Return to Hobie.com
Hobie Forums
It is currently Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:11 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:48 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:25 pm
Posts: 2
For a company that produces "premium" products, how come the customer support is so horrendous? I realize you guys get burned from time to time, but it's your job to sift through all that and determine legitimate claims like I have in the past with no resolution.

Do I need to link to my older posts showing how useless and blame-oriented your support is? I've even had my dealer file the claim within 2 weeks of purchasing and was told "don't expect anything to come back". Even Scheels recognizes this!

My issue now, a $230 cover ripping to shreds every time I put it on and take it off. The cover lasted me two years because I covered 80% of it in gorilla tape. I purchased a second last weekend and if it rips before the end of this year; Hobie will replacement, mark my words.

My original issue that was never resolved was a warped deck right from the dealer and not a peep from you guys, WOW.

I manage hundreds of products for a global corporation, from core team to final production. I know defects and I know when someone is trying to save face. Do the right thing moving forward guys, because I don't hear anything good about your support. Step it up.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:51 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 13572
Location: Oceanside, California
Quote:
how come the customer support is so horrendous?


Sorry, you feel that way. This is not what we usually hear from our consumers.

Please send me links as your user name has only this one post in our forums. "Do I need to link to my older posts showing how useless and blame-oriented your support is?" Understand that we do not handle claims in these forums and always would direct you to your dealer.

Our warranty manager would not be able to cross-reference old claims that you may have placed over the years or post you have made in forums. We just don't have the system for that. That would have to be pointed out to your dealer to include in a claim if you feel the information is relevant.

Covers are a product not made by us. We distribute the Danuu brand and their warranty is for one year. Any extension beyond that is something we would offer on the side and we often do a pro-rated discount on items out of their warranty period.

Covers are sacrificial. They absorb the UV, dirt, windage to help extend the life of the kayak. They are not made from the most expensive materials to keep the covers at a reasonable price. You could get covers that will last longer... at a higher price. We do not recommend high-speed travel with the covers in place. This just shreds the materials.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:24 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:25 pm
Posts: 2
That’s fine, I think I posted under ChadLaugh and I can explain why. This post came out of frustration when I thought about upgrading to your latest PA14 model, but couldn’t get that bad taste out of my mouth from my first purchase and subsequent purchases of Hobie products. Delete, forward, read; do what you feel is best with my message, but here’s my two-year struggle.

I ordered a 2018 PA14 from Scheels; when it arrived, I stored it and ordered a marine mat. While installing the marine mat, I started noticing shoddy work (can’t really put it any nicer) and possible issues with the mold. I made a post about it on this forum, but wanted to remain anonymous pending the warranty claim filed by the dealer and didn’t make a big deal of it on here (having good faith you would do your due diligence). In the post, I pointed out the warped deck and issues with the center hatch gasket, screw placement and hole cut-out. I should mention that the dealer told me that you wouldn’t respond to my claim for months, which is when I started to realize the road we’re going down. Any way, the forum post ended with no comment on my center hatch job. All I received from the post was a tip on how to store the kayak and wouldn’t get into details regarding the other issues and I assumed it was because the warranty claim was being looked at.

Weeks go by and frankly, I’m fishing. I can notice the uneven deck when I stand and notice the hatch doesn’t align that great when using it. The kayak rides straight, but I’m standing and casting more than I’m sitting and moving; the uneven deck is uncomfortable, period. I challenge anyone to stand for 10 hours casting double 10s on that deck, your right leg is literally doing all the work to the point I think I have runners knee, lol.

The dealer never called me when Hobie apparently responded to the claim. I called Scheels and inquired the status; he asked me if the kayak rides straight, which it does. He proceeded to tell me that Hobie warranty will only cover the kayak if it doesn’t ride as intended. At this point, I’m mid-Spring season and have essentially been ignored on the forum and with the dealer. I haven’t been on the kayak long enough to notice the knee issue I believe is caused by the uneven deck forcing my stance, so I swallowed the $3,500 and plowed ahead.

