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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:13 pm 
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Hello folks!

Never in my dreams, or at least this quickly, would I find myself with two Hobie MD yaks. I picked up a old custom farm 4X8 utility trailer a year ago that I have initially restored and continue to do so as just a utility trailer but also with the future intention of hauling a fishing yak at miniumum or 2-3 yaks total. I know 4X8 is small but the tounge has a good amount of length and the trailer is built like a tank. Anyway, the other day, since I have a Craigslist phone app that alerts on Hobie Pro Angler instantly, I saw a "moving sale" post with a bunch of shoes and purses on the first featured image. Of course I thought why in the world would I see this on a search query for Hobie Pro Angler? Well turned out that several images further down in the post they were selling a 14PA and a 13 Revo ($1300/$800 respectfully). I called, we talked, and settled on $1800 for both if I came right away with the cash. The rest I guess is history. Now I'm in the mode of slowly cleaning up this "well-used" and unfortunately a little more UV exposed set of yaks. My first order of business is to clean up and rebuild the MDs. So for now I have a few questions that I tried searching here but couldn't find:

1. The serial number area of both yaks seems odd to me where the SN was just etched in...is this normal? Also, how do I date the yaks based on SN?
2. Per the attached images of my MD's one has V2 on a piece I am probably calling wrong and the other it doesn't. This piece is a barrel-shaped sprocket cowling. I just want to confirm that both are V2s so I can reference diagrams correctly and buy parts correctly.
3. Speaking of #2 I'm on the lookout for expanded drawings of each yak to include the MD's (honestly I haven't searched this one)
4. Three of the 4 masts on the MD's are bent. I plan to buy new fins/flippers and really I'm unsure if I really need to get the "speed fins". This being said, has anyone made their own masts from SS? I measured the diameter at 9/32nd inch. If I had this size SS rod I could certainly just tap (die) my own and slot/key the other end. My local metals 4 u supplier only has 1/4 and 5/16" they don't sell the interim 9/32nd inch.
5. Also speaking of #4, does anyone know the SS alloy used? 302/304 etc. etc.?

That's it for now, I was kind of hoping to see more "sticky" threads with the major FAQ's and help items. I want find out more about best on-line sources price/shipping/support to buy, top modifications, top maintenance items, etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:03 pm 
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Roy,

Those look like V2 drives. They need a good cleaning and lubrication. If the masts are still good, all you need is some new fins. The Hobie serial numbers are etched on the hulls at the factory. Usually the year is the last 2 digits. If the Pro Angler has the steering on a molded in circular column, then it's either a 2011 or a 2012 model. if it has the black inserts inside the scupper holes, it's a 2012 model. Not up completely on the Outback history. Very familiar with the Pro Angler.

Welcome to the Hobie family and the addiction.

Steve

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Hi Roy and congratulations on your new purchases! That's quite an amazing set of Turbofins you have. They look like they were excavated from the days of the Ancient Mariner!
niswanger wrote:
1. The serial number area of both yaks seems odd to me where the SN was just etched in...is this normal? Also, how do I date the yaks based on SN?
Yes, it's normal. Last 2 digits determine model year. It looks like your Revo is an 2007 or 2008 and the PA is around 2010 to 2012.
Quote:
2. Per the attached images of my MD's one has V2 on a piece I am probably calling wrong and the other it doesn't. This piece is a barrel-shaped sprocket cowling. I just want to confirm that both are V2s so I can reference diagrams correctly and buy parts correctly.
You do have a V-2 and a V-1 Drive. The V-2 has Micky Mouse shaped ears for drums and a brass insert in the sprocket where the mast (SS rod) screws in.
Image

The cable/chains are also a different length. The V-2 is a much more robust Drive.
Quote:
3. Speaking of #2 I'm on the lookout for expanded drawings of each yak to include the MD's (honestly I haven't searched this one)
Try downloading an owners manual from the Hobie website.
Quote:
4. Three of the 4 masts on the MD's are bent. I plan to buy new fins/flippers and really I'm unsure if I really need to get the "speed fins". This being said, has anyone made their own masts from SS?
[/quote]Save yourself some money by straightening your existing masts. You don't even have to detach them. I use a 3/8" ID pipe with a sleeve, but most people just do it by hand.
Image

Your V-2 masts are threaded whereas the V-1s are not. Here you can see the 2 on the right are V-2 and the 2 on the left are V-1.
Image

You'll notice Hobie uses a custom thread on their masts so doing your own might not be worth the effort.
Image

I recommend you clean up and rebuild the V-2 Drive first and get a new set of Turbos to replace your museum set with the $ you saved by straightening those masts. The PA is a heavier boat and came with Turbos to move it along. You can rebuild your V-1 Drive or update it to V-2 as you desire. Once you have tried Turbos on the other Drive, you can decide what fins you want on your Revo. Both Drives, of course, will work in either boat. BTW, all threads should be secured with your new friend, Loctite Blue (not red). This applies especially to your threaded masts and the Allenhead screw on the V-1 sprocket.

