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 Post subject: TI sailing capabilities
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:08 am 
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:27 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Annapolis MD

My sailing friends seem to think the TI won't be able to sail into or "close to the wind" very well. I told them I that the retractable centerboard and two mirage drives are supposed to provide pretty good lateral resistance. Is this the case or is it difficult for a TI to sail upwind when compared to other similar boats?



2011 Hobie Mirage Adventure
Caribbean Blue
ST Turbo Fins, Sail Kit (w/home-made furler), Sailing Rudder, SideKick Ama Kit, Daggerboard, iComfort Seat Pad, GoPro Hero3+, RTIC SoftPak 30, Seattle Sports Scupper Swift Cart

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:20 am 
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:07 pm
Posts: 1041
Location: Ontario, Canada
There are a couple of difficulties with this. First of all, are there any similar sailboats? Second, even if the TI couldn't sail as close to the wind as other sailboats, very gentle pedalling will significantly enhance your upwind performance.

That's the beauty of the Mirage Drive sailboats. The Drive is part of the boat, it's not something that users don't use because they want to be traditional, it's something that enhances the performance of the boat.

In some cases, it probably won't point upwind as well as other boats, but users don't think twice about using the pedals, and that makes the Island boats, truly go-anywhere type of boats.

The best thing to do is to get out on the water and try the boat you're interested in. A lot of people have a lot of assumptions about boats that just aren't true, or aren't valid for each individual user. You may find that it points higher, (unassisted) than your friends thought. You may also find that you don't mind pedalling and can pinch extremely close to the wind. Nothing replaces a test sail.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:35 am 
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 2517
Location: High Point, NC
I've never failed to return to the dock in my TI, regardless of which direction the wind is blowing.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:26 pm 
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 2717
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
As Augaug discribes, there is no boat like the TI out there to compare to. Because of the mirage drive my preferred direction in light winds (if I have to go against the wind) is directly into it with the sail pulled as tight as possible and pedaling lightly. In under 5mph winds the boat makes good headway where any other boat out there is sitting in irons. As I pass by them they always yell out at me accusing me of cheating with my pedal drive (keyword here is passing them by LOL).
In higher winds (15mph) I could easily point 35-45 degrees to the wind and get up to 7-10 mph on a pretty wild and fun ride tacking back and forth (with the sail furled some). Or alternately I can open the sail all the way pulling it very tight and point around 5-10 points off the wind and still make good headway (4-5mph). I have heard of others discribe trips where one TI tacks and the other TI takes the direct route, and they end up at the final destination at about the same time (the tacking guy is pretty worn out though LOL). When pointing tight into the wind you need to pedal some to keep power to the sail. As the boat tends to want to round into the wind and stall when sailing that close.
However keep in mind here I have a jib on my TI which I think changes the picture slightly (the jib allows you to sail much closer to the wind and increases your speed). I've had a jib on all my TI's since early 2010 (I'm on my 3rd TI now), and would never go out in the water without a jib, and honestly don't remember the first couple weeks I had my original TI (with no extra sails, etc), all I remember for sure is I was quickly bored sailing a stock TI in the typical low winds (< 5mph) around Sarasota Florida, "thats why I added extra sails".
Another point I should add is I tend to pedal 100 % of the time whenever I'm out in the boat, 'thats my excercise thing'. Pedaling a mirage drive is not difficult, actually both my wife and I can pedal for 10 hrs one day then get up and do it again the next day, as most seasoned Hobie mirage users can do easily. And as Augaug points out, the mirage drive is part of the boat, making the AI/ TI unique in the industry.

And like Tom says the TI will always get you home, and boy have I put mine to that task on many occations.

Hope this helps you

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:24 pm 
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:17 pm
Posts: 675
Location: Auckland NZ
Upwind sailing performance varies widely from boat to boat and also the sailing conditions.

I have not been on a TI but I know sailing both the AI and the Adventure pretty well and I have had people who haven't sailed either telling me that they can't sail upwind - "...well, not properly".

Both of these boats sail well upwind and I have no doubt that the TI will too.

What the precise tacking angle of the TI is is a moot point: I am sure that there are better upwind performers out there which may be what your friends are referring to. And these boats are relatively small and are therefore more at the mercy of wind and wave than larger boats. But will the TI sail effectively upwind and with enough tacking ability to make upwind sailing a practical and pleasurable proposition? Well if my experience of the Adventure and AI are anything to go by - then yes it will!

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:50 am 
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:53 am
Posts: 276
Location: Sollentuna, Sweden, Europe
In my experience, which not include the TI (I sail an AI), monohull sailboats have better upwind performance than multihull sailboats.
I was a bit surprised that I did about the same speed as an Hobie Oasis from start to finish with a lot of tacking. Sometimes I was ahead of the Oasis, sometimes they were ahead of me. The Oasis pointed closer to the wind and they had no problem with the quite strong wind.
They (2 persons) used the Mirage Drive and so did I, combined with saling.
But as soon as we went sailing not so closed to wind, the AI left the Oasis behind. They had absolutely no chance to compete. And we were still going a little upwind.

As pointed out by all posts above, the Mirage Drive is a part of the concept and there is no "cheating", just the fastest boat from A to B with just wind & muscle. :mrgreen:

Of course you can go upwind! But upwind performance is not the best sailing ability of an AI (and probably not a TI).

But I am still learning how to sail the AI with best possible speed and there are plenty more experienced AI/TI sailors on this forum.

br thomas

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:04 pm 
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2625
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
TI sailing as close hauled as possible into 10-15 knot Nor'easter, drives pulled (no pedaling), DB down, 2 people with one hiking out on tramp/haka. Distance=16km. Max speed 9km/h.

Interestingly we were travelling with another TI which went much wider, further and faster on the tacks until he disappeared in the distance, yet we both met at the same point on our final tack to our destination. I had to tack again to avoid a collision! :wink: :)

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