Return to Hobie.com
Hobie Forums
It is currently Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:07 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 319 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 ... 22  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:02 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3010
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
This is all good conversation, you guys will have all the minor kinks worked out in no time at all, (there are alway minor kinks). I do like Tony's knot idea.

Pete:
The rear stay doesn't effect the mast bending at all, and allows the mast to bend side to side to spill air when needed. Really the only reason for the rear stay is to strengthen the forward load on the mast when flying the spinnaker, and to help prevent the bow from diving (nautilus mode) on your downwind flying the spinnaker or running batwing with a jib (batwing is jib to one side and main to the other with a barber hauler). Without the rear stay the bow dives underwater and stays down until you release the sails (and I'm not about to ever do that (lol)). Funny thing is Nautilus mode doesn't slow the boat down, but boy do you get wet. On all other points of sail the rear stay does nothing at all, mine is actually loose and it sags (the reason for the PVC tubing), watch any of my videos, you will always see that rear stay loose and laying against the side of my mainsail, that's just what it does. If you look up when on and upwind or reach, the mast is always bent back a foot or two by design. That's why it's so hard to add additional sails to these boats (the floppy windsurfer mast), I'm not complaining, I love the design, and Hobie finally figured out a brilliant spinnaker design that works well with the existing Adventure design ( the best of all worlds in my opinion), now they just need to figure out the jib (lol), who knows maybe that's the big thing coming out next month (still a closely guarded secret from their skunkworks), personally I've got my fingers crossed for a wider stronger super TI (not likely of course).
FE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:19 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:09 am
Posts: 66
PeteCress wrote:
tonystott wrote:
.... By furling the main FIRST, the backstay/halyard will be tensioned, so would be unlikely to get wrapped around the mast.
I have the whole thing apart right now, so I cannot try that.

But my recollection is that the halyard is never really tensioned - it always has at least a foot of slop in it.

That slop is part of the reason I want to add a jam on the rear aka next to the cheek block and something else (undetermined as yet) in front.

The other (actually the main) reason for the jam cleat on the rear aka is to guard against accidental deployment should the halyard snag on something... but it's other function - in conjunction with whatever I come up for the fore part - would be to put tension on the halyard.


I do not have this problem on my TI. The halyard line has very little slack in it.. In fact, sometimes, I ask my girlfriend to hold the halyard line while I tie it to the stuffed sail because it pulls with the wind and sometimes I mess up the knot.. My halyard line is tight when the sail is barely stuffed in the bag. If you get a nice pull while stuffing, the sail goes completely in the bag, barely, and the line is tight. Same thing when raising the sail. At the top, the halyard line is tight. Note: On my TI, I have installed my snorkel bag farther out on the akas than the AI installation instructions show.

That being said, I have to furl the sail a lot on the TI to avoid the back stay during a tack. I did not do that a few times, and during a broad reach, the main sail was pushing against the mast topper, and the small flag pole on the topper. I noticed that the little flag pole was a little bent and I had to straighten it with a pair of pliers. I am getting the hang of it though. Its a a lot of fun. It is really a nice system.. Just get used to looking up before you tack and furl and make sure you have everything setup to tack smoothly. Everything is pretty easy in low wind conditions, under 10 mph and mistakes are not a big deal. Between 10-13 mph wind conditions, the boat really starts moving with both sails up and there is a lot of tension on the mast. Stuffing and furling are much harder and getting into irons is more important for such moves.. This is when less mistakes are more important, and this is when I think I bent my flag pole :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:26 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 8:53 am
Posts: 716
Location: Paoli Pennsylvania - East Coast USA
hjdca wrote:
PeteCress wrote:
tonystott wrote:
.... By furling the main FIRST, the backstay/halyard will be tensioned, so would be unlikely to get wrapped around the mast.
I have the whole thing apart right now, so I cannot try that.

But my recollection is that the halyard is never really tensioned - it always has at least a foot of slop in it.


I do not have this problem on my TI. The halyard line has very little slack in it..
Well, I just put it all back together again and the slack has gone away.... so much, in fact, that I had to splice a couple of feet into the halyard at the head of the sail to allow a full pull into the snuffing bag.

My conclusion: As usual, User Error... Dunno what I was had wrong before, but now it is different....