Use the search feature to look up "cam columns" so you can inspect them and possibly reinforce them on your Revo. 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:28 pm 
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SRAces wrote:
Roy,

Those look like V2 drives. They need a good cleaning and lubrication. If the masts are still good, all you need is some new fins. The Hobie serial numbers are etched on the hulls at the factory. Usually the year is the last 2 digits. If the Pro Angler has the steering on a molded in circular column, then it's either a 2011 or a 2012 model. if it has the black inserts inside the scupper holes, it's a 2012 model. Not up completely on the Outback history. Very familiar with the Pro Angler.


Steve, thank you for the reply, I can tell I will have a long relationship with this place. For starters, I don't mind sharing my ideas and DIY things from my youtube channel and the like. The past 10 years have been mostly scouting relating stuff and/or photography. I will take and contribute...the mutual benefit of places like this. Appreciate your help.

My PA's last two digits is 11 and the Revo is 08. Hard to believe that Revo is 10 years old.

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Roy Niswanger


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:42 pm 
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Roadrunner wrote:
Hi Roy and congratulations on your new purchases! That's quite an amazing set of Turbofins you have. They look like they were excavated from the days of the Ancient Mariner!
YUP, but I'll clean then up like new. Only areas I see that need replacement are the fins.


Roadrunner wrote:
You do have a V-2 and a V-1 Drive. The V-2 has Micky Mouse shaped ears for drums and a brass insert in the sprocket where the mast (SS rod) screws in.
Awesome thank you for the clarification, just seeing them for the first time and noticing one with V2 on it and the other not having it they look the same, but now that you mention it, I do see subtle differences.

Roadrunner wrote:
Save yourself some money by straightening your existing masts. You don't even have to detach them. I use a 3/8" ID pipe with a sleeve, but most people just do it by hand.
Humm...looks like some thick-walled SS 3/8" ID and then a brass sleeve. What's the process here, get the pipe and sleeve to be longer than the SS mast and tap it onto the mast with a hammer until it straightens out the mast? Any issues with binding and not being able to remove the straightening tubes?

Roadrunner wrote:
You'll notice Hobie uses a custom thread on their masts so doing your own might not be worth the effort.
Oh boy you're right...it's like ACME thread, don't have a die for that but I bet with a lot of fussing my previously owned mini machine lathe could have cut them :)

Roadrunner wrote:
I recommend you clean up and rebuild the V-2 Drive first and get a new set of Turbos to replace your museum set with the $ you saved by straightening those masts. The PA is a heavier boat and came with Turbos to move it along. You can rebuild your V-1 Drive or update it to V-2 as you desire. Once you have tried Turbos on the other Drive, you can decide what fins you want on your Revo. Both Drives, of course, will work in either boat. BTW, all threads should be secured with your new friend, Loctite Blue (not red). This applies especially to your threaded masts and the Allenhead screw on the V-1 sprocket.

Use the search feature to look up "cam columns" so you can inspect them and possibly reinforce them on your Revo. 8)
Roger that on all fronts.
New question, any on-line retailers suggested or maybe ones not to use? I can say I will need to replace a few items like the fins on the drives, these rubber transom bumpers, rudder control lines, etc.

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Roy Niswanger


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:33 pm 
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niswanger wrote:
Humm...looks like some thick-walled SS 3/8" ID and then a brass sleeve. What's the process here, get the pipe and sleeve to be longer than the SS mast and tap it onto the mast with a hammer until it straightens out the mast? Any issues with binding and not being able to remove the straightening tubes?
The masts tend to bend near the base and straight back. Slide your sleeve on (if you have one) until it starts to bind. Slide your pipe (mine is 2' long for good leverage) to where it starts to bind (about the same depth). Gently bend forward. Now you should be able to go further. Proceed until you get to the base. No binding, no hammering. To position the Drive for mast straightening, balance it on its nose on a low bench with one hand on the pedals against the bench and the other on your bar. Press down using your weight while keeping the Drive nose down. You can adjust the pedal pin positions to make it easier.

When done, the masts should be parallel and should center up pretty close with the pedals even. If off by more than a few degrees laterally, you can recenter using the cable nuts.

There are 3 cables -- idler, front sprocket and rear sprocket. Adjust in order from front to rear so that you have about 1/8" squeeze at the midpoint of the idler and front cable, and 3/16" on the rear cable. Any tighter and you're creating unnecessary friction prematurely soaking up your thrust and wearing on the Drive.

