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Pro Angler's Control Challenge
http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=48352		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Jab9301 [ Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Pro Angler's Control Challenge
Longtime Hobie Yaker (Outlander & Outback x 2) recently moved up to Pro Angler (12). Each new purchase, over the years, produced products that reflected improvements that were noted during usage of previous products (Hobie listened to the customer). Regrettably, I should have waited a few more years before purchasing the 12' Angler. The Angler handles exceptionally well when conditions are perfect (no winds, current, or waves); however, once presented with any one of the conditions, the Angler's handling is a challenge which requires constant attention. Noted challenges:
Current: Angler requires hands-on steering at all times if a course is desired once presented with current. Any attempt to relax or use hands (for fishing or preps) and the Angler will quickly shift direction (no real reason why). Once the Angler shifts direction, it's very much a challenge to get it back on course. This is extremely troublesome when other motorboats are in close vicinity and the Angler wide turns in current places the Angler in a very bad position. This is not the case with previous Hobie yaks.
Waves: This is where the Angler worries me the most. I'm not talking about 5 footers, any wave action seems to challenge the Angler. It's quick to shift directions during wave transitions. Often I find myself fighting to get the bow back into the waves. It constantly wants to shift directions. Once again, this isn't a problem I've experienced with my other Hobie Yaks except when my 2 seater Outlander didn't have a 2nd person to balance weight.
Wind: The Angler is sensitive to wind. I'm guessing this might be more about amount of boat and rider that can be hit by the wind.

I'm confident I'm not the first to provide this feedback to Hobie. Hopefully, we have a fix fast approaching. Any word?
Author:  BigRedObsession [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pro Angler's Control Challenge
Sounds like you should sell it to me for cheap since your having all these problems with it lol.
Author:  Tom Kirkman [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pro Angler's Control Challenge
The reason the boat shifts positions is actually for very apparent reasons. First, it's a boat and is constantly affected by winds, waves, current, your body movements, etc. Everything you have mentioned in your post here is quite normal for most boats. If you want the PA (boat) to handle like your Outback , then it'll have to become an Outback.

There are a couple or three things you can do to help maintain your desired point. A drift sock/chute can help you keep the nose pointed where you want. You will have to learn where to attach it for the desired results. Boat trim - where you put most of your "stuff" also plays a large role. You may want to try shifting more weight to the rear, or to the nose, until you find a good trim point that allows wind to act more evenly on the front and rear halves of the boat.

Beyond that, it remains a boat floating on the water at the mercy of wind and current.
Author:  Memory Maker [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pro Angler's Control Challenge
Tom Kirkman wrote:
The reason the boat shifts positions is actually for very apparent reasons. First, it's a boat and is constantly affected by winds, waves, current, your body movements, etc. Everything you have mentioned in your post here is quite normal for most boats. If you want the PA (boat) to handle like your Outback , then it'll have to become an Outback.

There are a couple or three things you can do to help maintain your desired point. A drift sock/chute can help you keep the nose pointed where you want. You will have to learn where to attach it for the desired results. Boat trim - where you put most of your "stuff" also plays a large role. You may want to try shifting more weight to the rear, or to the nose, until you find a good trim point that allows wind to act more evenly on the front and rear halves of the boat.

Beyond that, it remains a boat floating on the water at the mercy of wind and current.



......... and yet ...... Hobie lists it under the Mirage Kayaks section ........... the boat thing has been well discussed and it was listed that way for a marketing scheme per Hobie. While I love the PA, it could use a few improvements as mentioned above and others that are also well documented.
Author:  islandspeed2001 [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pro Angler's Control Challenge
There have been many discussions on the steering of the Pro Angler. Here is a thread that goes into this subject. Think you might find it interesting.

viewtopic.php?f=78&t=46182&hilit=pro+angler+steering
Author:  Tom Kirkman [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pro Angler's Control Challenge
Apparently the wind, water, current, etc. don't read the Hobie catalog descriptions.