My hands are noticibly sore from raising/snuffing the sail a half-dozen times....That thin halyard line really bites into the hands - just as badly as the stuff Hobie supplies as the main sail furling line.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: Confirm@FatBelly.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:33 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:30 am
Posts: 407
Location: Clearwater, Fl
I've been out of town so haven't had a chance to post plus I wanted to see what Pete thought of the setup.
PeteCress wrote:
But my recollection is that the halyard is never really tensioned - it always has at least a foot of slop in it.
Exactly and I don't think anything will keep it tension-ed with the way this is configured.

I sailed with the spinnaker a few times and realized I did not like it at all. I hated the dread of tangling every time you furl. Because some of the tangles can be very debilitating. That was my number one concern. The other problem is I just didn't like how all the lines and all just seemed to take over the boat. The fun factor I mentioned awhile back went way down with all the complexity. I did not like it.

But even though I considered selling my new spinnaker on EBAY, I was encouraged from a couple people I sail with to find a way to make it work and fix the flaws. So I came up with a pretty good way to modify the system in that I raised the mast 10", lowered the sail 2" (bad idea as the lowered sail kept hitting me in the head) and extended the rear topper with a rigid 24" stainless extension rod (similar to what Fusioneng/Bob uses). After taking it out for a test, 90% of the furling tangling problems were eliminated. But not completely because like what Pete said, the halyard is always loose unless the spinnaker is flying.
Image
Picture of modifications to topper

Despite all my new modifications, I still did not enjoy the spinnaker so it was completely uninstalled from my boat and I'm going to start over and completely redo the system. My plan is to not lower the sail 2" but still raise the mast 10 inches or so and extend the back stay support to about 30". The topper will be one of my own and the back stay will be a rigid line (that can be tensioned if you desire Tony) that attaches to the stern but doesn't thread through the entire boat like the Hobie setup. My goal is to mount the snuffer on the bow and make it similar to the way the triak's snuffer works. Kind of. But it will be a simple system and the spinnaker should fly nicely and hopefully snuff too because I don't like the thought of crawling out on the bow to manually snuff ! But it's worth a try and the angles will all be different so maybe it will be more efficient.

Not sure if it will work but many of the modifications are already done. Should be interesting.

My batons are trimmed all the way back but before the new topper modifications I had some doosey tangles with the halyard line. Once the main was stuck open while in a busy channel while I frantically tried to untangle it. No fun.
Another area of tanglement (but not as serious) is the port sheet can easily rub up against the main and get wound up into the main when you furl. I've had that happen several times.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:55 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3010
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Jim:
You might try wrapping a couple loops of spectra around the rudder gudgeon, then clip the rear stay pulley to the spectra instead of the normal cleat (it will be just as strong, thats what I sometimes do). That buys you at least an additional foot.
Next go to home Depot and buy some 3/8" dia pvc water pipe drill a small hole in one end and tie it to the back of the mast topper (you may need to drill a small hole in the mast topper to attach the spectra string to (you have seen the PVC tubing on my boat).
I never had a lot of luck with the big loop rear stay line without adding a fixed rear stay line as well (all inside the PVC tubing).
If I wasn't running dual halyards for both my jib and spin, I might consider eliminating that rear pully system alltogher and switch to a fixed clip on rear stay, then run the halyard for the spin down to a cleat on the front AKA center brace (way more reliable up there (thats how I run my second jib halyard ( you have seen it), having the halyard up front just seems more reliable to me.
I also never had a lot of luck with snuffer socks, I made 4 different versions and didn't like any of them, I ended up using a furling mast with a pvc furler for my spinnaker ( you have seen it).
If you still have your furler head from your last boat you might want to try attaching that to some 1/2" PVC pipe ( about 16 ft long, tie the top and bottom of the spinnaker to the pole and make a furling reacher out of it. In my opinion way easier because you only raise the spin once on shore using the halyard, then you just forget about it until you break the boat down. I'm pretty sure the spin will wrap tightly around the furler pole (you have seen how tightly mine wraps around my furler mast. On my boat as I change tacks and direction I can furl the jib and unfurl the spin in about 30 seconds. When I want to change tacks on the spinnaker it's easier and faster for me to furl the spin, change my tack to the other side, then unfurl the spin on the other side. I can also do it the normal way by pulling the spin over to the other side by pulling the lines in front of the mast and pulling the sail around, to the other side, but that's alway fraught with problems and way harder to do. Personally I think it's kind of a pain to switch sides (tacks) with a spin without the furler ( just sayin).
All this would of course be a last resort if you continue having problems with the snuffer bag. I'm pretty sure I would not want my snuffer bag on my tramp (we use the heck out of our tramps). I would likely mount the snuffer sock up near the bow, then run it at an angle (laying on top of my heavy duty spray skirts back to the right AKA bar midway out. I think the snuffer sock would be out of the way there, and wouldn't interfere with the hatch ( I suspect there is not enough room on the front deck for the snuffer sock. Also if the snuffer sock is attached to the spray skirt you would just un clip the spray skirt at the end of the day and flip it over the bow (thats what I do now), nothing to remove from the boat, just leave the spin in the bag, it's protected from highway wind by the spray skirt along with all the ropes and rigging ( that I know you hate).
The ideal setup would be if your using a furling spin insead of the snuffer bag. The object would be to leave all the lines hooked up and laying the both masts in the hull for transport (all tied inder the spray skirts on the highway). Just leave the mast topper on top of the mast. When you get to launch you raise the main mast, you then walk to the back of the boat and clip the return pulley onto the spectra string on the gudgeon. Then you hoist the spinnaker using the halyard, stuffing the excess line into one of the rear mesh pockets (thats what I do). At this point your good to launch, keep in mind all your control lines and furler lines never leave the boat, nothing else to attach except that one clip at the back. An additional option with the furler pole and furling reacher since it's a code zero spin, is partially furled it could double as a jib for upwind (double duty). The sail might not be cut exactly right for that though, someone would need to try it.

