Return to Hobie.com
Hobie Forums
It is currently Mon Aug 25, 2025 12:06 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:51 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:20 am
Posts: 6
What are the effects of putting the daggerboard in the revo 16 when NOT sailing?
I'm interested in trolling the chesapeake bay and am looking for a combination of stability, tracking, with long sweeping turns.
I'll be in flat water or swells up to 1 foot. I'd like to minimize opportunity for rolling when turning either with or against the waves.
If I have to pull my lines in while turning to execute turns quickly that's not really an issue.

I'll do some search on skegs to see what you all are talking about.
I like the idea of the outsized rudder, if that helps... but much more interested in stability vs. turning.
it it takes me 100 yards north and as many again east or west to make a u turn that'll work.
Thanks in advance.

Pete


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:37 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 3018
Location: Escondido
IMO, the daggerboard would not be helpful in your situation. Since the daggerboard resists lateral movement and the boat's center of lateral resistance is lower with the daggerboard, this would exacerbate a tendency to roll outboard with a turn (where the stern is moved laterally by the rudder). Likewise, in the case of beam swells or chop, the daggerboard retards the boat's tendency to "slide" with the swell, causing it to heel more than without it. Your best strategy would be to keep your seat as low as possible, keep any added gear as low as possible to lower your CG. Also, keeping your boat balanced, bow to stern, or "on its lines" gives the boat its maximum stability. More weight in the stern (fairly common with fishing gear) tends to destabilize the boat to the extent of the imbalance. If that's the case, drop some weight in the bow (as forward as possible) to counterbalance (a couple of dumbbells will do). This will also lower your center of gravity somewhat. Try it and see if it works for you. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:51 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:20 am
Posts: 6
Roadrunner wrote:
IMO, the daggerboard would not be helpful in your situation. Since the daggerboard resists lateral movement and the boat's center of lateral resistance is lower with the daggerboard, this would exacerbate a tendency to roll outboard with a turn (where the stern is moved laterally by the rudder). Likewise, in the case of beam swells or chop, the daggerboard retards the boat's tendency to "slide" with the swell, causing it to heel more than without it. Your best strategy would be to keep your seat as low as possible, keep any added gear as low as possible to lower your CG. Also, keeping your boat balanced, bow to stern, or "on its lines" gives the boat its maximum stability. More weight in the stern (fairly common with fishing gear) tends to destabilize the boat to the extent of the imbalance. If that's the case, drop some weight in the bow (as forward as possible) to counterbalance (a couple of dumbbells will do). This will also lower your center of gravity somewhat. Try it and see if it works for you. 8)


I knew I'd have an expert weigh in....Many Thanks!

First off my objective in this discussion is a trolling platform for the Chesapeake.
Get where I need with some speed (4 nm).
Slow her down to 2.5-3 mph while trolling.
Head back with speed.
I'll be picking my days for sure.
But getting where I need over a 'relatively' long distance is why I went for long and sleek vs. the shorter and wide fishing platforms.

When it's not being used for fishing the bay it'll be big flat water in upstate NY.


For the bay: I have the sidekicks for my revolution 16. Do I get benefits with the daggerboard or supersized rudder for tracking with sidekicks deployed? I wonder if anyone has ever even rolled a revolution with sidekicks deployed?
e.g. vantage seat (if there's even an option similar for a revolution) elevation.

thinking
-seat elevated (different ideas on how to get 'there' in a revolution) with nose into swells or going with following seas, daggerboard/rudder deployed
-seat lowered with daggeboard and rudder raised while turning.

also thinking ... daggerboard useless unless using a sail.
Thinking is deploy sidekicks and eliminate as much below water drag as possible when rough and in
Flat to low swell conditions...leave sidekicks in the truck.

Thoughts?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:47 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 1:27 am
Posts: 442
For non sailing purposes the hobie daggerboard is too big. You can cut one down or make your own, to say half the size. I use it when fishing to add a bit of extra primary stability when stationary. When travelling I will pull it and store under the seat, as its just extra drag otherwise. If conditions are particularly bumpy it will add more stability,making the boat less twitchy. Initially I thought it would heel you over, but it doesnt when travelling straight in messy chop. When doing sharp turns it can heel, much like a turning yacht, but this action is damped, it puts the boat more on edge helping you turn sharper but the dampening effect keeps you more in control and less twitchy.

Do not have it deployed in breaking waves for in the broach position it prevents you bracing into waves pushing you sideways/side slip, as per Roadrunners concern. In normal chop (not breaking) water is actually going up and down, its only the energy that moves not the water, so you stay more vertical than without.

