H21 SC issues

I need some help and advice before I destroy my boat, or kill myself or others. I'm new to sailing and just bought this boat...which was in excellent condition, (garage kept and never been beached) before I got a hold of it.
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Twice now I've had the head of the sail draw itself down from the top of the mast and pull out of the aluminum luff track. The first time this happened we beached the boat, laid it over on its side, loosen'd the shroud lines, and fixed it. Yesterday when attempting the same action, things got ugly. While on it's side the mast decided to pop free from its base and drove itself through the tramp and holed the hull as the cat turtled. Pretty helpless feeling to watch this and are powerless to stop it. It's also not a good thing when you're miles from home and have two hours of day light left.

So, what in the hell am I doing wrong? When you step the mast on the SC you need to loosen the shroud lines, and are supposed to do so when righting. As it is now I'm deathly afraid of ever loosening them again. How much is too much, or what it the right amount?

Do I need to buy a new luff track? The old aluminum one appears to be in good shape, but I can't rule it out. I replaced the halyard with a low stretch line after the first incident thinking that was the culprit. What else...not enough downhaul force? Bad track? Worn sail? The sail is in really good shape, so I don't think that's the issue.

Lastly, how do I fix the hole? It's in the inside left hull under the cabin. I say there is a hole...I mean it feels like it, being very soft to the touch. Oddly, the next morning when I pulled the drain plug the hull was pressurized. How or why that was I'm clueless.

So, do I rotozip the hole and deeply dented area next to it, use damp rid, heat or other means to dry it out? I might be able to rig up a computer CPU fan to blow into the hole...it'd be about the right diameter, I think. BTW, the boat is pitched at an up angle and no water came out of the drain, but I'm not sure how that system works.

I feel like I need to reinforce the damaged area, and I don't know the accepted practice is. Can I take a small foam plate load up a couple of layers of cloth and resin, put a draw string in the middle, curl it through the hole and pull it tight against the inner wall?? Finish by filling the area with filler and shoot gel coat?

Sorry this sage is so long, but I'd appreciate some input so this doesn't happen again.

Thanks.

TC

I hope I understand this. Shrouds must be loose to raise or lower the mast. Unless you are using the shroud extenders you shouldn't loosen the shrouds to right the boat. Does this boat have a comptip? If yes, does it have the updated aluminum piece at the top of the comptip or is the entire luff track plastic on the tip. Sounds like the impact damage didn't break the outer skin. Do you have inspection ports that allow you to see what damage occurred inside the hull? It is possible to damage the core and inner glass and not break thru the skin, that would make the outer feel soft as you describe. You will most likely need to repair the hull from the inside, check the FAQ section of this site for repair info. I have never sailed a 21 with the front crossbar cabin on it. I would say you are loosening the shrouds too much if the boat is dismasting, should only loosen one side if necessary to get proper leverage.

Just read the 21 instructions. You have shroud extenders. Only one of them should be released to right, the one on top. That allows the deck to be lower giving a better moment for righting. Sounds like you are releasing both extenders to right. That would make the rig slack enough to dismast.

Full sail hoist is the primary issue here. You have to use the 3:1 purchase on the main halyard (with downhaul released / uhooked from the tack) to get the main tensioned to the top of the mast. If the halyard is too stretchy, replace it with a better non-stretch line to hold the main up in the metal track at the top of the mast. Same issue if you try to reef the main. Position the sail head above the reef metal section. Downhaul to tension and position the head into the metal for sailing.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Things were pretty hectic, but as best as I can recall only one of the shroud extenders were released. If I ever find myself in need again, I may opt to lengthen using the top hole only. Frankly at this point I don't trust them being even a little slack. This is becoming an expensive lesson.

I replaced the halyard with a new low stretch line after the first incident, thinking it'd fix the problem. The halyard was stretched as tight as we could get it using the 3:1 purchase...as in the video. My brother in law who is a seasoned racer, and used to have the H 21 SE model suggested I replace as much of the Halyard as possible with a S/S cable. Either that or mod the mast to add a catch to the top like other models. However, I've read the H18 is having similar issues, and it has a catch at the top, so I'm not sure if that's the best solution. Any thoughts on either of these options? I guess what bothers me is I seem to be an isolated case, and I don't want to make mods to work around the real issue.

