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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:13 pm 
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While I was raising the rudder on my 2014 Revolution, the grey cord which attaches to the rudder broke. How do I replace and adjust it? I have some Dyneema and Spectra cord of approximately the same diameter.

I'd post a picture, but Photobucket, which I used for years to post pictures on forums, has stopped supporting third party image hosting, and I need to find a new service. When I find a new service, I'll post a picture of the broken cord.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:33 pm 
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The FAQ section has a wealth of info. Here's a link showing T&S installation including line routing and tips. https://static.hobiecat.com/digital_ass ... 1499662410

While you're at it, here is a broader list of topics that will make you an expert in no time! https://www.hobie.com/support/mirage-revolution-13/
8)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:34 pm 
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Actually, the correct manual for installing new rudder up and rudder down lines on my 2014 Revolution is the Hobie Twist-n-Stow Rudder System Repair Manual which is available at https://static.hobiecat.com/digital_ass ... 1500390916 . The Hobie Twist-n-Stow Rudder Installation Instructions which Roadrunner referred to in his reply are for an older or different version of the Twist-n-Stow rudder, and the instructions don't include complete directions for replacing the up-down lines.

While only my rudder up cord broke, when I opened up the twist-n-stow rudder unit, the rudder down cord is also badly abraded where it wraps around the drum, so I'm going to replace the down cord as well. It isn't clear to me how I adjust the length of the up and down cords at the rudder, since those two cords are just tied together with an overhand knot. After I complete the cord replacement, I'll report on how I got the lines adjusted. Or if I got the lines adjusted.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:58 pm 
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There is probably an easier way, but the following works for me for the up / down. This is particularly useful if you are cutting you own Spectra lengths. In that case, it's safe to cut enough extra length to have about a foot of line beyond where it exits the drum (you can trim later).

1. Route the up / down lines as directed but put a simple overhand knot on each line where they exit the drum. Don't tie the lines together.

2, Cycle the rudder up and down by hand. If movement is restricted in one direction, the opposite line needs to be lengthened. Untie the appropriate knot and re-tie it with an additional inch or two of slack.

3. When full rudder up/down movement is achieved, cycle it with the pull handles to make sure you don't have too much slack.

4. Secure your knots so they don't slip (or tie them together if you desire) You can cut off any extra or braid the tails together as appropriate.

5. (optional) You can shoot your lines and pivot mechanism with silicone spray to reduce friction and line abrasion, and facilitate ease of operation.

This method works for both versions of the T&S rudder assembly. Line routing to the T&S may be different, depending on year and model.

Directional lines are pretty straight forward. When done, the rudder should swing about the same (left and right) when using the control handle, and the directional lines should be snug (no slack) when the rudder is pointing straight back.8)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:35 am 
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Here's a description of how I replaced the "rudder up" and "rudder down" lines on my 2014 Revolution. Readers should remember that this is the first time I've done it. I'm describing how I did it so people who have done it a lot can suggest improvements to the replacement process I followed, for the benefit of other inexperienced Hobie owners.

(a) I cut two pieces of 6 foot long Spectra, and made a loop in the end of each piece with an overhand knot.

(b) I hooked one loop around the knot in the end of the black "rudder up" cord, and the other loop around the knot in the end of the black "rudder down" cord.

(c) I marked the end of the "rudder up" cord with a waterproof pen, so I would be sure to wrap that cord in the correct direction around the rudder assembly's drum.

(d) I ran a piece of 20 pound monofilament through each cord guidance tube, and used it to pull the Spectra cords through the guidance tubes.

(e) I ran the two Spectra cords through the hole in the rudder housing, wrapped each cord around the rudder drum in the correct direction, ran them through the holes at the bottom of the grove in the rudder drum, and tied the ends of the two cords together about a foot below the rudder assembly so the cords wouldn't slip out by accident.

(f) I tightened the nut which holds the rudder assembly together enough to partly close the rudder assembly, but to leave the cords running around the rudder drum visible.

