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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:35 am 
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Location: N. Nevada
First post and first Hobie :P ; thank you for letting me join the community!

I just changed into a PA 14 360. I picked it up last week from Kayak City (thank you bhoys!). I want to add wheels in that I will need them in order to move this kayak around. I weighed several options and am seriously looking at installing the Boondox Groovy Landing Gear (I don't want to have to tip the kayak or figure out a way to get wheels into the scupper holes without loosing all my crap). My research shows that there were several hull cracks where the Boondox landing gear was mounted to several kayaks. I don't know if Hobie was exempt from this or if any particular brand of kayak was more prone than others. Boondox indicates that they are providing longer supports for inside the kayak which should reduce a potential for cracking. In addition to this, when I picked up my kayak, one of the techs said that Hobie upgraded the hull in the area where the Boondox mounts. So here goes:

1. Does anyone know if Hobie upgraded the hull in the mounting area to better accommodate a Boondox Landing Gear?
2. Any pros-cons from your experience with the Boondox Groovy Landing Gear?
3. Do you have a better recommendation for wheels? Keeping in mind I don't want to flip my kayak sideways to install wheels.

FYI I understand the warranty issues.......

Thank you in advance for any assistance and information.

Kai

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:10 pm 
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Location: Central Texas
Welcome to the Hobie forum! I agree the Boonedox is really the only way to go on the PA14. Dealing with straps blowing in the wind or tipping the kayak over or laying down in mud/water to place wheels under the kayak isn't for me.

I have the Groovy landing gear on my 2016 PA14. I haven't had it installed long but so far I have not had any issues. I think the biggest issue and reason for hull cracks with the Boonedox is folks misusing it. I've seen guys pull their kayaks up out of a boat ramp, hit a pothole 6" deep and not even blink an eye. Saw a video of a guy that hooks his PA to his hitch using a bracket he made then pulls his PA up the ramp with his truck using his Boonedox. This IMO is NO BUENO! I make certain I never pull my kayak over bumpy terrain, hit potholes in asphalt, pull it off a curb or anything else that could cause sudden impact on the plastic hull. After all the Boonedox is stainless steel (backing plate) versus a plastic hull.

As long as you use the Boonedox with caution I think you'll be fine. If you intend on using it on rocky or rough terrain I would advice against the Boonedox.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:10 pm 
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Thanks Swfinatic, I appreciate your feedback. I am so looking forward to getting this beast into the water.

Have a great week!

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 2:13 pm 
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FYI, I ended yup purchasing the Groovy BooneDox. I purchased the one listed for the PA years 2015 - current. Before I received the package I watched a number of videos in relation to mounting the BooneDox onto the kayak. My research showed that BooneDox changed their hardware several times over the last few years. When I opened the BooneDox Landing Gear box I found that the hardware was different from the hardware depicted in the videos that I had watched so far. I did a dry install (mock up) and found that without a moderate amount of fabrication the BooneDox would not fit properly, especially under the H-Bars. I don't mind doing some fabrication, but with this one I was going to have to really do some work. It was not worth it to me so I have sent it back to BooneDox. Cost $50 to ship it back. Pretty expensive lesson.

If you are reading this for a 2020 PA and looking at the BooneDox, unless they change their mounting system you may be in for a little work. Certainly doable, just not my thing for a brand new boat.

https://boonedoxusa.com/collections/landing-gear

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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 5:45 am 
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When you say "moderate amount of fabrication" what do you mean? When I clicked on the link you provided and looked at the Groovy Landing gear parts in the picture they are identical to what I installed on my 2016 PA 14. I did have to raise the H-rail so the landing gear cross bar would slide under the H-Rail but BoonDox provides spacers for this. Also I did have to move the paddle holders but there was not fabrication required to install the Groovy landing gear on my PA 14 other than drilling 4 holes to mount the bar.


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 6:33 am 
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I don’t have a PA but I can see how a cart that mounts through the scuppers would be a pain. This cart may be an option for you. http://paddlelogic.com/trailtreker-kayak-carts.html

I’m thinking of copying the design and making one for my Revo. No lifting required it simply slides right on to the hull.
~JOE~


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 7:15 am 
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Joetrain wrote:
I don’t have a PA but I can see how a cart that mounts through the scuppers would be a pain. This cart may be an option for you. http://paddlelogic.com/trailtreker-kayak-carts.html

I’m thinking of copying the design and making one for my Revo. No lifting required it simply slides right on to the hull.
~JOE~

Joe I agree I found scupper carts even on lighter more narrow kayaks like the Revo are a pain mostly when returning to the launch after fishing. I launch a muddy banks a lot and trying use a scupper cart on a muddy bank is a mess.