I have no access to the back side of the hole. So would my idea of using a foam plate loaded with layers of glass and resin work to reinforce the weakened area?? I'm not looking to be a pathfinder here and create a bigger mess than I already have.

Thanks again for the help and advice.

TC

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TC

I don't think adding glass to the outside will strengthen the damage at all. Your description makes me think the core and inner glass layer are damaged, not the outer skin. May need to see a repair professional. Core damage can zipper along the skin getting larger and larger. Without access this is not going to be an easy repair. May require installation of portholes in the deck. I am not very familiar with the mainsail system but Matt Miller seemed to give a direct explanation of how to set it. I sail an 18 with squaretop main and have no problems with the luff pulling out of the aluminum piece on the comptip. Mine hooks at the top of course. On the shrouds, if you loosen the top only you'll be ok. The weight of the boat will hold the mast on because the lower shroud will be tight from the weight.

I guess I didn't make myself clear on the patch.

I intend to patch/reinforce the inside of the hull without cutting any additional ports or access holes. I was thinking I could use a previously described loaded up foam plate and flex it through the damaged hole. Using a draw string I'd pull the wet plate back against the inner hull wall. I'll have to glue a cross bar support rig to the outer skin to tie off my draw string while the wet resin sets up. Again, I've never attempted this, and am trying to bullet proof the idea before I do it, or enlist other known proven techniques to do the same. EDIT: I just found a message from Matt Miller posted in 2003 that pretty much outlines the same as above. I guess I'm good to go on this part of the repair. THANKS

However...would it be possible to mod my comp tip using a hook from a H18 or H20? I'm unfamiliar with the hardware, but am willing to try it if it's feasable.

Again, thanks for the comments and help.

TC

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TC

There are only two options as to why the sail is pulling out of the mast at the top...

A) The halyard is not holding it up into the metal track

B) The luff rope is damaged to the point it pulls out through the metal

It takes a significant effort with the 3:1 purchase on the main halyard to get the main held at the top. Be sure the downhaul system is released (unhooked) from the sail tack which will allow the sail to actually get to full hoist. Tension the halyard fully, then hook the downhaul. Be sure when downhauling and sheeting the main that the sail head does not get pulled down. If it slips down, re-tension the main halyard again.

As an after thought, it is possible that the head is pulling out on the way up. If the tracks are mismatched or there is a gap. We have a new plastic track we use on the Getaway that was designed to hold the sail better (thicker and stiffer). You might replace the plastic tracks and maybe add another section of metal for a bit more insurance against the head pulling out.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Matt, I agree with your assessment and as hard as it may be to believe, the sail was raised as you described. I guess I need to look for another halyard replacement as the luff rope is in really good condition.

BTW, I don't think the sail is pulling out on it's way up. I've stood back on shore to verify this, but will keep your suggestion in mind.

Thanks for all the help.

TC

_________________
TC

I'm not sure if this helps a lot but the main sail is pulling from my H21SE luff track at the head. The 21SE does have the masthead hook so halyard tension is not an issue here. It only did this starting last year and only on gybes. I've checked my gybe technique and I'm on the money there. I have the old, all plastic luff track and the original main sail.
I have the newer aluminum luff track part to be installed this winter.
It might be possible that I'm easing the downhaul too much for beam reach/run sailing.
At any rate don't get spooked by your difficulties, it will just get you more familiar with your boat and make you a better sailor. I poked a hole in one hull after I installed a front tramp and forgot about clearing the crossbar when telescoping the hulls in for trailering, duh. The repair was very straightforward.
If you think your boat is expensive talk to someone with a lead sled. There's nothing with a better cost/joy ratio than a Hobie Cat.

Hook pulls the sail out of the track?

On the H21SE or others with halyard hook systems... The halyard ring and shackle, when welded (Aussie halyard shackle) seems to pull the luff out when the mast is rotated to starboard and the sail is to port or perhaps as the mast rotates onto the port tack and over-rotates for a moment too? Maybe a kind of whipping motion. This could happen during a gybe. Get the shackle and separate ring so there is a little universal motion there. That help prevent the sail from being levered out of the track at the top.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I never thought about taking up on the rotator before a gybe. Does a loose halyard ring make it more difficult to get it on, and much more importantly, off the hook? It seems to me that the alignment of the ring axis parallel to the sail was rather important to catch and release the hook.

Take a look in the FAQ forum subject for technique on how to hook the ring. You don't need the welede shackle / ring.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)