The hull of the PA is not similar to the more familiar kayak model and thus it does not behave the same way.
Author:  Jab9301 [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pro Angler's Control Challenge
Thanks for the information. I see the handling issue is very much documented across the forums. I also see Hobie has acknowledged the concerns. Had to smile a bit when reading the Admiral's comments IRT effects. It's a given what the effects of the elements can do to a boat, but the effects should not be this drastic. I've got a bit of underway time in my boats as well as my yaks and the PA is by far the most sensitive. This handling issue was a surprise given the amount of Hobie communique on the handling ability of the PA.
Author:  BigRedObsession [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pro Angler's Control Challenge
Tom Kirkman, what year model PA do you own?
Author:  Tom Kirkman [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pro Angler's Control Challenge
PA 14, 2011. The wind and current blow it around, just as expected.
Author:  AllElectricPA14 [ Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pro Angler's Control Challenge
Fixed mine by adding a twist and stow with the big rudder. The twin rudders allow for hands free straight running and total control in currents waves winds whatever. No more insufficient control authority.

Image

Image
Author:  RockyRaab [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pro Angler's Control Challenge
I only recently had control issues with my PA14, but that was while fishing in pretty heavy (estimate at 20+ mph) wind. In effect, my body, my ice chest and my landing net provided enough sail area behind the boat's center of pressure that the bow would swing into the wind at lure-trolling speed. If I got on the pedals, I could regain rudder authority, but couldn't fish.

But my problems were wind-related and cargo related, not due to boat design.
Author:  Jab9301 [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pro Angler's Control Challenge
Captain,

Another friend (also owns a PA) and I discussed a larger rudder might help but didn't think about running with 2 rudders. I see how that can be of help. Did you run both rudders to same turning control? who purchased a PA
Author:  Yakiddy Yak [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pro Angler's Control Challenge
Hello
My two cents would be that it'd be nice if dead straight somehow had a bit of a notch in it when you're steering. Best I can describe it is often on a car stereo, there is a "catch" of some sort when you use the fade front/back and left/right knobs to tell you when you're balanced 100% between them. That way, it'll maybe be a bit easier to just go straight or at least know you've set it straight, like autopilot - just enough of a catch to stay put. Could a small part of the tracking straight issue be thinking you are steering straight ahead but you're actually a fraction off and then you steer back, reset "straight" against but, again, you're a little bit off?

I must say it could be me, I've tightened my steering and pretty sure I've set it straight and tightened well but there's still a bit of play. Play might not be the word... I have the dual handle setup and there's a bit of wiggle in the handles. I was out in pretty calm water and was fiddling getting it to go straight, like "is my right or left handle more accurate at this particular moment?" Maybe I could tighten my steering up more (I think some of the play is in the handle's screw more so than from the drum?) but a catch at straight might be nice and possible easy to do...

This has nothing to do with current, waves or wind etc, so it might be in the wrong post... But I have wondered about how to know the handle's set the boat to straight. A little bit off could cause a lot of frustration and I could see the other single handle kayaks might not have this issue so much. I'm not familiar with other kayaks but I remember from ages ago, bigger boats pretty much go up, over, down, up, over, down and soon enough you're well over if you don't adjust as you go, the PA reminds me of it when I hit waves... Maybe the catch would be a pain if you were in conditions that needed constant adjusting.
Author:  Tom Kirkman [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pro Angler's Control Challenge
Walk around to the back of the boat and set the rudder straight by hand. Now return to the cockpit and with a Sharpie magic marker, put an outline or alignment mark on the steering toggle so you know when you have the rudder aimed straight ahead.

Of course, the boat isn't going to go straight ahead, boats don't do that, but at least you'll know when you have the rudder set straight. A point of reference that you may find handy.
Author:  Dr.SteelheadCatcher [ Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pro Angler's Control Challenge
Honestly guys and gals, I have to chuckle to myself about this topic....as Tom said, boats don't go straight and I think we all agree.
This is why autopilots are sold in large numbers to boat owners.
I see a classic business opportunity for someone like Minn Kota, to adapt their auto pilot for kayak use....this will end the endless complaints about keeping a kayak tracking straight or on a given compass heading. :idea:
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