I purchased the PA14 cover, and Heavy Duty Cart, totaling $400 with tax. I remove the cover before I load onto my truck and only take it with me when camping. The cover ripped where my depth finder ball ram was located, next to the right steer. Immediately my first thought was, “don’t waste your time, Hobie will say it’s not covered for tear on accessories”……… When factoring this as my first thought after going $4,000 deep with your brand should speak volumes. At this point, I only fault Hobie for not catching the center hatch during quality, since it appears you assume my 4-day storage on PVC warped the deck to become permanently unleveled surface. I understand dealers are hit or miss and I see your statement about covers, but again I plowed ahead…

Not even 8 months after owning the “Heavy Duty” cart, it fell to pieces while walking it to the bank. The right lock pin either broke or bent off and the outside bushing to the tire popped off. Believe it or not, I searched for the bushing for almost 2 hours and remarkably MIA. I emailed Hobie to ask if I could purchase a single bushing; Hobie said NO because you source the wheels to a supplier or something. So my missing bushing is putting a $150 “heavy duty” cart out of commission?!?!? I saw I could purchase a single wheel with bushing for $50, but you know what? I 3D modeled and printed my own custom bushing that I believe is designed better (anyone want the .stl file?). AAAAND AGAIN, plowing ahead.

Over the last two years (I was wilderness systems 15 years), I’ve remained brand loyal and have purchased almost every Hobie accessory to the point I feel married to it. The memories I made in my Hobie almost feels like the vessel is a part of me and who I am. The dilemma to choose another company is unsettling, which is why I feel compelled to share my two year experience with you. I’m not your average kayak fisherman; I’m part of the hardcore base that will influence future generations. Fortunately, I’m well enough to cut ties with this brand if I decide to. I may have to dish it to my Pops; he’s only part-time kayaker and doesn’t stand ;)

As my yak sits in my 10-foot bed 6-days a week, a question I get often at many drive-through restaurants, car washes, gas stations, neighbors, coworkers, etc is, “how do I like my kayak?”. Based on my experience, I would tell them to consider when buying:

[list=]How the kayak is being stored for display
How much the dealer is in tune with kayaking in the area (scheels has no clue what’s going on).
All gaskets and seals
Take a level reading on the deck pads where you stand as well as the center hatch.
Screw placement
Mesh and pull rope condition of the vantage seat.
Pull ropes for the rod holders are weak knotted and slide through the handles, double knot those bad johnnies
Deep cuts or grooves in the hull (I see this on almost every display model).
If shipped to the dealer, MAKE THEM UNBOX IT AND SHOW YOU EVERYTHING! The guy was so lazy, he told me to check it out at home and report back, which……I………Did…….[/list]

This can sound a bit overwhelming to someone looking to buy, but we do this with cars, right?

I wrote to the best of my recollection and feel free to call me out, I can take it, but I really don’t want to go back-and-forth getting further into the weeds.

Best memory - 6:30am high pressure bass tournament launched from docks, passing me left and right as I prepare for a long drift adjacent to a steep bank with 25mph gusts. Overcast, dark skies, went for a long haul on a double #6 babygirl to the point my backing nearly protruded from the braid. Slow crank of the power handle until I felt blades and ran it DEEP. When I felt it climbing to the hull of the yak, I sped up faster and faster into a wide turn with about 12 inches between my lure and rod tip before she appeared; a beautiful 46” female muskie. She seemingly disappeared into the abyss and I continued my figure-eight feeling the pulse through my eyes. Then she came back, she was always coming back.

Winter blues logging out

- BK

2019 Best Catches
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wrnYzruRezb1bFeU6


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:14 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:55 pm
Posts: 404
OH NO !!! .. ... you do hear negative reports from your customers ALL THE TIME. You, Matt just choose to ignore them or suggest that the customer that spent good money on Hobie’s expensive and untested products. I have had many discussions over the years with you publicly on this forum. The gentleman that posted this is exactly on the mark.

Hobie sells and promotes and profits from products they have made by other companies and have the Hobie logo on them. When there is a problem, Matt says that it’s not Hobie’s problem because Hobie did not make it. This is maddenly stupid and attempts to deny any responsibility for their products. Hobie has had problems with the covers in the past. I had 2 Hobie covers for my Pro Anglers. While they were listed as a cover for the PA, it barely fit and the straps would not even reach the other side. We had extensive discussions about this. Hobie FINALLY had the covers made bigger but refused to offer a discount to those that faithfully bought the faulty and obviously unfitted product. I was offered something but did not take it because | felt it was not fair to everyone

Hobie has a reputation of putting out untested and poorly designed products the expecting the customer to fix them. The front hatch on a PA on the older PA’s (not sure about the newer ones) leak like a sieve but Hobie wants us to spend more or figure out how to stop it ourselves. The older livewells would burst at the seams, the older scupper trolleys were only spot welded and broke on the PA’s. The Mirage drive mounts even broke on the older Hobies. Hobie did exchange those after awhile. The stabilizers didn’t fit the PA even though they did not say that it didn’t fit the PA ........... etc etc etc.