Now alternately lets say you get the snuffer sock working (attached to your spray skirt). Basically you may still have to walk back and clip that pulley at the back of the boat (but maybe not if you design with a long enough stay line). In this case you open the AMA's attach the spray skirts to the Ama's (with the spinnaker in the snuffer all hooked up ready to go). With the snuffer mounted further forward you can likely eliminate that long traveler line.
Of course I don't have any of this stuff. I'm just trying to imagine in my mind how I would rig for myself If I can ever afford a spinnaker kit (not likely until my Social Security comes in, two more years to wait (lol).
Just tryin to help here.
FE
Edit:
I understand completely about the complexity ruining the fun factor, if stuff is a pain to setup and use, or gets tangled up easily your not likely to use it very long. I also feel strongly that whatever you design on a boat needs to be balanced, a good example is my original spinnaker setup, the boat literally screamed downwind, I would take it offshore down in key west, then when it came time to come home (upwind) you of course can't use the spinnaker upwind, and just my mainsail and mirage drives weren't powerful enough to get back to the Island, turning what started being a fun day into a brutal ten hr ordeal, we didn't get back in till way after dark. For this reason anymore I always make sure my upwind capability matchs my downwind capability in all conditions (learned thru very hard knocks).


Last edited by fusioneng on Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:47 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:30 am
Posts: 407
Location: Clearwater, Fl
fusioneng wrote:
Jim:
You might try wrapping a couple loops of spectra around the rudder gudgeon, then clip the rear stay pulley to the spectra instead of the normal cleat (it will be just as strong, thats what I sometimes do). That buys you at least an additional foot.
I'll keep that in mind Bob, every little bit helps in keeping the lines free

fusioneng wrote:
If you still have your furler head from your last boat you might want to try attaching that to some 1/2" PVC pipe ( about 16 ft long, tie the top and bottom of the spinnaker to the pole and make a furling reacher out of it. In my opinion way easier because you only raise the spin once on shore using the halyard, then you just forget about it until you break the boat down.

I'm pretty sure the spin will wrap tightly around the furler pole (you have seen how tightly mine wraps around my furler mast. On my boat as I change tacks and direction I can furl the jib and unfurl the spin in about 30 seconds. When I want to change tacks on the spinnaker it's easier and faster for me to furl the spin, change my tack to the other side, then unfurl the spin on the other side. I can also do it the normal way by pulling the spin over to the other side by pulling the lines in front of the mast and pulling the sail around, to the other side, but that's always fraught with problems and way harder to do. Personally I think it's kind of a pain to switch sides (tacks) with a spin without the furler ( just sayin)
That's my backup plan if the snuffer on the bow doesn't pan out.


fusioneng wrote:
I'm pretty sure I would not want my snuffer bag on my tramp (we use the heck out of our tramps). I would likely mount the snuffer sock up near the bow, then run it at an angle (laying on top of my heavy duty spray skirts back to the right AKA bar midway out. I think the snuffer sock would be out of the way there,
Yes, exactly ... the snuffer on the tramp takes up prime real estate that I don't want to give up.

