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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:40 pm 
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Location: Houston, TX
Fusioneng, now that you have had a chance to see the final design of the mast head swivel and the fact that the stay is continuous with the halyard, do you see any reason that this design would be less likely to allow the entanglement of the back stay with the battons? Otherwise, how short do we need to trim the battons down? If you cut them down does it change the main shape in any way?

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:50 pm 
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Bob, I think you just answered my question on the Jib Physics thread. The back stay should be less likely to go slack and the entanglement might not be a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:20 pm 
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Location: San Antonio, TX
The last line of the instructions says to furl the main sail halfway when tacking or jibing when using the spinnaker to avoid entanglement. With the short back arm on the mast topper, I don't see the main clearing the back stay at all without reefing the sail. Even with a tight back stay. Maybe I'm missing something...

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:41 am 
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The small loss of forward drive caused by partially furling the main before switching the reacher to the other side will be trivial compared to the hassle ensuing if the top batten catches on the backstay/halyard.

This ain't America's Cup folks!

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:12 am 
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chadbach wrote:
The last line of the instructions says to furl the main sail halfway when tacking or jibing when using the spinnaker to avoid entanglement. With the short back arm on the mast topper, I don't see the main clearing the back stay at all without reefing the sail. Even with a tight back stay. Maybe I'm missing something...
So far, 100% of my entanglement issues have arisen during the process of furling - so that admonition in the instruction manual fails to compute for me.

I've gone on-and-on about this in the "We have two great new accessories...." thread at viewtopic.php?f=71&t=56915&p=271470#p271470

Probably should have taken it up here - but I did not know about this thread when I started getting spun up over this...

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:21 pm 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Guys:
I don't have the Hobie spinnaker kit and wouldn't be able to afford one for quite a while. I did post a couple minor general suggestions just tryin to help. But fact of the matter is it's probably better that I just keep quiet and let the clever guys on this forum work out the the issues, try them out, then post helpful hints.
I'll sit this one out.
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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:01 pm 
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chadbach wrote:
With the short back arm on the mast topper, I don't see the main clearing the back stay at all without reefing the sail. Even with a tight back stay. Maybe I'm missing something...
I do not think you are missing anything: https://picasaweb.google.com/1081497986 ... 2792895474
https://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtop ... 10#p271610

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:51 pm 
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chadbach wrote:
The last line of the instructions says to furl the main sail halfway when tacking or jibing when using the spinnaker to avoid entanglement. With the short back arm on the mast topper, I don't see the main clearing the back stay at all without reefing the sail. Even with a tight back stay. Maybe I'm missing something...

I believe that the intention of the instructions is that you partially furl (or "reef") the sail until the tallest batten is under the mast topper, therefore out of the way of the backstay. The sail can then be unfurled on the other tack or jibe.

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:07 pm 
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Location: San Antonio, TX
tonystott wrote:
chadbach wrote:
The last line of the instructions says to furl the main sail halfway when tacking or jibing when using the spinnaker to avoid entanglement. With the short back arm on the mast topper, I don't see the main clearing the back stay at all without reefing the sail. Even with a tight back stay. Maybe I'm missing something...

I believe that the intention of the instructions is that you partially furl (or "reef") the sail until the tallest batten is under the mast topper, therefore out of the way of the backstay. The sail can then be unfurled on the other tack or jibe.


That's what I take from it. I never became interested in the spinnaker kit because of this reason. I'm always tacking and jibing on the lake that I sail and it wouldn't be fun having to always furl/unfurl the main. On big open water, though, I can see where it would be fun!

I wonder how it would be to use the kit with a "fusioneng" style topper with a long rear arm? Seems like the halyard would tangle less. I wonder why Hobie didn't go that route.

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Last edited by chadbach on Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:10 pm 
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tonystott wrote:
I believe that the intention of the instructions is that you partially furl (or "reef") the sail until the tallest batten is under the mast topper, therefore out of the way of the backstay. The sail can then be unfurled on the other tack or jibe.
Sounds to me like the instructions apply not only while the reacher is deployed... but all the time that the reacher is installed on the boat - whether snuffed or deployed.

That being the case, every tack and every gybe should be preceeded by a pull on the reefing line and followed by releasing the reefing line.

Maybe a little shot of spray paint to make a reference point on the reefing line where the main is reefed enough to clear the reacher's halyard.

That being the case, the entanglement of reacher halyard around the #1 batten end becomes an even bigger issue just by virtue of frequency of exposure.

FWIW, so far my 21" 1/2" PVC sleeves hanging fore-and-aft from the mast topper have permitted graceful recovery from halyard entanglement. .... They have not completely prevented it... but, so far, they have made the situation recoverable by un-reefing the main.

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Last edited by PeteCress on Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:33 pm 
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PeteCress wrote:
chadbach wrote:
I wonder how it would be to use the kit with a "fusioneng" style topper with a long rear arm? Seems like the halyard would tangle less. I wonder why Hobie didn't go that route.
CaptnChaos thinks that the leverage on those little plastic bearings in the topper would damage them.


I meant to build an entire new topper, like the ones people are building for jibs. Of course it would suck to buy that expensive kit and not use part of it, but could maybe be worth a try. Although your pcv sleeve solution sounds like a better way to go.

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:16 pm 
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chadbach wrote:
Although your pcv sleeve solution sounds like a better way to go.
Ability to recover, rather than prevention..... But it still does not address the halyard/mainsail overlap issue. ..... Seems like there is no way around that save for furling/unfurling with every tack with or without the spinnaker deployed.

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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:43 pm
Posts: 15
Thank you for the heads up. I will be returning mine as soon as it gets here. I did not realize the back stay was going to cause so much frustration, frustration leads to anger, anger leads to hate...

I decided to go with a 3 line kite for downwind performance. It is simple and packable, no stays or bats, nothing really other than deploy for fun and more speed or just stuff it in the hatch under your tackle box. Video coming soon. No, it is no where near what a spinnaker is capable of but it doesn't turn my kayak into a sailboat either, with sailboat rig complexities and issues... unwanted ones.

I do not understand why hobie went to all the trouble to make a big impressive spinnaker that just compromises the intuitive, stable, sane nature of this boat. I purchased this reacher kit blindly thinking, "well the rest of the boat works great".


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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:23 am 
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Also,

What if when not in use, the rear stay moves to the front. A little rig that zips it right up to the front might be a decent fix for the when not deployed problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Reacher
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:57 am 
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Boy... I'd say a lot of miss-information leading to confusion and frustration here. The batten can easily be shortened and covered by tape. You aren't typically gybing so often that hang ups even happen that often. Since furling the sail partially clears the issue... simply follow the instructions.

If you really can't do any of that... a sail maker can easily modify the leech shape for you. No need for a completely new sail.

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