(f) I set the rudder in the up position, pulled the "rudder up" cord through the rudder housing until there was some tension on the "rudder up" shock cord, and marked the Spectra cord with a waterproof marker at the point where the cord went into the hole in the bottom of the groove in the rudder drum.

(g) I set the rudder in the down position, pulled the "rudder down" cord through the rudder housing until there was some tension on the "rudder down" shock cord, and marked the Spectra cord with a waterproof marker at the point where the cord went into the hole in the bottom of the groove in the rudder drum.

(h) I pulled the Spectra cords further through the rudder assembly, lined up the waterproof marker markings which showed the point where the cords go through the hole in the drum assembly, tied an overhand knot in the Spectra cord, and then pulled the knot snug against the underside of the rudder drum.

(i) I tightened the bolt which holds the rudder assembly together enough so that the groove in the rudder drum was no longer visible.

The rudder up and rudder down cords work in my garage. I'll see if they work when I'm on the water this weekend.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:33 am 
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Excellent write up! Your method is much better and I will use it next time (if necessary). 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:49 am 
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pmmpete wrote:
(d) I ran a piece of 20 pound monofilament through each cord guidance tube, and used it to pull the Spectra cords through the guidance tubes.
Okay, had a very frustrating evening last night and just gave up.

Here's the deal, I have a 2008 13' Revolution with the rudder down line broken. It broke near the rudder and sucked up into the guidance tube. So now I have it pulled out of the tube, plenty of tag end to tie an overhand loop about 18" fwd of the guidance tube end. What's frustrating me is splicing in the new spectra section that's about 6'. I tied an overhand loop and attached it to the existing loop I made in the hull that connects to the rudder down shock cord. That's all good, but for the life of me pulling the new section through the fwd end of the guidance tube with 20lb mono tied just will NOT exit through the aft end of the guidance tube...always hangs up. Now I can remove the loop splice and can actually just feed the spectra just fine through the aft guidance tube entrance and with the fwd tub black plastic nipple removed get the line to feed all the way through. Then just slip the black plastic nipple back on through the spectra. Only problem now is I am unable to use the loop-to-loop connection. Now I'm faced with splicing with a knot, like a simple square knot etc.

Can I pop out the guidance tube to remove the aft black bulkhead nipple and run the spectra and re-insert? Super frustrating!

Also, I would love a more detailed explanation of how the whole system is serviced. I read through the Hobie pdf and it's missing so many details. I would prefer to replace all cords at once since the others are near EOL. The reach ability from the fwd hatch is very long. What happens when I remove the set screw on each handle, will the assembly just fall out of the hull to the bottom of the boat? I would think the best way to replace all cords is to remove the handle, remove the arm assembly and pull it all aft and out of the aft hatch. Install extra length lines, then pull the assemblies all back in and fwd.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:35 am 
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The replacement "rudder down" cord I installed a couple of years ago recently broke, and I replaced it. The whole process went faster the second time. It's a process I would rather not have needed to learn, but it's nice that it gets easier with practice. This time I realized that it isn't necessary to use a piece of mono to feed the Spectra cord through the guidance tube. Here's how I get the Spectra fed through the tube, and then completed the installation of the line:

1. First, I made the replacement "rudder up" line. I purchased a bunch of Hobie replacement 700 pound test Spectra rudder line material. I tied a loop about four inches long in the end of the line, using an overhand knot, and I cut off a piece of Spectra about 5 feet long, which is long enough to run from the heavy "rudder up" cord and shock cord and leave about a foot of line hanging out of the stern of my Revolution.

2. I reached in the center hatch of my Revolution and pulled the broken Rudder up" line out of the guidance tube and up out of the center hatch.

3. I removed the broken Spectra line from the heavy black rudder up cord and shock cord, and I attached the new Spectra line in the same manner as the original Spectra line had been attached.

4. I fed the Spectra line back to the rear of my Revolution. If your arms aren't long enough, tie a heavy sinker to the end of the Spectra line, feed the sinker as far back as you can and on the correct side of the scupper tube, and then raise the bow of the kayak and slide the sinker back until you can reach it through the rear hatch.