Shoot, Hobie even put a Stupid label on their yaks saying that the max size engines could not exceed 400 watts. REALLY .......... engines are measured by ft/pd thrust or hp. This has caused a bunch of problems in the engine industry because of the new engines coming out.

Hobie has a great product because of the Mirage drive but their product testing seems non existent and the customer service is mediocre.

Matt, you are a big part of this. The latest was when you were asked about the 400 watt engine concern. You offered an opinion rather than saying you would check on it. You only checked when we asked you about the official response.

Sorry Matt but I won’t let you claim this again.

I am the customer you want. I am retired and fortunate to be debt free with an income that allows me to buy what I want ....... but I will not buy another Hobie accessory product until it has been on the market for awhile and there is no other company that offers a similar product. I have been burned by Hobie and frustrated by the attitude you present on the behalf of Hobie. I don’t want to feel ripped off and abandoned by Hobie again.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:14 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 13572
Location: Oceanside, California
Memory Maker... Sorry I have failed to answer your specific questions and disagree at times.

It's not about NOT hearing of defects or issues on these forums. Of course, we do. It is that we DO try to solve problems and we try hard to support our consumers. We make some very complicated molded products with innovative features... and we make a LOT of them, so of course, issues do happen. I did not say otherwise.

The 400 watt label is an industry-standard. Not something I or Hobie came up with. You would have to take that up with the NMMA or the EU.

Just because we place a logo on a product does NOT make us responsible beyond the manufacturer's stated one year warranty. We do offer (as noted in my comments) to help in cases that are suspect and we will be noting more disclaimers for the covers. Not designed for highway travel. Not designed for rail-mounted accessories left in place during storage. There is just some much canvas can stand with unintended loads and wear/pressure points. Dannu is now providing reinforcement patches for people who don't want to remove accessories. We also continue to work with them to be sure the materials are as good as possible for the price point.

Understand that I don't always have the time to dig into obscure questions or issues raised here and I don't get to read every post or get involved in every topic. That is just not possible. I miss a lot I am sure. You do see my name a lot as I am the most active (13,000+ Posts). I also cover each and every topic and product line, when I can and I answer forums questions more due to my passion for helping people... not due to any company obligation as these are user forums... this is not a Hobie direct link to support system. The forums are public driven for the most part. Very few companies offer as much direct support as we do forums. I hear that all the time here. Matter of fact, many companies close their user forums to avoid negativity. I don't... I understand that people get frustrated at times and I try to work through the issues.

Thanks for being a loyal Hobie customer even in light of your frustrations with us. That means a lot.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:46 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 13572
Location: Oceanside, California
morrowboarder,

Now to the topic posted by you.

Thank you for being a loyal Hobie customer even though you have been frustrated at times. We have to rely on dealers as the primary source of support for the products they sell since we are far away and can not personally look at or help fix boats in question. It is frustrating for sure when they do not follow up or have as much knowledge as they could.
Quote:
the dealer told me that you wouldn’t respond to my claim for months,
I know our warranty/support guys did respond to your claim in a timely basis. They always do and within 1-3 days usually. I may have missed your topic in these forums, as I noted to Memory Maker... reading forums is not my full-time job and I'm not always able to cross-reference things going on in the forums to claims in the system... I don't handle claims personally.

I can tell you that we make a LOT of boats and the molds, being cast aluminum, do show wear and have issues from time to time. These are handcrafted products and every one will be a little different. Maybe this is what you referenced as workmanship. The warped deck is not common direct from the molds. That would be unusual. This is why warranty would have suggested storage issues being the likely culprit. Pressure up through the scuppers can cause the cockpit to rise. This should be correctable by placing weight on the floor and supporting the hull bottom away from the scuppers. Polyethylene cold flows over time and can distort but usually will go back to it's original shape when allowed.

