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 Post subject: tell tale placement
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:18 am
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Location: Virginia Beach VA
My "new" 1982 14 turbo came with a Hobie 5XXXX series main sail. There was only one set of tell tales, now gone, on this sail. Is a single tell tale set the norm for the H14?


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 Post subject: Re: tell tale placement
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:10 am 
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Location: Detroit, MI
It's normal from the factory, but you'll want a few more on it.
Image
Ones in the front for setting the basic angle (traveller) and ones on the leech for setting twist (mainsheet).


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 Post subject: Re: tell tale placement
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:30 am 
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Thanks. Those boats in the photo do not appear to be Turbos (without furling jibs). I'm a little surprised to see guys trapped out. I didn't think the stock H14 could take trapeze wires.


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 Post subject: Re: tell tale placement
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:37 am 
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That photo is from the 2009 Hobie 14 North Americans in Toronto.

The "stock" 14 has had a class legal trapeze for 10+ years - you just need to have a dolphin striker to keep the front crossbar from collapsing.


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 Post subject: Re: tell tale placement
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:10 pm 
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Is the jib then not class legal? How much different are the newer boats from my '82? All of the older sailors around here who grew up with the 14 are telling me I'll never trap out on this boat. Your photo clearly defies that logic.


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 Post subject: Re: tell tale placement
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:18 pm 
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The jib is class legal for the 14 Turbo class - but there hasn't been any class racing in a long time for that.

North American Championships are only held for the orginal 14 - without the jib.

Every boat in that photo is at least 25 years old. I'm on 52350 (an '85) and I weighed 195 at the time. It was windy, but not overly so. Maybe 15 kts.

BTW, Hobie Cat "lost track" of the sail numbers in the early 2000's - even though my sail was a 52XXX series, it really should have been 62XXX - it was new in 2004. It's not much older than the other sails in that photo.

You need to be talking to Dan Berger in your area. He knows what's up on the 14.


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 Post subject: Re: tell tale placement
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:50 am 
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Yeah, Dan is out of the H14 game except parts. He mostly sails his girlfriend's NACRA 450.


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 Post subject: Re: tell tale placement
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:48 am 
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 10:33 am
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Location: Clinton, Mississippi
sunvista wrote:
All of the older sailors around here who grew up with the 14 are telling me I'll never trap out on this boat.


Nonsense! When it's honkin' more than I want to deal with solo on the H-16, I take my daughter's '83 H-14T out and have a blast on the wire. Some caution regarding weight placement is in order, but the thing really handles the wind, waves, and my weight (~175 lbs.) way better than I expected. A screamng reach trapped out behind the rear beam is an absolute hoot! Haven't crashed it yet, but, when I do, who cares. It's easy for me to right solo w/ no aids and go for more.....sort of like an overgrown windsurfer with a place for the beer cooler!

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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16


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 Post subject: Re: tell tale placement
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:36 pm 
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rattle 'n hum wrote:
A screamng reach trapped out behind the rear beam is an absolute hoot! like an overgrown windsurfer!
All right! That's what I wanted to hear. I'm thinking I should invest in a set of foot straps?


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 Post subject: Re: tell tale placement
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:57 am 
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Location: Clinton, Mississippi
sunvista wrote:
rattle 'n hum wrote:
A screamng reach trapped out behind the rear beam is an absolute hoot! like an overgrown windsurfer!
All right! That's what I wanted to hear. I'm thinking I should invest in a set of foot straps?


I put a little 3M non-skid tape on the outboard edge of the deck behind the rear beam, and have had no real issues with footing. While I admit I have not used them, footstraps scare me. I may be alone in this opinion, but, if I do something that propels my body into orbit, I'd rather my foot go with it! Even the hiking straps make me a little nervous....have heard horror stories of getting hung up, tearing ACLs, even being trapped by them during capsize.

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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16


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 Post subject: Re: tell tale placement
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:43 am
Posts: 12
Quote:
It's normal from the factory, but you'll want a few more on it.
Image
Ones in the front for setting the basic angle (traveller) and ones on the leech for setting twist (mainsheet).


MBounds, could you elaborate on how the "angle" tell tales work? Should both aft and windward be flowing, just aft etc? Also approximately what panel of the sail should they be in and how far back from the luff should they be placed.

Thanks for your reply!

Codie


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 Post subject: Re: tell tale placement
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:22 pm 
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Location: Detroit, MI
A response to a nine-year-old post. That's got to be a record.

The "coarse" angle tell-tales are in the second and fourth panels, about 1/4 way back. You want both the windward and leeward tales flowing back.

It's the location of the stock telltales on the US made sails (6707 is me in the photo):
Image


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 Post subject: Re: tell tale placement
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:44 pm 
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Well I'll take any record I can get!

OK this might not be the same but I will ask it anyway.

I have not been able to take the H14 out yet to check out this advice but I was out in a Hobie 18 recently and it didnt matter what traveler position I used, I could not get the windward tell tale to stream aft. The leeward seemed to stream aft with any traveler position. The upper leach tales were streaming as recommended.

Does the jib adjust the traveler tales a little bit?

Ill be going out in the Hobie 14 this weekend so will test this all out at as well but would love some advice based on what I found with the H18.

Also, with the 2 traveler tale positions which one is more important? Or should it be possible to get all 4 streaming backward with the correct traveler position?

Thanks,

Codie


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 Post subject: Re: tell tale placement
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:45 am 
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Location: Detroit, MI
There will always be a "burble" of turbulent air behind the windward side of the mast. Depending on where the tell-tale is, if could be in the burble or the mast may be over rotated.

Don't get so hung up on getting all the telltales flowing at all the same time - especially on a single-handed boat like the 14. Look closely at the photo I posted. Hardly anyone has all their telltales flowing correctly. This is immediately after the start when there are a lot of things going on. By focusing on the sail trim, you end up not paying attention to steering, weight placement, and shifting gears; all are way more important than getting the perfectly trimmed sail.

There are a lot of books and videos on sail trim theory and visualization - Google is your friend.

This one's short and pretty cool to see how turbulent the flow is at the hull:


This one's a bit more dry, but it shows both air flow and pressure differential:


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