5. Bend the end of the guidance tube so you can see it through the rear hatch, stick the end of the Spectra line into the end of the tube, and push the Spectra into the tube until it emerges from the stern of the kayak. It feeds in easily. You don't need to use heavy monofilament to feed the Spectra through the guidance tube. Clamp a forceps onto the end of the Spectra so it won't slide back into the hull.

6. Replace the "rudder up" line in the same manner. It probably has almost as much wear as the rudder down line, so you might as well replace it at the same time that you replace the rudder down line.

7. Set your kayak on a kayak cart or a table, so the rudder can swing all the way down without hitting anything. Loosen the nut which holds the drum of the rudder mechanism in place until the drum can be pulled completely into view.

8. Feed the "rudder down" line into the rudder mechanism, around the back of the drum, and out through the rear hole in the rim of the drum, so when you pull on the rudder down cord, the rudder will swing down. With the rudder up, pull on the cord until the "T" handle gets pulled against the hull and is held there by light tension on the shock cord. You don't want the T handle to be hanging loosely and flapping around when the rudder is up. Clamp a forcep on the line where it comes out of the drum.

9. Pull on the "rudder down" T handle to swing the rudder down, and make sure that when the rudder is down you can get the rudder down cord into the jam cleat which locks the rudder down.

10. Mark the "rudder down" Spectra line with a Sharpie pen at the point where it comes out of the hole in the rim of the drum.

11. Follow the same steps with the "rudder up" line, routing that line around the front of the drum so it will rotate the rudder up when you pull on it. You want the shock cord to hold the T handle against the hull when the rudder is up, but not so tightly that there isn't enough length in the "rudder up" cord to allow you to lower the rudder. Mark the "rudder up" line at the point where it comes out of the hole in the rim of the drum.

12. Pull the "rudder down" line through the rudder mechanism until there is about 6 inches of line between the hole in the rim of the drum and the mark you made on the line, and put a forceps on the line to keep from sliding back into the drum. Do the same thing with the "rudder up" line.

13. Line up the marks on the two rudder lines, and tie an overhand knot in the two lines just after the marks. Before you tighten the overhand knot, remove the forceps and check that the rudder up and rudder down lines are operating properly. If they are, tighten the overhand knot and back it up with a second overhand knot.

14. Push the drum into its housing, being sure that the lines stay properly in place around the outside of the drum. Then tighten the nut to hold the drum in place. Operate the rudder up and rudder down lines several times and adjust the nut so it is tight enough to hold the drum in its housing, but not so tight that it interferes with the rotation of the drum.

And then you're ready to go fishing again.

There are a variety of pieces of kayaking and fishing gear which can break and screw up a fishing trip. I have a plastic ammo box which contains a number of items of replacement kayaking and fishing gear and maintenance items, such as an extra downrigger weight and line, Mirage drive parts, dielectric grease, drysuit zipper lubricant, and a spare trolling reel. I throw this box in my vehicle on every fishing trip, and hope that I won't have to use anything in the box. Because a broken rudder line can screw up a multi-day fishing trip, I now carry a pair of replacement rudder up and rudder down lines with me in that box, with a small crescent wrench, two forceps, a Sharpie, and a heavy lead sinker, which are all of the tools which I need to replace my rudder up and rudder down lines while I'm on the road. Now that I've had some practice replacing rudder up and rudder down lines, I could do it quite quickly at a launch site with the tools listed above.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:51 pm 
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pmmpete wrote:
5. Bend the end of the guidance tube so you can see it through the rear hatch, stick the end of the Spectra line into the end of the tube, and push the Spectra into the tube until it emerges from the stern of the kayak. It feeds in easily. You don't need to use heavy monofilament to feed the Spectra through the guidance tube. Clamp a forceps onto the end of the Spectra so it won't slide back into the hull.