I bought the Seattle Sports Peanut cart and use it with my Revo 13. I use it on the nose of the kayak and it works pretty well. It is designed to fold up (somewhat) so it stows a little easier. I found that it always started to fold up while I was moving the kayak so I tightened the bolts super tight so it no longer folds up but it works great now. Will be using it later today. :D

https://www.seattlesportsco.com/peanut-cart-new.html


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 8:21 am 
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Swfinatic wrote:
Joetrain wrote:
I don’t have a PA but I can see how a cart that mounts through the scuppers would be a pain. This cart may be an option for you. http://paddlelogic.com/trailtreker-kayak-carts.html

I’m thinking of copying the design and making one for my Revo. No lifting required it simply slides right on to the hull.
~JOE~

Joe I agree I found scupper carts even on lighter more narrow kayaks like the Revo are a pain mostly when returning to the launch after fishing. I launch a muddy banks a lot and trying use a scupper cart on a muddy bank is a mess.

I bought the Seattle Sports Peanut cart and use it with my Revo 13. I use it on the nose of the kayak and it works pretty well. It is designed to fold up (somewhat) so it stows a little easier. I found that it always started to fold up while I was moving the kayak so I tightened the bolts super tight so it no longer folds up but it works great now. Will be using it later today. :D

https://www.seattlesportsco.com/peanut-cart-new.html



That cart looks good. I’m curious though how it is over a long distance? When I have my Revo 11 loaded with all my typical fishing gear if I don’t get my cart in the right spot then it is difficult to pull my yak a long distance. If the cart is too far back then it’s bow heavy and my arm feels like it’s going to be stretched to the ground. That’s the only thing keeping me from the trail trekker. It looks like it can only be slid up to a certain point.

I’m just getting old I guess. Yesterday I carted my yak about 1/4 mile on a paved surface but the return trip was on a slight uphill grade. I had to stop to rest 3 times. At the end I was thinking I should invent a motorized cart.

~JOE~


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 8:27 am 
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Joetrain wrote:
Swfinatic wrote:
Joetrain wrote:
I don’t have a PA but I can see how a cart that mounts through the scuppers would be a pain. This cart may be an option for you. http://paddlelogic.com/trailtreker-kayak-carts.html

I’m thinking of copying the design and making one for my Revo. No lifting required it simply slides right on to the hull.
~JOE~

Joe I agree I found scupper carts even on lighter more narrow kayaks like the Revo are a pain mostly when returning to the launch after fishing. I launch a muddy banks a lot and trying use a scupper cart on a muddy bank is a mess.

I bought the Seattle Sports Peanut cart and use it with my Revo 13. I use it on the nose of the kayak and it works pretty well. It is designed to fold up (somewhat) so it stows a little easier. I found that it always started to fold up while I was moving the kayak so I tightened the bolts super tight so it no longer folds up but it works great now. Will be using it later today. :D

https://www.seattlesportsco.com/peanut-cart-new.html



That cart looks good. I’m curious though how it is over a long distance? When I have my Revo 11 loaded with all my typical fishing gear if I don’t get my cart in the right spot then it is difficult to pull my yak a long distance. If the cart is too far back then it’s bow heavy and my arm feels like it’s going to be stretched to the ground. That’s the only thing keeping me from the trail trekker. It looks like it can only be slid up to a certain point.

I’m just getting old I guess. Yesterday I carted my yak about 1/4 mile on a paved surface but the return trip was on a slight uphill grade. I had to stop to rest 3 times. At the end I was thinking I should invent a motorized cart.