We do want dealers to unpackage boats and set them up to be sure they are complete and allow customers to inspect. I understand your boat was not inspected at the dealership and was left in storage for a long period. This makes it harder for Hobie to take responsibility easily as storage and shipping are common sources for damage to products of all kinds.

We also see boats left on carts. Boats left of fore/aft bunks (PVC is common) running along the scupper lines. These place direct pressure on the scuppers and that, in turn, can push the deck upwards. Dents caused by heat or constant pressure are a common claim and are easily fixed: https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=35313

We have a number of FAQs related to storage: https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=21

The cover... has a one year warranty. Life span will vary depending on UV, wind and the elements. Damage at a mounted accessory point is not really the fault of the cover itself. Ask your dealer to have the warranty guys send you some patches for these areas on the new cover. That should help extend the life. Protect it from winds and secure as best as possible to avoid flapping the material. If you live in snow country, be sure the cover is not supporting loads from snow stacked on it.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:36 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:55 pm
Posts: 404
mmiller wrote:
Memory Maker... Sorry I have failed to answer your specific questions and disagree at times.

It's not about NOT hearing of defects or issues on these forums. Of course, we do. It is that we DO try to solve problems and we try hard to support our consumers. We make some very complicated molded products with innovative features... and we make a LOT of them, so of course, issues do happen. I did not say otherwise.

The 400 watt label is an industry-standard. Not something I or Hobie came up with. You would have to take that up with the NMMA or the EU.

Just because we place a logo on a product does NOT make us responsible beyond the manufacturer's stated one year warranty. We do offer (as noted in my comments) to help in cases that are suspect and we will be noting more disclaimers for the covers. Not designed for highway travel. Not designed for rail-mounted accessories left in place during storage. There is just some much canvas can stand with unintended loads and wear/pressure points. Dannu is now providing reinforcement patches for people who don't want to remove accessories. We also continue to work with them to be sure the materials are as good as possible for the price point.

Understand that I don't always have the time to dig into obscure questions or issues raised here and I don't get to read every post or get involved in every topic. That is just not possible. I miss a lot I am sure. You do see my name a lot as I am the most active (13,000+ Posts). I also cover each and every topic and product line, when I can and I answer forums questions more due to my passion for helping people... not due to any company obligation as these are user forums... this is not a Hobie direct link to support system. The forums are public driven for the most part. Very few companies offer as much direct support as we do forums. I hear that all the time here. Matter of fact, many companies close their user forums to avoid negativity. I don't... I understand that people get frustrated at times and I try to work through the issues.

Thanks for being a loyal Hobie customer even in light of your frustrations with us. That means a lot.



Thanks for your answer. As usual, it does not address the concerns of your customers and frustrates them to the point where they won’t be buying Hobie again or by your blaming everything else instead of taking responsibility as you always do


As far as the support system ...... well Maybe this should be a direct link to the support system like just about every other company does. I’m appalled that you don’t communicate these concerns to management. You give the impression that the company doesn’t care about the existing customers but just the ones that haven’t bought yet. You make it sound as if Hobie is doing everyone a favor by having a forum. Well ....... news flash ........ every viable company has a forum and they take to heart the concerns instead of putting someone here part time to deflect concerns. Even your message is really bad :

“ this is not a Hobie direct link to support system. The forums are public driven for the most part. Very few companies offer as much direct support as we do forums. I hear that all the time here. Matter of fact, many companies close their user forums to avoid negativity. I don't... I understand that people get frustrated at times and I try to work through the issues.“

First you say that this is not a direct link to support and then you say that you do offer direct support to the forums. Then you say that manny companies close their forums because of negativity....... guess what ....... those companies don’t last long if they ignore the negativity and close it down. They are the companies that do not care about their customers. The ones that close their forums usually have someone so frustrated that they open their own forum that trashes that company. Then the company has no way to respond and their reputation is trashed. I don’t know of any company that closed their forum for negativity and I want you to name 3 if you can.

While a dealer support system may be good on paper, it is not when dealers are 1 to several hours away And it isn’t their core business ...... it actually sucks for the customer ........ but again ....... Hobie doesn’t care.

