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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:38 am 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 7:17 pm
Posts: 55
Keep in mind guys that I run a small rental company. I do not have time, nor would customers tolerate me reviewing the entire owner's manual every time I rent a kayak. I steer lots of business to Hobie by renting Mirage kayaks. I am in North Carolina and I have rented the Hobie Tandem Island to folks from Chicago, Atlanta, and several locals who have purchased new TIs after renting from me. I know not attaching the clip to the seat is not an excuse, but had I known a better solution was available, for free, from Hobie, I would have gone ahead and upgraded my fleet (which I am doing now). It is much more intuitive to attach the new buckle correctly.

I understand the timing issue with releasing information, but my issue is that Hobie doesn't release the information at all to us, the end customers, unless it is brought up here on the forums. We have no access to review historical service bulletins, warranty information, free upgrade kits, etc. We have to research through this plethora of (invaluable) disorganized information to find out about upgrades buried in posts in response to customer complaints. My dealer is an outdoor sporting equipment store, and they do not have time to communicate to their Hobie customers about all of these bulletins from Hobie. Hobie should strive to be transparent to its customers and provide information efficiently to current and potential customers, not just to the dealers who are also selling all sorts of other kayaks, sporting equipment, t-shirts, etc.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:40 am
Posts: 927
Location: Blacklick, Ohio
Roadrunner wrote:
It's important to distinguish between product improvement and defective product. Hobie makes running improvements all the time. Whereas we'd all like to know about them ASAP, there are a couple of problems this creates.
1. Dealers need advanced notice to clear old inventory and order new parts / get training so they can actually have the new product available when the customer comes in for it.
2. Customers who bought their boats immediately before an improvement often ate unhappy about their situation all of a sudden because they didn't get the "latest greatest" version of that product.
So there can be more bad feelings, confusion and discontent if Hobie were to publicly announce improvements sooner than later. The point is that sometimes there are reasons and considerations that influence policies that we may not be aware of.

Defects are a different matter. The 2015 seat fastener is clearly NOT one of them and shouldn't be confused with consequences of customers not properly securing their gear. If Hobie makes an improvement and decides to make it available to previous owners at no charge (which is occasionally done as a matter of good will), that doesn't render the former product defective, poorly engineered, deficient or subject to recall. The 2015 "eyelet and clasp" is perfectly secure as long as the user snaps it in place. The only problem is, some users may be ignorant that it has to be snapped into place rather than merely looping the clasp over the eyelet. The owners manual goes over this in detail and specifically cautions about the importance of securing this to prevent the possibility of having the seat fall out. Additionally, Hobie has made a video (readily available on the Hobie web sight) showing how to properly install the seat using this clasp, again with a caution about the dangers of not securing the seat. Searching the forum also yields buckets full of advice on such matters and the consequences about failing to heed the advice. IMO, dealers also have some responsibility to go over the various systems and check out customers on their boats. Customers who bypass this benefit through mail order do so at their own risk.

The 2016 buckle seat retention has two advantages:
1. it is harder to screw up since it is more familiar to more users who don't bother to read their manuals.
2. The length if this piece is critical and the pre-made strap version eliminates an assembly step to improve the production process. This has no bearing on customers.

The down side is that the buckle is more difficult to secure one handed and still needs to be snapped into place just like the older version. Without testing it, users can get a false sense of security about the connection.So it's still not as "idiot proof" as riveting the seat to the boat.

Hobie rarely issues a "recall". The closest thing to that I recall was in 2006 when some models needed a drivewell reinforcement kit after Turbofins came out. That's a pretty good track record. On occasional defective parts, Hobie is quick and generous in dealing with this on an as-needed basis under their warranty procedures (again through the local dealer).

On a final note, the forum is a great place to ask a question, share an idea, solve a problem, clarify a process, bring up an issue that somehow gets overlooked elsewhere or just let off steam. Many of Hobie's improvements in products and procedures have come about through the forum. For those who choose to take advantage of it, an outstanding resource. Thanks Hobie! 8)

+1 :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:25 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 15089
Location: Oceanside, California
masonborowatersports wrote:
Hobie should strive to be transparent to its customers and provide information efficiently to current and potential customers, not just to the dealers


A good source of this information that is so old to me... I forget about it... all in one place is the FAQ sections. I have FAQs for Kayaks, MirageDrive, Islands, Fishing, Sailboats... A lot of what you want is available there. Keep an eye on (Top of each forum section):

Kayak FAQ: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=21

MirageDrive FAQ: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=60

Adventure Island FAQ: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=114

Tandem Island FAQ: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=117

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Hobie Cat USA
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:30 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:04 am
Posts: 21
Matt

Sorry to flog a dead horse but

Any news when these buckles will hit australia. My dealer didnt really know about them and advised they won't fita 2015 hobie.

I have made my own clip buckle. When chair is in goes around chair and the chair brace. Cost me 2 bucks to make :)


Apologies for poor quality photos
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zysqqtzftklh3 ... 4.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/51j6lyrp3ypf8 ... 2.jpg?dl=0

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:24 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 15089
Location: Oceanside, California
You can ask the office in Australia directly... some shipped that direction in September.

Hobie Cat Australasia
Subsidiary
Sailboats and Kayaks: Oceania, South Pacific, China, and Southeast Asia

11 Erina Road
Huskisson, NSW 2540
Australia
61-2-44-418-400
[email protected]

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:32 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:04 am
Posts: 21
Thank you Matt


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:53 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:08 pm
Posts: 12
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Can you post a picture of the updated 2016 Seat Retention Buckles and the old one from 2015?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:04 am
Posts: 21
yellow yak:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12574&view=previous :)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:03 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:32 pm
Posts: 21
Thanks for the info on the new seat clip. I carry a paddle float for safety with it partly inflated as it should be. I clip my paddle float to my seat, it has to be clipped to something so it might as well be a secondary security for my seat. I also have a leash on my drive. They both cost to much to have just one thing keeping them from going to the bottom.


Last edited by antadi on Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:08 pm
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Location: San Antonio, Texas
Thanks


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