Buying help Hobie 21

Hi.

I am totally new to this forum and to sailing. However I think that that I should learn to sail and I would like for my kids to learn as well. Powerboats have been my thing but it seems that cats can be a lot of fun!

So I am planning to buy this Hobie 21. I think it is an SE but please correct me if I'm wrong.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WuH1L2hZ6NGk6YK39

What would you say a fair price would be? It includes a good 2,3 HP Honda 4-stroke but no trailer. Do you see any obvious things that will need to be taken care of? Or what are your thoughts in general about this boat?
Sails and pretty much everything else is 7 years old. Obviously the boat itself is much older.

I know it is not really a boat for a beginner like me but I will be sailing it on a lake with only mild winds. Until I learn to sail at least

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Hobie Cat 21SE #376

The water marks on the hull would be an area of concern. It means the boat was left in the water for a while. Hobies are generally not painted with anti-fouling paint, so if left in the water, the water will eventually penetrate the gelcoat and fiberglass causing delamination and blisters. I would check that area really closely for soft spots.

Otherwise, check all the standard stuff - make sure the boat’s complete. Make sure there isn’t any major damage to the sails, mast, boom, tramp, etc. Make sure the aluminum parts aren’t heavily corroded. And check the condition of the shroud wires. Also check the fit of the crossbar taper pins (search this forum for more details). The 21SE (which is what that boat is) had been out of production for many years, so replacement parts can be hard to come by.

sm

Good advice. Thank you.

My main concern was the cracks around where the wings attach to the hull. But I will be sure to check the rest of the hull as well. If everything checks out what would be a reasonable price?

I was planning on leaving the cat in the water for the whole summer. Is that not a good idea with these boats?

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Hobie Cat 21SE #376

I've got a 21SE I am restoring now. Good, fast boat but heavy. 600pounds.

Don't moor it. You want it out of the water. That, you can figure out.

Cracks-the wings go into sockets and are SUPPOSED to be removable. You have 2 extra ports on each side, installed there to repair wing tube cracks. This is a common ailement on these boats. Usually, water gets in the sockets and freezes, cracking them. You then have cracks opening into the hulls. Usually, the fix is to open the boat up and repair the wing sockets where you can fill smooth then wrap with fiberglass. Sometimes you can fill cracks from within the sockets with a long stick and tongue depressor/paint brush/etc., and paint epoxy in, then sand it back open.

This one, they got tired of messing with it and tried to caulk up the wings in the socket (I think). Problem is, the wings themselves are not water tight. Some water will get in. So, you can repair the sockets or deal with them for a while. Without solid structure, though its only a matter of time until it breaks. They ARE reparable, if you have the courage.

The boat looks like its had a lot of attention lately-ish, bearing in mind I got mine after it sat in Central Texas for a few years in the sun. Mine has/came with bottom paint, but I checked every inch of it first for soft spots. I haven't actually heard of a 21SE with soft spots.

You have aftermarket spinnaker, snuffer, downhaul, sails, etc. lots of "stuff", with little left on it that's stock and thats not bad. Sometimes unnecessary and complicated, but hey, thats personalizing. The spray shields or whatever they are on the wings are a new one. Some parts are absolutely not available, but very few like mast or composite tip on mast. It shares alot with the Hobie 18, but a vastly different boat.

Questions, just ask. Love my boat, but its not a beach toy-you have to manage the weight and size of the thing. I can now rig mine from trailer in about 45 minutes, expecting to get it down to 30 with extreme tricks.

Chuck

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ChuckC
H21SE- 408

Reasonable price hinges on a few things, principally: 1) fresh sails -not older and blown out, 2) repairable (probably first), 3) hulls in good shape and no soft spots, 4) everything there 5) age of lines and wires;they might need replacing if not new.

I got mine for something under 3500, with trailer, 1 good set of sails, maybe 6 life jackets, 4 were decent, 4 hiking harnesses and 2 were new and new wing covers. I replaced standing rigging ($500ish), new lines, cleaned and repaired sockets. I'm very confident in it now and will finish off with new paint and a few more upgrades.

Is it missing anything?

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ChuckC
H21SE- 408

Sorry for all the posts...

My concerns are 1) set up for cruising, meaning it looks like black, dacron sails. Everyone I know is flying laminate. The originals were mylar. These LOOK worn, but I can't tell since they're black. The boat seems to sit kind of low in the water, but I don't know how heavy it was loaded. That use as a cruiser can be harder on it than as a racer, loaded up, lots of crew, etc. Still it's built like tank. The spinnaker pole, front net, etc. Is all not stock, but not necessarily bad either. Just indicates its been used a lot.

Good luck.

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ChuckC
H21SE- 408

Thank you for your posts!

This cat is special and has a story. The current owner sailed the boat from England to Sweden when moving back to Sweden after spending most of his life in England. Not a trip for the faint of heart!

