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And they walked away!!!
http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=45355		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Cork Guy [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  And they walked away!!!
We need a good Crash, Capsize, Pitchpole thread.
How about we start with this one :shock: :o :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drgglIebuQY

More about this pitchpole
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Te ... 85331.html

Corkguy H18
Author:  jclarkdawe [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: And they walked away!!!
Having just capsized my Hobie 16 and not being able to right it, this incident is of interest to me. First off, they did the important thing right. Everybody walked away.

First mistake was they didn't think this could happen. Having not thought through getting my cat up, I know this was one of my problems. But I'm wondering if they hadn't thought about how to get their boat up. And I'm wondering if they're doing some serious thinking on this subject now. Not only is eight million dollars of boat toast, they don't have a boat for several months. So I'm sort of hoping they invest some of their money into figuring out systems on how to right a cat or a trimaran that capsizes. Because although the scale is vastly different, they've got a lot more resources then the rest of us, but couldn't figure it out.

Question whether the righting bucket (maybe with the model from the catalog who shows off plenty of skin but isn't wearing a life jacket) would have worked. Is the best way to right a cat just adding more weight, same as a bigger hammer will solve more problems? Second part of this question is whether the shroud extender idea would work? Getting the high hull on the right side of the weight equation seems like a good idea.

I'm guessing that getting a rope over the high hull and pulling while lifting the mast didn't work. I'm further guessing this was due to the weight and wave conditions.

Obviously, the net result was they didn't come up with a successful idea. Question is whether there was one, and whether they're going to figure out something better that will help the rest of us.

Next question is whether, at some point, you do better dumping the rigging and mast overboard. Would they have done better to do this, and tow the hulls in a turtle position? I noticed the boat turtled because of the failure of the mast to survive the stress of being capsized. If you capsize in surf, for instance, do you do better to dump the mast and save the hull (providing you can do this safely)?

Ultimately I'm wondering, with their discovery of the extent of the problem, whether some serious study is going to be done with capsizing. Maybe some work with computer simulations. Oracle has the money, and it's clear that brute strength doesn't always work. Of course, when we're out in our smaller cats, not weighing enough to right our cats, it's also clear that brute strength doesn't work all the time for us, either.

It's going to be interesting seeing what comes from this.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
Author:  jonh [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: And they walked away!!!
Spithiils boat (the AC 45) previously pitchpoled close after the start of a race and it was righted before the other boats were far off.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLX1XPCQodk[/youtube]

They got a DNF on that race but competed in the second (and won I think). So there is a tried method of righting the 45s and I'm sure for the 72s too. For some reason this time something or some number of things conspired against them. Probably the combination of wind and tide. [edit: just read this is the first of the AC72s to go over, so there must be some lessons yet to learn]
Author:  John Lunn [ Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: And they walked away!!!
Why were the daggers down?
There are a number of website links, and all of them show this great catamaran turning to bear away in 25 knots of wind....
this was an expensive training run.

Glad everyone is safe.

Jim, have you searched on the Forum re capsize recovery? H16's are easy, compared with bigger and heavier cats...a lot has to do with practice and technique. Get into some warm weather, in sheltered conditions and practice. Most of us can solo right a H16 or H17, H18/20/Tiger is another story.
Author:  Sail Revolution [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: And they walked away!!!
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Author:  jonh [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: And they walked away!!!
Amazing photos Jeremy - thanks for sharing your work here.
Were you around for the AC72 incident as well?

I wonder what either one sounded like up close.
Author:  OlderBowman [ Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: And they walked away!!!
from the looks of it, the wing on the AC72 is awfully tall, compared to the amount of bouyancy up front in the hulls, surely a trade off between wave piercing speed and stability. they bore off just a bit in 25 kts. of breeze and immediately buried the bows. notice how slow she rolled over?
Author:  fastcat [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: And they walked away!!!
There are no AC72s depicted. All you see are the AC45s. Still awsome
Author:  SNovak [ Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: And they walked away!!!
fastcat wrote:
There are no AC72s depicted. All you see are the AC45s. Still awsome

The original posting was about an AC72.
Author:  Tim H16 [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: And they walked away!!!
My favorite pitchpole video is of:
NISSAN HOBIE CAT PRO TEAM SUR LE CANAL DES SAINTES 2005

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJQqRZvniRY&playnext=1&list=PL1AE4428C264E5DE5&feature=results_video
Author:  presto13031 [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: And they walked away!!!
Tim H16 wrote:
My favorite pitchpole video is of:
NISSAN HOBIE CAT PRO TEAM SUR LE CANAL DES SAINTES 2005

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJQqRZvniRY&playnext=1&list=PL1AE4428C264E5DE5&feature=results_video

What is the backstory on this?
Author:  Tim H16 [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: And they walked away!!!
Jeff,

All I know of this is what was in the video.

I appears that the canal was only a couple of feet deep since both bows also hit the bottom causing a great cartwheel type of pitchpole.

From my own experience, it is not good for your boat having a pitchpole in shallow water. A couple of years ago I was on an impressive screaming broad reach toward the shore while trying my best to keep my leeward bow above the surface when a rudder hit the bottom and it was enough to pivot the bow down and cause a pitchpole. It would not have been so bad if the leeward bow hadn't hit the bottom and caused the boat to cartwheel forward (not quite as quickly as in the video). My neighbors along the shore were impressed. After uprighting the boat I noticed the fiberglass boots around two of my pylons had cracks in them so that kept my boat out of service for a few days.
Author:  fastcat [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: And they walked away!!!
SNovak, thanks, I missed that. The 72's look almost exactly like the 45s, just scaled up.
Author:  hobiesrock [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: And they walked away!!!
presto13031 wrote:
Tim H16 wrote:
My favorite pitchpole video is of:
NISSAN HOBIE CAT PRO TEAM SUR LE CANAL DES SAINTES 2005

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJQqRZvniRY&playnext=1&list=PL1AE4428C264E5DE5&feature=results_video

What is the backstory on this?


That is one of the area that they have speed trials I believe. A kite boarder currently holds the record speed I think... 64mph!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtFxstw9Zjo[/youtube]
Author:  SNovak [ Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: And they walked away!!!
Oracle's media person has put out a video from that day that's worth a watch:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRW21FubyY4[/youtube]
you can see how heartbroken most of the crew is...

And while we're on the subject of "insanely fast, foiling multihulls", this boat is currently gearing up to go after the Transpac (LA-Honolulu, currently 4d19h) record next year:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFxHUnaNIXw[/youtube]
Makes our Hobies look downright sedate!
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