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Surf City Not a Dealer?
http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=46294		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  mmiller [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Surf City Not a Dealer?
I don't know the exact rule on that, but believe it is a minimum freight they are allowed to advertise.

The bigger issues for a consumer is dealing with a product sight-unseen, that has to be shipped LTL and has a high probability of freight damage. Then no dealer support for service issues. Hobie dealers are not required to service a product that is not sold by them... they are independent businesses. They would do it as a service. So, there are more obstacles to buying via the internet than just the cost of freight.
Author:  ronholm [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Surf City Not a Dealer?
mmiller wrote:

We do what we can to protect dealers from outside interference by having some "rules". This helps to keep the lights on in your local dealership. If we had no controls at all we "might" see a spike in sales... then there would be a big drop in actual dealers. We have seen that scenario play out in far to many other businesses.



This is true.


Healthy competition without restricting creativity, encouraging an entrepreneurial spirit without causing to much infighting.


The challenge is making sure your entrepreneurs have room to run within your rule set. And that your beach bums don't get mistaken for real producers and vice-versa.
Author:  gino [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Surf City Not a Dealer?
what a shame. Hobie catamarans are available in only 3 stores in all of California. how many people live in California? the birthplace of Hobie. most likely the state with the most Hobie cats sold the last 40 yrs. year round sailing weather. how many miles of coastline? how many lakes? colorado river. SF bay.

and now there is a legit Hobie lifer with a desire to open a dealer and he is denied? Brilliant.

"but hey wait - check out our kayak line man, check out the fishing stuff, its rad, even lumber yards sell hobie kayaks, they are so hip, everybody is doing it"
Author:  passingwind [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Surf City Not a Dealer?
mmiller wrote:
Hobie dealers are not required to service a product that is not sold by them... they are independent businesses. They would do it as a service. So, there are more obstacles to buying via the internet than just the cost of freight.


Thats a nice policy. I spend a crapload of money on a cat and move to a new location and i need to say a pray he will do my warranty work?

Just about every other boat i have bought requires the dealer to service the boat, i just may not be priority.
Author:  mmiller [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Surf City Not a Dealer?
As noted... there are a lot of considerations when becoming a dealer.

Quote:
Thats a nice policy. I spend a crap load of money on a cat and move to a new location and i need to say a pray he will do my warranty work?


That is not Hobie Cat policy... The Factory encourages all dealers to provide service and would not deny warranty because of a move or internet sale.

What is the bigger issue ... and the point of my comment which was related to a question about kayak purchases via the internet ... is about internet sales... where a consumer buys at a discount from a distant supplier and then thinks they can demand support from a local re-seller. That is a reality check. We do not have factory owned stores. As I said... most would do it as a service, being good business people and try to earn your business.
Author:  rehmbo [ Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Surf City Not a Dealer?
Regarding internet sales, this is no different than the consumer electronics (CE) business. There are grey-market guys that purchase from less-than-creditable distributers and then flip it on ebay for 2% net. Nearly every CE company I know will not honor warranty for purchases through these channels (be careful of Amazon as well). The CE companies try like crazy to police this, but its like playing whack-a-mole.

For all the reasons Matt stated, the local dealer is the way to go for proper parts & warranty. I understand and respect their decision to protect and carefully manage them.
Author:  Sail Revolution [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Surf City Not a Dealer?
Hey all,

Matt, Can you please change my forum name to Sail Revolution, and give Mikey the SC Catamarans name if he wants it.

I just stumbled across this thread, and the following is all utter unfounded speculation and opinion. Even though I still hold the Surf City forum name, I no longer own, nor am affiliated in any way with the business. I started Surf City Catamarans in 2002, which was born out of one of the oldest standing Hobie dealers, O'neill Yacht Center.

Mikey is a great guy, you'd think that Hobie would want such an energetic advocate, and I'm not sure why they denied him the dealership. What I can say is that the other somewhat active dealer and I never really got along. I worked so hard from 1998 until I sold the business 2011 to work together with him for the benefit of catamaran sailing on the West Coast, and he was never ever receptive. I don't know, but I sure can imagine his whiny phone calls to Hobie in my head about Mikey becoming a dealer.

Just to put a few rumors to rest here, and avoid the red herring arguments that have been flooding this thread.

1)Mikey has a sweet retail location right in the SC Harbor. Way better than O'neills or the original Surf City ever had.

2) Mikey is ready to purchase an initial order.

3) Mikey is a Hobie fanatic, and has been for years!

