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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:28 pm 
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Based on the difference the skegs have made to straightline paddling on my Adventure I would say yes, but as I don't venture into surf and have never been in a Revo 13 I couldn't be definite. It would be worth trying as the skegs are only about $5 on eBay and VHB tape is pretty cheap.
Just remember proper hull prep is essential, cleaning with alcohol and flaming being the crucial steps.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:42 pm 
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riverman wrote:
I have a Revo 13. Getting thru breakers is sometimes a challenge. Getting the rudder deployed is sometimes not possible or takes too long in surf. Keeping kayak straight thru breakers while paddling is difficult. Do you think this mod would help that situation?


I would say the effect is too subtle for having an effect in the surf. Handling in the surf is more about having good confident skills with the paddle to make aggressive manoeuvring strokes. Often being able to "spin on the spot" in order to quickly turn a kayak is preferred. eg surf and white water kayaks have virtually no tracking ability.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:07 pm 
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stringy wrote:
4-Applied Primer 94 to starboard side hull only. I’ll see if it makes a difference.
Stringy, thanks for the well documented How-To on the skeg additions! It will be interesting to see if there is a difference in the use of primer vs. no primer.

Remembering your old Oasis, that was probably the most modded boat on the forum! Dual sails, converted T&S rudder, retractable daggerboard, custom hatches, etc. etc. Didn't you also put a Photon Drive in that? It should probably be in a museum if it isn't already! :D


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:53 pm 
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:lol:
Thanks Roadrunner and thanks also for the great memories with our first Hobie. Seems like an age ago now!

I’ve just given the skegs a thorough inspection and there is zero lifting anywhere. As a test I picked the hull up by the skegs and the bond remained rock solid.
I’m tempted to add to all the VHB test videos on YouTube and film the hull being lifted by the skegs, progressively adding more weight until something gives!
BTW a huge thank you for the flaming suggestion. 8)
I would say that it was the flaming that was the big difference in improving the bond. I noticed that the Primer 94 over paint excess was easily rubbed off the hull. I doubt it made much difference.
I learnt from those YouTube clips that the effects of flaming PE are temporary and must be redone if glue/paint isn’t applied within a short time. It seems the oils etc return to the surface, so it will be interesting to see if this effects the VHB bond over time.
But so far, with two on water trips and a week since redoing the skegs, the bond is holding very well!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:40 pm 
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Ordered some myself for a job to do in the new year.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:07 am 
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stringy wrote:
I learnt from those YouTube clips that the effects of flaming PE are temporary and must be redone if glue/paint isn’t applied within a short time.
I read that as well, but I also read that the flaming result was relatively stable over time. So I tested whether the bond would weaken if the coating was applied 24 hours later. If you compare my samples # 3 (flamed then coated immediately) vs #6 (flamed, then coated one day later) you will see little difference in the scuff marks.

Image

On the two coated boats, one was done about 6 months ago and the other about 4 months ago and both are still well bonded.

Here's an excerpt from an automotive article discussing benefits of flame treatment. Evidently one of the benefits is the ability to treat now, coat later. Those that don't get similar results may be under or over-treating. It appears that over-treatment may result in "delaminating" of the PE microscopic surface layer and / or reversing the oxidation process.

Image

It seems there is a lot to it, but the benefits really open the door to a host of new applications! It looks like your skegs may stick around awhile. 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:03 am 
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Roadrunner wrote:
I read that as well, but I also read that the flaming result was relatively stable over time. So I tested whether the bond would weaken if the coating was applied 24 hours later....
On the two coated boats, one was done about 6 months ago and the other about 4 months ago and both are still well bonded.....

It seems there is a lot to it, but the benefits really open the door to a host of new applications! It looks like your skegs may stick around awhile. 8)


Good to know, let’s hope so! thanks for that valuable info Roadrunner! 8)

Waverunner,
I’ll be interested in your results and look forward to reading about them!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:19 pm 
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Question for Hobie:
Is flaming a step in the fitting of the Hobie self stick logo to the hulls?

The logo on my ‘14 Adventure lasted a few months before it fell off and I keep having to press the logo down on my ‘16 Oasis to stop it falling off.

If not then maybe it should be?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:40 pm 
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Update:
1 month on and 10 trips later the upgraded VHB taped skegs remain rock solid. Zero lifting anywhere. I've been dragging the kayak up boatramps and onto jetties with no regard for the skegs and have felt when they hit, but the Bond remains Very High! :wink:
They have been subjected to huge temp ranges as well, as we are in the middle of summer with a couple of 40C+ days experienced and my kayak is stored outside, upside down on a rack under a couple of tarps. The hull gets very hot.

The key to the good bond is proper prep with alcohol cleaning and the must do 'flaming' step, so thanks Roadrunner for that heads up. It looks like it has worked! 8)

If it continues to hold then the use of VHB tape on PE opens up many possibilities. It might even be able to repair cracks in PE as it stays flexible but strong.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:44 pm 
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Stringy, thanks for the update -- that's excellent news! One important takeaway is that the bond seems to be created by the flame treatment, regardless of whether or not primer was used. It will be interesting to see, in time, if this still holds true. I suspect so, since the tape probably has at least as good of adhesion properties as the primer.

Which VHB tape are you using? 3M lists a variety of tapes in at least 3 families.

Thanks again to stakeup for getting this topic going! 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:55 am 
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Roadrunner wrote:

Which VHB tape are you using? 3M lists a variety of tapes in at least 3 families.



My skegs just arrived and about to order the tape, so would love to know if there are different types.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:18 am 
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As per my post 5/12 I used VHB 5952 8”x4” sheets. You’ll need to check what’s available in the US but here in Aus I couldn’t get the 3M recommended tape for PE low surface energy bonding. There is excellent data available on the 3M website, though I’m surprised ‘flaming’ isn’t mentioned as part of prep.

Roadrunner wrote:
Thanks again to stakeup for getting this topic going! 8)

Agreed Roadrunner!
Staktup, I consider this one of the most useful mods I’ve done to my Adventure, so many thanks for your original post! 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:04 am 
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Reckon it would be ok to skip the primer?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:29 pm 
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WAVERIDER wrote:
Reckon it would be ok to skip the primer?

Probably. I primed one and not the other. Both are holding equally at this stage. The Primer didn’t seem to do anything and I could scrape the excess primer off with my fingernail.
The all important step is flaming and that can’t be skipped!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:19 pm 
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6 month update:
The kayak has been used at least weekly, and often twice weekly since fitting the skegs and dragged up boat ramps and onto floating pontoons.
The skeg bond remains rock solid with no lifting on any edges. There is no difference with primed/ unprimed prep.
In my commute this morning I had a 12-15 knot tailwind with 20 knot gusts. Before I fitted the skegs I would have only pedaled in these conditions but I was able to paddle the whole way, with only a few corrective strokes. The difference the skegs have made to paddling enjoyment is remarkable.
Just for fun at work I loaded the hull up with a 20kg dumbbell and we took it in turns to pick the hull up just by the skegs. It actually feels like the skegs are molded in. You can see the hull flex when pulling up on the skeg.
I’d have to say the bond is permanent.
In fact I could see VHB tape being used as a permanent fix for cracks etc (with the proper hull prep of flaming/alcohol cleaning) as long as there was a large enough surface area for the tape to bond to.
Image


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