoard together to make a 2" thick piece (small pieces - only 7" x 4") then then these need to be attached to a "0.25" aluminum plate. Can anyone here guide me as to what fasteners to use? I understand that StarBoard can't be glued and counter-sunk screws are not recommended. Although I think I could safely counter-sink on the aluminum side. Should the StarBoard be screwed together independently and then attached to the aluminum plate, or can I come through the aluminum side and into both pieces of StarBoard screwing together the whole sandwich at once?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:15 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:01 am
Posts: 72
Location: Near Austin, TX
Great topic, following some, need to get my recently aquired 14 PA and 13 Revo up-to-speed and trailer built out. Just one question, once a gas motor is installed, do I have to have a vessel registration? I live in Texas, unfortunately :(

_________________
Thank you,
Roy Niswanger


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:47 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2981
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Yes pretty much in all states, you need registration, as soon as you add any trolling or gas motor. Our insurance agent highly suggested we register and title all our kayaks.
FE


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
© Hobie Cat Company. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group