4) The nearest dealer to Santa Cruz is 125 miles, and 4 counties away.

There are many reasons that I decided to get out of the business: waning sales, too much work for very little return, difficult quality control and warranty scenarios, hardships getting parts for the European boats, etc, etc. The dealers are the front line. You'd think that Hobie would want some new enthusiasm in NorCal, especially when it's basically a turn key operation.

I am an advocate of Mikey taking up the Surf City torch! I wrote everything here without consulting him. This is my opinion! I'm sure that there's more to the story as to why he was denied the dealership...

Good luck, Mikey!
Author:  Bacho [ Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Surf City Not a Dealer?
I disagree, and would like to point out that many states require sales taxes be paid for internet purchases from another state.


dregsfan wrote:
To me it would be fairer for local dealers to have Mega internet sellers like Austin be required to charge a flat 10% shipping on Hobie kayaks, instead of $149. This would level the field with dealers having to collect sales taxes, which range from 7 to 10% and up.
Author:  wscotterwin [ Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Surf City Not a Dealer?
Bacho wrote:
I am an advocate of Mikey taking up the Surf City torch!


+1
Author:  aussiebob [ Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Surf City Not a Dealer?
+2
Author:  Tom King [ Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Surf City Not a Dealer?
I enjoyed the six years I was a dealer back at the end of the heyday in the '80s....that is, all but the loosing money part. If I won the lottery, I wouldn't mind doing it again, as long as the money lasted.
Author:  rssailor [ Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Surf City Not a Dealer?
With the closing of Inland Sails as an active Hobie dealer in Sacramento, Hobie Cat might want to revist the issue of reinstating Surf City Catamarans as a Hobie Dealer. Mikey provides top notch customer service and support for all the boats and products he sells. I'm a happy customer of his and will remain so.
Ryan Schofeild H20 #680
Author:  turbofan [ Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Surf City Not a Dealer?
Matt, I know this is an old thread, and (kind of) a west-coast thread! I am curious. What are the requirements for stocking dealers as far as parts? My nearest dealer, who I have admittedly haven't visited very recently, seems to stock very little in the parts arena, and is very hit or miss as far as product knowledge- I guess due to the basically seasonal nature of their business.Often, whoever orders for them seems to have little understanding of the boats. They seem to stock plenty of upgrade stuff but few of the parts which wear or break or simply get "misplaced"! As far as I can see, they don't exactly have a showroom of new sailboats beyond their rentals, either. I write this as I have just completed an online order to a dealer in my former area of residence who I know stocks a full array of parts and will understand what I want as well as have the parts IN STOCK. The parts will be delivered to my door, sans sales tax and with no inflated delivery or handling charge, as opposed to my driving a considerable distance for something likely not stocked anyway! If my nearest dealer stocked more parts, I would gladly make the drive and patronize them! I think you should encourage internet sales as well as assure that dealers keep a suitable array of replacement parts. If things were stocked, I wouldn't be as inclined to make an internet purchase.


Thanks, Dave
Author:  mmiller [ Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Surf City Not a Dealer?
There is no minimum requirement on parts inventory. They do have to sell boats to be a dealer and we don't have parts-only dealers. The only way we can encourage them to stock parts is to charge to ship direct to their customers. We don't want to be their internet sales warehouse hub. They should have basics on hand for sure, but the sailing market has suffered significant reduction since the 80's. They also have lost a lot of the skilled people over the years. It is difficult for dealers in remote locations to invest a lot of money in slow moving inventory... especially when other dealers have gotten savvy about internet sales and poach their customers.
Author:  turbofan [ Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Surf City Not a Dealer?
You make a valid point about internet sales. Also, I certainly realize that sailing generally has become less popular- used to be a lot more cats around here than there are now. Guess sailing is a little more difficult than video games! :D . I can certainly understand HC's not wanting to be a fullfillment hub for their dealers! I think, as far as dealers stocking parts versus losing sales to the internet, it's kind of a circular thing- if my dealer doesn't stock the parts, why would I pay shipping AND sales tax to order through them, when I can order from a dealer who stocks the parts, pay only shipping AND have the parts more quickly. While I can see the reasoning behind not carrying a large slow-moving inventory, it seems to me that they shoot themselves in the foot and drive internet sales by not wholeheartedly supporting the products they sell! Just my two cents.
All that said, I'm a Hobie sailor to the core, and so long as I can keep my boats going, I'll probably be sailing them till I croak! Glad I chose Hobie so many years ago- they're great, well- built boats. I'm still sailing my '83 16, which I bought new and was my second Hobie!

Thanks, Dave
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