There are 3 shafts -- idler, drum and sprocket. They should be cleaned and lubed with a good MARINE grease. All other moving surfaces a light oil. I like Breakfree.
Quote:
New question, any on-line retailers suggested or maybe ones not to use? I can say I will need to replace a few items like the fins on the drives, these rubber transom bumpers, rudder control lines, etc.
I don't know of any discount sources. Your local dealer is usually a good person to cultivate a relationship with -- can sometimes be a good resource and you may position yourself well for any future purchases once you establish a relationship. Depends on the dealer. Stop by and check em out. 8)

PS: Another good source for parts and nomenclature is the online Hobie Parts and Accessories Catalog. Near the back are the Drive and boat parts. Also look at the sales info for your current year models. You can see the similarities and differences.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:02 pm 
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Thanks Roadrunner, I understand your tube/sleeve concept. I'm currently applying some pb blaster with an acid brush and would prefer to torque/bend off the unit. I'll see how that goes.

I have ACK (Austin Canoe and Kayak) just up the road 15 minutes from me. :)

Just thought of a new question...are V1/V2 speed fins interchangeable (fins, not the SS masts)?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:17 pm 
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I removed one SS mast from the V2 but the other one is now spinning the brass insert. Bummer, I guess I should just leave that one in and try to bend it back straight. I believe this is called a sprocket, and so far I can't find any that say V2 sprocket, I only see these GT Sprockets: https://www.austinkayak.com/products/16 ... rings.html

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:18 pm 
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niswanger wrote:
I guess I should just leave that one in and try to bend it back straight. I believe this is called a sprocket, and so far I can't find any that say V2 sprocket, I only see these GT Sprockets
Since you are disassembling the Drive anyway for cleaning and lube, I recommend you get a pair of GT sprockets (or you might end up losing your mast and fin) -- interchangeable with V-2 and supersedes it. Now that you're doing this, examine your sprocket shaft. If you find that it is worn on the bottom half, no need to buy a new one. Flip it so the unworn side is down for a better wear-in for your new sprocket bearings. Don't overtighten the grub screw -- snug only or you might have to buy a new spine next. Don't forget the Loctite. 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:56 am 
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Some more pointers about the drives, has to do with the very expensive cables, and trying to get them to last longer.
The cables are stainless steel made up of 10-12 or so individual strands of wire. As the cable rotates around the pulleys it’s very important for each strand of the cable to experience the same force. This involves the cable strands being able to slide against each other in order to equalize the load across all the individual strands. This is similar to how cable bridges are supported, (stress/load distributed over hundreds of wires, each taking it’s fair share of the load).
Once water (especially salt water) penetrates inside the cable, ( via wicking) surface rust develops around each cable strand, basically causing the strands to stick together, ( unable to breath and flex independently as load varies).
Whenever I install new cables I soak the exposed cable ends with clear coat spray paint. I then put a coat of grease over the exposed cable end. The purpose is to prevent water from penetrating into the cable, (under the plastic sheath).
If you do this the cables should last almost indefinately.
If this was neglected when the cable was new, and water was allowed to penetrate into the cables, now it double important to lubricate those cables after every use with water displacing lubricants, (ie like WD40, etc). Otherwise the strands start binding against each other, once one strand breaks, then it’s a gradual chain of events till the cable fails.
We use the heck out of our mirage drives, (way more than most), and usually in salt water, ( but not always). Anyone who has had to replace those cables knows how expensive they are. Unless you want to budget a hundred bucks a year for replacement cables, it’s not a bad idea to take care of them.
Just sharin our experience over many years of hard use.
FE


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:23 am 
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Roadrunner wrote:
niswanger wrote:
I guess I should just leave that one in and try to bend it back straight. I believe this is called a sprocket, and so far I can't find any that say V2 sprocket, I only see these GT Sprockets
Since you are disassembling the Drive anyway for cleaning and lube, I recommend you get a pair of GT sprockets (or you might end up losing your mast and fin) -- interchangeable with V-2 and supersedes it. Now that you're doing this, examine your sprocket shaft. If you find that it is worn on the bottom half, no need to buy a new one. Flip it so the unworn side is down for a better wear-in for your new sprocket bearings. Don't overtighten the grub screw -- snug only or you might have to buy a new spine next. Don't forget the Loctite. 8)
Thanks again Roadrunner, I should really find the exploded diagrams first before coming here. I had a feeling the the GTs are simply the latest incarnation of the sprockets. I presume they would also work on the V1 MD assembly that I have too? I've checked a few places for exploded diagrams to reference the "grub" screw you mention...haven't found it yet. My guess is that it may be the trailing edge fin brass knurled nut? Regardless, I'm slowing working on these and I'm not at all concerned about breaking them down completely because as you said they do look like they are from the days of an Ancient Mariner.