~JOE~

1/4 of a mile is a loonngg way to pull a kayak. I've never pulled a kayak more than about 400 feet and that was my Revo 13 recently with the SS peanut cart. It did fine after I tightened the bolts up so it wouldn't try to fold up on me.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 10:25 am 
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Swfinatic wrote:
When you say "moderate amount of fabrication" what do you mean? When I clicked on the link you provided and looked at the Groovy Landing gear parts in the picture they are identical to what I installed on my 2016 PA 14. I did have to raise the H-rail so the landing gear cross bar would slide under the H-Rail but BoonDox provides spacers for this. Also I did have to move the paddle holders but there was not fabrication required to install the Groovy landing gear on my PA 14 other than drilling 4 holes to mount the bar.


I thought I submitted a response a couple of days ago. It must have went into Limbo. If it pops up there will be two seperate posts regarding this response.

Oi, before I started the install I watched a ton of videos on installing the BooneDox Landing Gear (BLG) to Hobie PA's but mostly on the Outback because that seems to be a more popular in U-tube videos. In my research I found that the BLG has gone through several tweaks to its hardware over the last few years. I would imagine that Hobie hulls and decks are also seeing some changes forcing BooneDox to have to keep up to any changes.

When I received the kit from BooneDox I found hardware included that had I had not observed in any of the videos I watched. The difference was in the backing plates and brackets used to attach the BLG knuckles to the kayak. The backing plates are now longer and the brackets have been replaced. In the videos watched, the BLG knuckles were attached tot he backing plates with "guskets." In the kit I received for the PA there are no guskets. There are L brackets.

I wanted to mount the BLG directly behind the seat where the raised rib travels the width of the kayak. I am not sure if the deck and H-rail is different on the 2020 PA's or if I just could not figure out a work around but the 2020 PA deck and BLG seemed incompatible.

The length of the new backing plates and the L brackets that come with the BLG prohibited mounting the BLG directly behind the seat along the rib where I wanted it. The shape of the deck, the length of the backing plates and the L brackets forced me to mount the BLG about 3" to the rear of the rib behind the seat and several inches from the edge of the kayak hull. This is right where the rod holder, screw in paddle holder, and pad eye is located. This are is also several inches below the edge if the kayak where the knuckles have to be. I placed the knuckles onto the kayak and the backing plates in the location for install. I then attached the L brackets to the knuckles using the track system. When this was done there was a significant gap (several inches) between the base of the L brackets and the mounting plates on the kayak. This was a 'yuge' gap. Something would need to be manufactured to fill the gap between the L brackets and the attachment points to the kayak. Last, with the knuckles now 3" or so behind the rib, it is now near the end of the H-rail that I had to unscrew from the kayak in order to slide the knuckle onto the edge of the kayak. With the knuckles in place there is a good 1 1/2" gap between the screw point for the H-rail and the attachment point to the kayak. The 1/2" spacer with the BLG is not even close enough to filling the gap. I was going to have to manufacture another spacer, buy one, or cut the H-rail and re-drill.

Hopefully my description is somewhat clear. What it comes down to is that if this BLG kit is used on a 2020 PA there will need to be a significant amount of manufacturing at the install point and with the H-rail. I did not observe these two specific issues in any of the videos I watched prior to attempting to do the install. I could have manufactured a work around but with a brand new kayak I was reluctant to do a slice and dice on the deck and H-rail. I kind of got a feeling that the 2020 PA deck is just a little bit different from the Hobie PA deck BooneDox used to design the BLG and that any design change that has occurred over the last few years to the PA deck has not yet caught up to BLG product development. It is a shame because the PA 14 is heavy and those wheels would have been amazing.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 4:54 am 
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Thanks for the explanation. I was under the impression the only thing Hobie changed on the Pro Angler 360 was the drive well and drive system. I was thinking the rest of the kayak was unchanged.

I installed the currently Groovy BLG over the raised rib you referred to with no issues. Yes it does raise the H-Rail up some but Boonedox provides a spacer for that. No cutting or fabricating was required to install mine on my 2016.

Maybe Hobie did change the design of the 2020 Pro Angler 360 other than the drive well and drive?


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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 1:36 pm 
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The H-Rail changed in 2018, so any Boonedox install video before that won't work. The Groovy Landing gear is also different. I found this video and followed it. Install went well, except to do the reinforcements Josh did in the vid you actually have to mount it slightly forward of the cross rib. That created a 1/4 inch obstruction for the plates inside the hull, which I had to cut off one end of the backing plate. I really like the reinforcement idea and I used a single layer 3/4 inch thick star board.

https://youtu.be/h3N7hC6iChg


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