pmmpete, thanks a ton for taking the time to write up your process. Very helpful for me and others. I went at it again last night and I gotta say, I would LOVE to see someone feed Hobie rudder spectra cord through the fwd end of the guidance tube and have it silky smooth slip out the small exit end at the aft end of the tube...yeah right? Really, it's that easy? To emphasis my situation I am not using Hobie spectra, I'm using a very similar slightly smaller dia 500# black/white cord form West Marine, it's smaller and stiffer and even with the end fused/melted to a point it still didn't want to come out the aft end of the guidance tube. Again, I can feed it from the aft end to the fwd end because I can simply remove the black nipple from the fwd end. So to feed it the way I wanted, I removed the guidance tube all together, removed the aft black nipple and bam, I was in business...this allowed me to do a real loop to loop connection from the control line to the operation line (splice). It's working great now.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:34 pm 
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niswanger wrote:
pmmpete wrote:
5. Bend the end of the guidance tube so you can see it through the rear hatch, stick the end of the Spectra line into the end of the tube, and push the Spectra into the tube until it emerges from the stern of the kayak. It feeds in easily. You don't need to use heavy monofilament to feed the Spectra through the guidance tube. Clamp a forceps onto the end of the Spectra so it won't slide back into the hull.


I went at it again last night and I gotta say, I would LOVE to see someone feed Hobie rudder spectra cord through the fwd end of the guidance tube and have it silky smooth slip out the small exit end at the aft end of the tube...yeah right? Really, it's that easy?


I don't have little black nipples in the stern end of the guidance tubes on my kayak. I don't know if my kayak never had them, or if they got lost someplace along the way.

The first time I replaced my rudder up and down lines, I used 500 pound test Spectra. It looks just like the Hobie Spectra, except it's yellow rather than gray. However, about a month ago I was fishing in deep water, and I suddenly lost control of my rudder. I didn't do anything unusual, and I didn't hit anything. When I opened up my rudder system, I discovered that the rudder down line had broken part of the way around the drum. I don't know why it broke there. As far as I know, that area of the line isn't subject to any abrasion. So rather than replacing the rudder up and down lines with more of my yellow 500 pound spectra, I bought some genuine Hobie gray 700 pound test Spectra.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Quote:
Can I pop out the guidance tube to remove the aft black bulkhead nipple and run the spectra and re-insert?


Yes. Push from inside or if you can grip from outside at the rear and pull the tube out of the hull. There are replacement sets with line installed in them available.

There is a small o ring floating in there... can't imagine getting a line to feed through without removing the whole thing.

https://www.hobie.com/parts-and-accessories/?q=line&hPP=20&idx=ItemGroup&p=1&is_v=1

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:54 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
Yes. Push from inside or if you can grip from outside at the rear and pull the tube out of the hull. There are replacement sets with line installed in them available.

There is a small o ring floating in there... can't imagine getting a line to feed through without removing the whole thing.


Yes Matt, there is a tiny rubber o-ring which snapped when I tried to put it back around the inner sleeve of the black nipple. The nipple has 3 parts, outer shell, inner and a small o-ring which I imagine keeps the inner sleeve pressed backwards to the rear end of the outer sleeve. I had to both push the tube from the inside and pry from the edges with a small flat-head screw driver.

You'll see below in the image the new down control black line exit is different, that's because the o-ring is gone. what I did, very carefully, is with a little CA and a carbon fiber tube I chased the control line and pressed the insert in and back as I inserted the tube from the rear. No the less, it's all good. Also, the 3rd party line is actually pretty darn close to the same diameter as the Hobie line.

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:15 pm 
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The o ring should be just around the grey line and able to move along inside the tube... like a little water dam. Moves back and forth as you steer.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:29 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
The o ring should be just around the grey line and able to move along inside the tube... like a little water dam. Moves back and forth as you steer.

Phooey. It sounds like I'm missing some parts. They must have disappeared the first time I broke and replaced my rudder up and down lines. I need to buy some more parts and re-install my rudder up and rudder down lines with those parts included.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:39 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
The o ring should be just around the grey line and able to move along inside the tube... like a little water dam. Moves back and forth as you steer.


Ah well that explains why it broke when I tried to use it incorrectly and probably why my install back is wrong, but it works, ain't touching it until next time.

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