I initially tried to mount the snuffer on a haka but ran into difficulties. I used a ram mount removable cleat so I could remove the haka after sailing. But alas, there was too much force on the snuffer bag and it made the haka move around too much unless I secured it better. PLUS I was worried the sail would catch on the haka and tear while snuffing. Here's a picture of the haka attempt plus a better one of my successful anti-tangle measures using the Hobie spinnaker topper.
Image
Image
Image

My anti-tangle mast topper works great in conjunction the Hobie mast topper and seems like a solution to most of the tangling problems and keeps the rear stay line away from the mainsail. If you don't mind all the rigging and the way the Hobie spinnaker takes over your tramp then this can be a potential solution. Especially since the Hobie topper is modified without cutting any holes or making permanent modifications. But one of the most important parts of this is where you increase the height of the mast 10" with my fabricated aluminum piece that goes under the Hobie topper. This height helps to keep the forward spinnaker halyard line away from the top of the furling main.

To mount the snuffer on the bow will require some additional hardware that I still have from older jib attempts. The snuffer sock is pretty long and will extend out to port side of the mast.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:11 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:30 am
Posts: 407
Location: Clearwater, Fl
PeteCress wrote:
CaptnChaos wrote:
It would be nice to hear from other 2015/2016 AI'2's with it installed to see what their tangling experiences are. Any ideas are also appreciated.
Hold the Mast Tip Rotator in your hand and try rotating the cup that the mast tip sits in. Does it rotate freely?

Pete, I think you have a defective topper. Mine rotates freely


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:06 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3010
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Jim:
I like that extension on your mast topper, it looks like just a flexible fiberglass pultrusion lashed to the side of the mast topper with a pulley at the back. The flexible pultrusion would work like a chain tensioner keeping the rear stay line tight and out of the way, I like it....
I use those fiberglass pultrusions for everything, I usually get the orange 4ft long ones at Home depot ($2 bucks each), they are as strong as all get out and lightweight. Lol I have ten of them glued onto our garage door to re-enforce it during huricanes. You can also stuff them into PVC tubing to make it stronger.

Hey I like the idea of raising the mainsail some, I see no downside to that ( I'll probably try that one myself (never thought of it lol). If I do that I will also move the sail control line back to the rudder gudgeon as well perminantly. This will make life in the back seat of my TI a little more tolerable. I used to have a PVC goalpost that raised the sail control line higher for the rear passenger, but raising that control line up caused the mainsail to wrinkle and kind of killed my performance. It simply never dawned on me to raise the main up a few inches (lol). With the raised mainsail and the pulley moved back, all the angles should still work (great idea), we should tell Tom Kirkman about this one (he goes thru a lot of hats (lol).
All this talk about Spinnakers, mines been hangin in the garage for a couple yrs unused, ( I never used it so I stopped bringing it along (complexity vs fun factor holds true). Truth be told I haven't done crap to my boat mod wise in a couple years (besides widening the boat to 12 ft wide), I just use the darn thing and have fun. I'm probably goin to bust the spin out and start using it again ( once anyway).
FE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:14 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 8:53 am
Posts: 716
Location: Paoli Pennsylvania - East Coast USA
CaptnChaos wrote:
My anti-tangle mast topper works great in conjunction the Hobie mast topper and seems like a solution to most of the tangling problems.....
Sounds like you are on to something.

"Most" ?? ...... Have you had any tangles with your mast topper extension in place?


I am experiencing cognitive dissonance from this situation.

On one hand I am beginning to suspect this is a flawed design.

On the other hand I have to believe that Hobie has tested the living snot out of this thing and maybe there is still something that we-who-have-tangles are doing wrong.


My two initial theories (slack in the system and batten protrusion) have been laid to rest.

I trimmed the batten to where it is now actually inside the pocket:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 6736354834
https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 1943863922

Seems like there isn't as much of a problem when the sail is furled with a little tension on the mainsheet.

But when the main is furled with a slack mainsheet, mine has tangled every time in the half-dozen-or-more times I have tested it.