I have found this brochure: https://static.hobiecat.com/digital_ass ... 130724.pdf

Also, searching this forum I only found this mentioned, a user said to check out page 36 and again it's just like the pdf I posted above: https://static.hobiecat.com/2010_archiv ... 1531169193

I really want to find an exploded diagram with part numbers referenced for the V1/2/and newer models.

fusioneng wrote:
Once water (especially salt water) penetrates inside the cable, ( via wicking) surface rust develops around each cable strand, basically causing the strands to stick together, ( unable to breath and flex independently as load varies).
Whenever I install new cables I soak the exposed cable ends with clear coat spray paint. I then put a coat of grease over the exposed cable end. The purpose is to prevent water from penetrating into the cable, (under the plastic sheath). If you do this the cables should last almost indefinitely.
Thank you fusioneng, makes sense coming from an engineering background myself. I'm certain these drives are in need of some serious attention. I just hope they last me several more years of very light use.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:34 pm 
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You may not find an exploded diagram. Your links will have to do. Here are a few of the basics to get you started (some you already know):
Image

1. Drum shaft
2. Spine
3. Allenhead "grub" screw
4. Sprocket
5. Sprocket cover
6. Clew outhaul
7. Idler pulley
8. Allenhead wrench

Yes, your V-1 can also be upgraded to GT.

The knurled nut on the fin is the clew outhaul adjustment. Looser is easier to pedal and more efficient. 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:49 pm 
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Roadrunner wrote:
You may not find an exploded diagram. Your links will have to do. Here are a few of the basics to get you started (some you already know):

1. Drum shaft
2. Spine
3. Allenhead "grub" screw
4. Sprocket
5. Sprocket cover
6. Clew outhaul
7. Idler pulley
8. Allenhead wrench

Yes, your V-1 can also be upgraded to GT.

The knurled nut on the fin is the clew outhaul adjustment. Looser is easier to pedal and more efficient. 8)


Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'll eventually get to breaking these down and replacing the sprockets and fins at minimum. For now I just want to understand as much as possible before doing so. I also plan to take these to ACK here in Austin to have then consult with me as well. I'll end up buying parts from them as well.

More minor questions:

1. There's another grub screw (what I would call a set screw) on the idler pulley. Any concerns there (torque specs etc)?
2. I'm not following the "don't over-tighten the grub screw or I'll break my spine. On one hand it makes sense because it must put undue stress on the spine, but it seems to me the sprockets simply spin on the sprocket bearing (shaft). Seems it should only serve to keep the bearing/shaft in place. Does the bearing/shaft turn? Same goes for the idler pulley, seems it only spins on a bearing hub that is stationary?
3. So looser outhaul adjustment nut is easier and more efficient...this because there's more natural flex on the trailing edge of the fin?
4. Finally, a question for fusioneng, the soak and penetrate drive cables? My cables are sheathed about 90% or more. Is he just suggesting seal and grease this small section between the end of the sheath and the crimped terminal?

Really surprised there isn't an exploded diagram from Hobie?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:12 pm 
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Yes just the ends with the clear coat, but only on new cables, before using them. Old cables that have been used, all you can do is just oil often with stuff like wd40). The grease is probably overkill, I go thru a lot of those cables, just trying to make them last.
We spray everything down often, the drives seem to last longer if you clean and lubricate them regularly, ( including those cable ends).
But then again I like and use the flow-90, (eclipse) fins, which are much harder on the drives, ( probably not recommended).
FE


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:41 pm 
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niswanger wrote:

1. There's another grub screw (what I would call a set screw) on the idler pulley. Any concerns there (torque specs etc)?
2. I'm not following the "don't over-tighten the grub screw or I'll break my spine. On one hand it makes sense because it must put undue stress on the spine, but it seems to me the sprockets simply spin on the sprocket bearing (shaft). Seems it should only serve to keep the bearing/shaft in place. Does the bearing/shaft turn? Same goes for the idler pulley, seems it only spins on a bearing hub that is stationary?
3. So looser outhaul adjustment nut is easier and more efficient...this because there's more natural flex on the trailing edge of the fin?
4. Finally, a question for fusioneng, the soak and penetrate drive cables? My cables are sheathed about 90% or more. Is he just suggesting seal and grease this small section between the end of the sheath and the crimped terminal?
Maybe I should write a book :lol: :lol:

1. Same purpose. They both lock the shaft in place.
2. Over-tighten the sprocket shaft screw and it puts too much pressure on the back side of the spine -- will crack it, as some have unhappily discovered. The screw fits in a slot and only needs to touch it to lock it in position.
3. Close enough. 8)


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