If you have one just test it and see the pros and cons. Original hobie one is too long to conveniently store on board without cutting it down so more effort than its worth unless you are sailing. I just made one up out of an acrylic chopping board

If you fish it acts like a sea anchor when slowly drifting sideways to slow you down. If you anchor from the rear it will reduce swinging in the breeze.

I find it a handy tool in my arsenal as a fisherman and insert it if and when it adds any positive benefit. Its a tool no other kayak has so may as well experiment with it. Just be aware that it does add drag so dont insert it unless there is a reason to. It may replace the amas, which only get in the way


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:04 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:20 am
Posts: 6
WAVERIDER wrote:
... I just made one up out of an acrylic chopping board

If you fish it acts like a sea anchor when slowly drifting sideways to slow you down. If you anchor from the rear it will reduce swinging in the breeze.

I find it a handy tool ...


These are the highlights for me but all round reat advice again.
Thanks to you experts I don't have to learn from scratch!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:19 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 1:27 am
Posts: 442
peteoo wrote:
WAVERIDER wrote:
... I just made one up out of an acrylic chopping board

If you fish it acts like a sea anchor when slowly drifting sideways to slow you down. If you anchor from the rear it will reduce swinging in the breeze.

I find it a handy tool ...


These are the highlights for me but all round reat advice again.
Thanks to you experts I don't have to learn from scratch!!!


Always worth experimenting with at virtually no cost just to see if its handy for you. Just remember to pull it before you beach, especially if you have jerry rigged something up that doesnt swing back.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 5:05 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:34 pm
Posts: 294
Location: Central Texas
Roadrunner wrote:
A lot of users think the Revolution series tracks too poorly to paddle. This can be true. There is no skeg to speak of -- this is so rudder response can be enhanced. On the other hand, the Revos can be easily set up to track flawlessly. Below is an example -- a Revo 11 paddled for over 1 1/2 hours without once pausing to adjust the rudder. This includes all turns shown:

Image

The key is to use the rudder as a substitute skeg. In order to do that successfully, the rudder doesn't move, once set. Since the boats expand and contract with temperature, rudder lines can get slack. This is easily correctly by removing any slack at the starboard rudder connection with a Phillips head screwdriver. With the rudder locked down and straight, all slack should be removed and a little tension introduced. If the rudder handle still moves freely, a small piece of nylon strap (or comparable) can be slipped under the rudder handle to keep it from moving without input. All turns can then be handled by the paddle and edging (tilting the boat slightly away from the turn). The Revo 11 and 13 respond well to edging, the Revo 16 less so. Likewise, the Revo 11 responds to turns best because of its short length.

Any of the Hobie rudders work, but the large rudder offers better control IMO. My all-time favorite is this customized large rudder. It is clipped shorter than the small rudder, has outstanding shallow water capabilities and retains excellent authority with relatively low drag.

Image

Not only can the Revo 11 be made to track beautifully, you may notice it are pretty fast, even when paddling. It has a "sweet spot" between 4.0 and 4.3MPH where it really moves efficiently. Personally, I think this hull is the fastest 11' plastic boat on the market, bar none. I'm not a great paddler, but cruising at 4.3 was not difficult. If you do this, a suggestion (if you're not using the Mirage Drive) -- tape over the Drive well (plastic packing tape works great), leave a slit for drainage, and install the drivewell plug to prevent sloshing. Happy paddling! 8)

Roadrunner any ideas on what to do when in water that is too shallow to use the rudder? I just picked up a 2016 Revo 13 and took it out for the first time this past weekend. I was coastal marsh fishing and in many areas the water was less than 12" deep. The winds were steady at 15 mph so that played a factor as well but based on my first time out the tracking wasn't good at all to say the least. When I could use the rudder I agree it did help. Also turning to the right seemed to be an issue at times. Maybe it was the wind but there were a couple of times when I was in water deep enough to pedal and use the rudder (fully deployed) and could not turn right at all. I had to turn to the left in a complete circle then once I was moving in a forward direction was able to turn to the right. Is this normal?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 10:51 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 3018
Location: Escondido
Swfinatic wrote:
Roadrunner any ideas on what to do when in water that is too shallow to use the rudder? I just picked up a 2016 Revo 13 and took it out for the first time this past weekend. I was coastal marsh fishing and in many areas the water was less than 12" deep.
The rudder shown above should be good down to almost 8" of water. As you can see below, it is cut from the large rudder but is shorter than the standard rudder.

Image

Image

Without the rudder down, the boat is not directionally stable.

Quote:
Also turning to the right seemed to be an issue at times. Maybe it was the wind but there were a couple of times when I was in water deep enough to pedal and use the rudder (fully deployed) and could not turn right at all. I had to turn to the left in a complete circle then once I was moving in a forward direction was able to turn to the right. Is this normal?
Your rudder needs to be fully down and secured tightly by locking the rudder down line in the jamb cleat (shown here). If not locked down, the boat will tend to turn to port.