Here is a vid of the tangle actually happening - and the vid demonstrates that the spinnaker halyard is taut - zero slop in the system: https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 6691386498

Before I try to replicate your extension, I am going to work some more with FusionEng's idea of thin PVC over the halyard as it exits the Mast Tip Rotator. ..... Already tried it on the aft section and it survived a couple of furls.... but hung up on the third. ..... So now I have to try it fore and aft.

Can you post a few close-up pix of your extension setup ?

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: Confirm@FatBelly.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:44 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2893
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Captain Chaos. I only have 5 inches clearance at HWS, so I won't be adding height to my TIs mast!
Pete. Penguinman used the prototype reacher in the 2015 EC Challenge, using a 2015 AI.

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:16 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3010
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Tony:
I went thru the reacher design with Jim the day before the 2015 EC, tryin unsuccessfuly to help with suggestions on how to improve the design. He knows I have a similar design that I've been running trouble free for 6 yrs now (actually most of the components are still the original components with a gazzilian sailing miles on them).
To be honest I was more than a little shocked that the final released design is exactly the same design. Which I kind of told him at the time kinda sucked. Oh well I tried.
Just my opinion you would think they would pay more attention to their most popular and profitable boat model (IMO). I'm not trying to be critical of Hobie, but I'm just not seeing this going very well at all. (Maybe I'm just blind).
My opinion is they forever changed the world of sailing when they invented the adventure line of boats, they brought a whole new class of new people and sailers into a dying and mature industry.
Now this huge group of loyal followers as their skills advance, and the uses for these unique boats multiply, I'm just sayin you would think Hobie would be paying more attention to whats really going on and come out with new stuff that works.
I'm a huge Hobie fan, but am a little disapointed, I'm still fine because I just design and make what I need myself ( for my own use only, but that's what I do for a living), I'm not sure everyone can do that.
I'm sure really experienced guys like you, captnchaos, and guys like Tom Kirkman will work the kinks out and come up with something useful. But my point is we shouldn't have needed to.
Signed
Anonymous


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:36 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 8:53 am
Posts: 716
Location: Paoli Pennsylvania - East Coast USA
PeteCress wrote:
Before I try to replicate your extension, I am going to work some more with FusionEng's idea of thin PVC over the halyard as it exits the Mast Tip Rotator. ..... Already tried it on the aft section and it survived a couple of furls.... but hung up on the third. ..... So now I have to try it fore and aft.
It is looking like FusionEng's suggested workaround using PVC over the halyard fore and aft might do the job well enough.

Sail slack enough, pull the roller reef line hard enough... and I can still wrap the halyard around the mast but now it is recoverable.

Here's what it looks like hung with the PVC: https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 2506507778

The PVC keeps the line from getting wrapped around the batten end and, so far, tightening up on the mainsheet un-furls the sail as per usual..... and then I can attempt the reef again only slower and with more tension on the main sheet.

I am going to shorten the aft PVC to the same length as the fore because the critical distance seems to be long enough so the PVC, instead of the halyard line, hits the end of the #1 batten.

Then I'll test some more and, if it still seems to have promise, take it to the local mudhole where, worse-comes-to-worst, I get blown to a non-threatening shore no matter what the wind direction.


fusioneng wrote:
I went thru the reacher design with Jim the day before the 2015 EC, tryin unsuccessfuly to help with suggestions on how to improve the design. He knows I have a similar design that I've been running trouble free for 6 yrs now (actually most of the components are still the original components with a gazzilian sailing miles on them).
To be honest I was more than a little shocked that the final released design is exactly the same design. Which I kind of told him at the time kinda sucked. Oh well I tried.
If this design really is as fatally-flawed as it seems to me to be (as opposed to my doing something wrong - which still is not out of the question), I would think that Hobie has some serious exposure to lawsuits here - witness Capt'nChaos' experience in a busy channel.

Bunch of years ago, I had a suspension seatpost fail on me during normal bicycle riding . ..... I lucked out and escaped serious injury..... Called Cane Creek, the manufacturer, and told them they had a design problem... and, of course, they blew me off.

Fast forward a year or three and I found myself giving videotaped testimony in a (successful) big-bucks lawsuit against Cane Creek by a guy in California whose life and body were basically ruined when his Cane Creek suspension seatpost failed in the same way mine did - but without the luck factor.