As far as the covers are concerned, they are very expensive for what you get. And you attitude about Hobie not being responsible for a product that has your name on it ........ built for you and sold by you for your products is AMAZING and just wrong. Most companies have products made by others and they take responsibility for those products. Your attitude and logic is .... well ..... unique. You would think that after selling covers for sooooo long and the troubles you have, that you would have made a better cover and put those caveats in the description long ago.

Hobie’s perception is that they only care about future sales and not their customers. They don’t fix known problems. They suggest that the customer fix them at the customer’s expense. And they deny responsibility for their own products.

I and many others had $500 in 2 covers that Hobie said was for the Pro Angler that didn’t fit. It was obvious that no one at Hobie had even tried one on the PA or they would never offer them to the public. When I brought it up here, you did nothing except give the we’re not responsible because someone else made them excuse and made a long ridiculous argument. Then when Hobie did finally make the cover to fit the PA, Hobie did NOTHING about the customers that trusted Hobie and bought the expensive junk they were originally sold.

I usually like to have professionals install things on my PA. That was until the Hobie rep told my dealer that he couldn’t install a slide for my seat because raising the seat 2 “ would make it unstable. This was embarrassing to the dealer and made it hard on me. You offered nothing when I brought it up other than excuses. Funny that the next year Hobie comes out with a seat that raised more than 2”.

That’s only 2 examples ....... there are tons more. Hobie, or maybe it’s your handling of concerns, that makes many people not trust Hobie’s products customer service.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:51 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 13572
Location: Oceanside, California
I know you too well Memory Maker. Unfortunately, nothing I am going to say is going to please you here.

You misrepresent your situation with the cover. You bought a generic fit Danuu cover that was all there was at the time... that would cover a PA. It did cover the PA. We later came out with a Danuu custom-fit model.

I have always been known to be a consumer advocate here. That does not mean I can do everything you ask.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:25 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:55 pm
Posts: 404
[quote="mmiller"]I know you too well Memory Maker. Unfortunately, nothing I am going to say is going to please you here.

You misrepresent your situation with the cover. You bought a generic fit Danuu cover that was all there was at the time... that would cover a PA. It did cover the PA. We later came out with a Danuu custom-fit model.

I have always been known to be a consumer advocate here. That does not mean I can do everything you ask.[/quote

THERE YOU GO AGAIN !!! You REALLY twist the truth dude. Thanks for proving my points.

It was 2 covers that had the Hobie logo on it, sold by Hobie and NOT the other company. It was listed on the Hobie site as the cover for the PA. It only came down 4” or less over the sides. The straps would not reach completely under the the PA. You kept saying that it was not Hobie’s responsibility and we had a long conversation here about it. I believe you may have deleted it because I could not find it later when I tried to show someone your ridiculous claims. You had me call the other company to get some clips so I could buy my own straps to attach it. Later, Hobie came out with a cover that FINALLY fit but Hobie refused to give a trade in or discount to the customers that were ripped off by the false advertising (Hobie listed as fitting the PA) and their mistake. If it was generic then why did it have HOBIE printed on it. If it was generic then why did Hobie sell it on their site instead of referring customers to the other company’s site?

You seem to confuse company service with customer service because stretching the truth to the breaking point, telling customers basically to deal with it is not customer service. Right here you have 2 different people basically saying the same thing and you gave no solutions but pointed out that there is no link between Hobie Service and this forum and this is just a user driven forum generously given to us by Hobie that we should be eternally grateful because it is just you that sometimes monitor the forum if and when you get chance. Yeah ........ sounds like Hobie really cares.

I’ll see if I can find that thread since you have challenged my integrity. Then we will see who misrepresented the facts and it won’t be me.

Well ....... as expected, our conversation is not there. However, there are several of you saying that the Danuu cover for the Hobie IS for highway travel.

You’ve made my points very clearly so I don’t need to further this discussion. Obviously, you will continue to argue, distort the truth, blame others and leave the customer to figure something out after they have spent their money. I’m not sure if this is Hobie’s attitude or just yours. Bottom line, Hobie does sell a lot but many of their products are not well tested or designed and the customer is left feeling abandoned. Just look up threads concerning the scupper carts, covers, Baitwell and others. Hobie was pretty good at replacing hulls that cracked but they have more hull failures than I have seen from other brands too. Most of that was in the past though.

Nuff said !!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
© Hobie Cat Company. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group