Image

Also. your rudder control lines should be snug -- no slack. Adjust at the rudder. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 8:34 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:34 pm
Posts: 294
Location: Central Texas
Roadrunner wrote:
Swfinatic wrote:
Roadrunner any ideas on what to do when in water that is too shallow to use the rudder? I just picked up a 2016 Revo 13 and took it out for the first time this past weekend. I was coastal marsh fishing and in many areas the water was less than 12" deep.
The rudder shown above should be good down to almost 8" of water. As you can see below, it is cut from the large rudder but is shorter than the standard rudder.

Image

Image

Without the rudder down, the boat is not directionally stable.

Quote:
Also turning to the right seemed to be an issue at times. Maybe it was the wind but there were a couple of times when I was in water deep enough to pedal and use the rudder (fully deployed) and could not turn right at all. I had to turn to the left in a complete circle then once I was moving in a forward direction was able to turn to the right. Is this normal?
Your rudder needs to be fully down and secured tightly by locking the rudder down line in the jamb cleat (shown here). If not locked down, the boat will tend to turn to port.

Image

Also. your rudder control lines should be snug -- no slack. Adjust at the rudder. 8)

Thanks! I have a sailing rudder on order. I'm sure that will help. I believe most of my issues were due to the rudder not being straight down. I didn't lock the rudder in the down position using the cleat since I was in and out of really shallow water (from 6"-12"). The Revo floats in really shallow water!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 11:32 am 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 3018
Location: Escondido
I keep the rudder down and locked at all times. There is enough give in the system to allow the rudder to ride up over any obstacle. The rudder pin is the designated weak point -- I haven't broken one since the Twist N Stow rudder system came out 14 years ago. BTW, the boats come with a spare rudder pin in one of the hatch lids. It's a good idea to verify that it's there. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 4:38 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:34 pm
Posts: 294
Location: Central Texas
Roadrunner wrote:
I haven't broken one since the Twist N Stow rudder system came out 14 years ago. BTW, the boats come with a spare rudder pin in one of the hatch lids. It's a good idea to verify that it's there. 8)

Good to know. Yeah I checked that before I bought it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 3:11 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 1:27 am
Posts: 442
Yep if not cleated the force of water will tend to lift it when you try turning it, hence the reason it only works effectively in one direction uncleated. You can simulate that on dry land but pulling backwards on the actual rudder blade when uncleated.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 3:57 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:34 pm
Posts: 294
Location: Central Texas
Thanks WAVERIDER. Makes sense. I did play around with it yesterday at home and learned what you're saying. I'll cleat the down cord in the future.

I bought the Revo 13 to replace a paddle kayak I had for fishing the marsh areas along the Texas coast chasing redfish. I really like how shallow this kayak floats. With me (at 210 lbs) and my gear including a fish bag with ice I was floating in 6" of water.

This is kind of getting away from the topic but with one modification the center hatch storage is actually awesome. I took pool noodles and inserted them in the hull across the kayak both under the seat and just behind where the pedal drive is molded in. This created an area for me to store stuff inside the round hatch. I used an old yoga mat and glued pieces of mat to the bottoms of my Plano 3600 tackle boxes to dampen the sound of me moving them around and to keep them from sliding around. I can now fit as many as 5 of these tackle boxes inside the hatch without the hatch bucket of course. And they don't go anywhere. Love it!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 7:24 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:09 pm
Posts: 156
My 2 rubber skegs that I glued on both sides of the stern keel on our R11 & 13 are going strong after 3-4 years. Lexel or Goop on one and 3M white marine adhesive on the other...

I paddle touring and rec boats quite decently and any winds over 8-10mph and these still haev trouble tracking straight, but do much better than without the skegs. I see there are removable skegs now- just adhere the track base to the hull and remove the fins as needed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 10:34 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:20 am
Posts: 6
Swfinatic wrote:
...

This is kind of getting away from the topic but with one modification the center hatch storage is actually awesome. I took pool noodles and inserted them in the hull across the kayak both under the seat and just behind where the pedal drive is molded in. This created an area for me to store stuff inside the round hatch. I used an old yoga mat and glued pieces of mat to the bottoms of my Plano 3600 tackle boxes to dampen the sound of me moving them around and to keep them from sliding around. I can now fit as many as 5 of these tackle boxes inside the hatch without the hatch bucket of course. And they don't go anywhere. Love it!


Pics if you've got some please !!! :D


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
© Hobie Cat Company. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group