Dunno if insurance covered Cane Creek's loss - or if anybody even cared.... but this is starting to feel like "Deja Vu all over again" to me.


tonystott wrote:
...Pete. Penguinman used the prototype reacher in the 2015 EC Challenge, using a 2015 AI.
I find that interesting - and suggestive that my problems still might be user error on my part.

I would like to hear a frank discussion from Penguinman about his hands-on experience using this exact same design (?) in the 2015 EC Challenge.

If he made it through the EC Challenge without any of the problems we have been experiencing and it was the same implementation.... that would seem to speak for user error on our part.

On the other hand....

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: Confirm@FatBelly.com


Last edited by PeteCress on Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:58 pm, edited 9 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:51 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 3010
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
I wouldn't go that extreme, most people adding spinnakers are familiar enough with sailing if something isn't working quite right, they fix it with workarounds. I think it's assumed you know what your doing and you know everything works smoothly before taking your boat out in 15 to 20mph winds.
That's why it is alway best to practice and get used to the way things work in light winds and fairly protected areas until you develop the skills and expertise needed, make any neccessary adjustments to insure everything works as expected. Experience is everything in my opinion.
Kinda why you don't throw your 911 turbo keys to your 16 yr old and say go have fun, oh can you pick up some milk (lol)
I would rate the Hobie spinnaker kit as an intermediate skill level thing for people who have used their TI's a while and want a little more performance in light winds.
I'm sure Hobie will get the kinks out, they are a good company. Now some of the really sharp guys on this forum have the kits in their hands, all the tips and suggestions will start flying in. This forum is very good for that.
FE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:06 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 8:53 am
Posts: 716
Location: Paoli Pennsylvania - East Coast USA
fusioneng wrote:
... the kinks...
Does anybody else think the shackle that Hobie supplied for the front attachment point is a kink?

When not in use, the pulley lies flat on the deck - which is what the shackle allows.

But when the spinnaker is deployed, the block needs to cock 90 degrees to the deck - which the shackle does not allow - so the line is pulling through a half-cocked block.

I replaced it with a couple of wraps of 4mm Spectra so now it is free to rotate.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: Confirm@FatBelly.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:09 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:30 am
Posts: 407
Location: Clearwater, Fl
PeteCress wrote:
"Most" ?? ...... Have you had any tangles with your mast topper extension in place?
Only a minor one once when the halyard line was loose and too close to the mast. So it's still possible but not as likely. The other benefit is the rear stay line remains nice and clear so the main doesn't bang into it every time you tack which can be annoying regardless if your spinnaker is being used or not.

PeteCress wrote:
I am experiencing cognitive dissonance from this situation. On one hand I am beginning to suspect this is a flawed design. On the other hand I have to believe that Hobie has tested the living snot out of this thing and maybe there is still something that we-who-have-tangles are doing wrong.
I completely agree. I'm not an engineer and just a big chicken because I don't like tangles. That's why I put it out there to see what everyone else was experiencing. So maybe I could figure out what I was doing wrong. There's enough to think about out without having to check all your lines and tension before furling. When you need to furl, you can't be worried a tangle is going to put you in tangle mode. I love to sail right onto the beach and it looks neat when you furl about 5 seconds before you glide onto the beach. Last time it tangled in that situation and it just felt unprofessional, especially with tourists on the beach watching. Yeah, I know ... an ego thing.


PeteCress wrote:
Can you post a few close-up pix of your extension setup ?
Sure, this is how I modified the stock Hobie spinnaker topper. My new design probably won't use the Hobie topper and will look different.
Image
This topper system I fabricated is just about tangle free ... works pretty good on the Hobie stock spinnaker setup. But I'm hoping that I won't use the stock Hobie system again.

PeteCress wrote:
It is looking like FusionEng's suggested workaround using PVC over the halyard fore and aft might do the job well enough.

Glad the pvc is working for you Pete. Whatever works !

Tonystott wrote:
Captain Chaos. I only have 5 inches clearance at HWS, so I won't be adding height to my TIs mast!
That's a bummer about the 5" clearance. It's always something. I had to modify my 5" pvc mast carrier on my trailer because my new topper (the piece that is mounted on the mast) was a wee bit too big. But I finally got it to work.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 319 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 ... 22  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
© Hobie Cat Company. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group