So it is set up for long distance cruising for 2. Hence the "tent" for sleeping, mesh on the wings that include storage for water and food while sailing and a motor on a custom mount etc. The boat was completely renovated and customised about 7 years ago for the trip. 2 dry suits and harnesses are included. It has modern fat top Sails made by Doyle help to achieve over 30kt max speed and near 20kt cruising speed, spinnaker chute for easy launch and retrieval of the spinnaker. Lazy jacks and on boom bag make for easy mainsail handling. A righting pole is included.

It is supposedly very complete and still in good shape. I have not seen the boat in person yet. Seller wants $5k for it and has about $15k in it.

I would like to leave it in the water where I live but perhaps I can epoxy-coat the bottom of the hull to make it water-proof.

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Hobie Cat 21SE #376

If leaving the boat in the water (not recommended) you will want to use a bottom paint on the hulls. Otherwise, water will penetrate and eventually degrade the hulls.

But there are also other issues with leaving the boat in the water. The hulls and mast will be in constant motion causing wear at the hull-to-beam connections and wear on the rigging which could eventually lead to failure. Be sure to check the rigging often if you do this and try to prevent as much movement as possible (keep the shrouds tight, tie the mast so it can’t rotate).

sm

Ok, so the crossbar taper pins are already taken care of. These are tight since they were replaced by oversize pins.

I got a bunch of pictures of the wing sockets from inside the hull. Here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/WuH1L2hZ6NGk6YK39 They look ok to me. These sails alone cost over $9k 7 years ago.

From all I've read on this forum and elsewhere the owners of Hobie 21:s seem to be very pleased with them. So I have decided to buy this boat as soon as possible.

Thank you for your help.

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Hobie Cat 21SE #376

At last one of those sockets looks cracked. Some 3/4 have been repaired - but you know that. You can test them easily enough - fill them with water. It also looks like one of the hulls had standing water for some time, due to the algae growth, etc.

It's not a death nell - just go into this eyes wide open; there's work in front of you. I did the same, but I also have some limited experience with composites. I mean, it's likely usable now, but I'd plan on repairing the sockets sooner than later and find out if that's where the water's getting in or elsewhere. Since it's out of the water, inspect the hull real close for soft spots and/or blisters. THAT would be a big red flag because of the repairs being more complicated. On the sockets, I did a combination of coating the inside with a filled and dyed epoxy resin and wrapping the sockets from outside them (and inside hull) with carbon fiber for strength. Likely as not, all you'll need to do is epoxy-paint the inside leaking socket(s), then sand with a long sanding drum and fine sandpaper - if crack is extensive.

Good luck with it, though. Ask if you need anything. I'll see if I can't put together some tips I picked up when getting to know mine.

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ChuckC
H21SE- 408

That fill sockets with water test is a great idea! I will try that.

Fixing the sockets will be at the top of my list of things to do. Some wires will also need to be replaced since they are 7 years old.

I am also thinking about if it would be possible to add some reinforcements that would relieve the sockets of part of the load. I've seen pictures of newer wings that are just better engineered. This idea of having sockets inside the hull is not a good one.

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Hobie Cat 21SE #376

People engineer and re-engineer these things all the time. Capping the holes and doing more of a surface-mounted wing is actually Hobie's ultimate solution to this issue. Fiberglass is actually quite versatile and easy to work with, if not time consuming. For another take on this:
https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=64645
That thread has a guy who bought one in which they engineered exactly what you're thinking. Only, not sure if I'd weld on the sockets so close to fiberglass. It loosens the mechanical bond to the aluminum.

I'd think you could locate some bolt-on pipe clamps made out of T-6/6061 aluminum fairly easily for attachment points then you could hinge them. Since you're not exactly harming the retail value of the boat and there's no one-design racing class you seem to be wide open to modifications.

Whatever you do, share your journey with us; lots are learning about these older, yet way too fun boats.

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ChuckC
H21SE- 408

Personally, I would not do away with the in-hull wing sockets. They do have some drawbacks, but overall, the end result is a very clean design with only one support tube needed at each end of the wing and no extra hardware to snag things on. The wings and wing sockets are also engineered to allow easy trailering by just flipping the wing around and putting it back in the socket.

I would just do a leak check and then repair any wings that need it. As long as you’re reasonably comfortable with cutting an access port in the deck and doing a little glass work, the job is pretty straight forward.

sm

He already has the ports for that purpose, so literally the far easiest way to fix is just fix the sockets. Since its standard sized tubing, replacing the wings should be a matter of making friends with your local muffler shop or machine shop that has a mandrel tubing Bender and a handful of aluminum or stainless tube. Not cheap, but very doable.

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ChuckC
H21SE- 408

So I went to have a look this boat and ended up buying it.

The mesh showed signs of age or wear but there was nothing wrong with it. The hulls are in very good condition. A few very minor dings and a some gel-coat cracking around the with sockets is all. All sockets passed the water leak-down test and the wings were good. Some rigging will need to be replaced due to age but there is nothing wrong with it as it is. Sails look the same as new but we were not able to raise them fully due to conditions.

Currently we have freezing temperatures here in Sweden so I am looking forward to spring when I can try this big cat. It will be a great learning experience (I hope) for me and the kids.

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Hobie Cat 21SE #376